So what was he supposed to do?

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now all the second-guessing of George will begin. Why didn't he attack
Boonen earlier?

When it came down to that final 3-some, I was racking my brain trying to
figure out what George should do. What it came down to in my mind was

that

Quoted message said:

there was no way he could win. Period. And he didn't. At least he

didn't

Quoted message said:

crash or flat or get third. But anyone who thought he might have been

able

Quoted message said:

to attack Boonen and Flecha in those final Kms and get away ... well,

you'd

Quoted message said:

have to be a half-wit to think they'd let him get away. All he'd have
accomplished was wasting himself and probably assuring a third place

finish.

Quoted message said:

No ... as I read it, George did all he could do. And congratulations to

him

Quoted message said:

for a fine second place finish. Oh, and to Tom for his win.

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

With more than a minute and a half between the lead group and the chasers,
George COULD HAVE attacked on the last section of cobbles before the
velodrome and still faired no worse than 3rd. But who can say that would
have worked. George got second, but don't you have to be willing to lose in
order to win? It sure would have made for more exciting racing, but then
again all I could do this morning was read the Cyclingnews.com coverage of
the race. I can't actually SEE what happened on OLN until about 3:00 this
afternoon.

Still, congratulations, George! You, Boonen and Flecha sure showed the rest
of the field who's boss.

"Philip W. Moore, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With more than a minute and a half between the lead group and the chasers,
George COULD HAVE attacked on the last section of cobbles before the
velodrome and still faired no worse than 3rd. But who can say that would
have worked. George got second, but don't you have to be willing to lose
in
order to win? It sure would have made for more exciting racing, but then
again all I could do this morning was read the Cyclingnews.com coverage of
the race. I can't actually SEE what happened on OLN until about 3:00 this
afternoon.

Still, congratulations, George! You, Boonen and Flecha sure showed the
rest
of the field who's boss.

Of course he COULD HAVE. Yes, it would have made for more exciting racing.
But would it have had any chance of producing a win? After seeing Boonen
attack PVP 9kms out last week to take the win, you'd have to conclude that
attempting a long attack against him was rather pointless. George has been
known to produce a fair sprint, though admittedly nothing compared to
Boonen. But I think he stood as good or better chance taking it into the
Velodrome as he did trying to take it from a ways out against two strong
riders. I believe Johan or Dirk or whoever was in the car must have seen it
the same way.

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

psycholist said:

Now all the second-guessing of George will begin. Why didn't he attack
Boonen earlier?

He should've tried a Boonen (from last weekend). Others have done it
many a time as we've seen: launch a substantial, successful attack, then
motor solo 10 seconds ahead of the pursuers. The "go big or take third"
approach.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

Quoted message said:

for once, I think hincapie rode a perfect race, he could not have done
anything to improve his chances, think about it, Boonen is pretty good
at that Museeuw style riding at 55KPH on the flats at the end of 6
hours of racing, you can't ride away from that, so his only chance was
the sprint.
He could have maybe tried to lead it out, but the odds were better
trying to come around him at the end anyway.

If two riders can ride 55 kph on the flats after 6 hours of racing, then
one of them can win by simply gaining a gap and maintaining. Flecha may
or may not have helped Boonen chase. Hincapie may or may not be (have
been) capable of it.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

psycholist said:

Quoted message said:

Of course he COULD HAVE. Yes, it would have made for more exciting
racing. But would it have had any chance of producing a win? After seeing
Boonen attack PVP 9kms out last week to take the win, you'd have to
conclude that attempting a long attack against him was rather pointless.
George has been known to produce a fair sprint, though admittedly nothing
compared to Boonen. But I think he stood as good or better chance taking
it into the Velodrome as he did trying to take it from a ways out against
two strong riders. I believe Johan or Dirk or whoever was in the car must
have seen it the same way.

Flecha seems to be the one who figured wrong. His only winning chance was
to initiate a break and he was certain to get 3rd in a straight up sprint.
George had to be waiting to counter Flecha's almost certain move, but it
never came. I think George, for once, played his best hand in this finale.
No one is going to beat Boonen in a situation like this.

--
<http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/12stringartmusic.htm>
new-age tunes, blues and more played on acoustic 12-String

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:45:57 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Now all the second-guessing of George will begin. Why didn't he attack
Boonen earlier?

When it came down to that final 3-some, I was racking my brain trying to
figure out what George should do. What it came down to in my mind was that
there was no way he could win. Period. And he didn't. At least he didn't
crash or flat or get third. But anyone who thought he might have been able
to attack Boonen and Flecha in those final Kms and get away ... well, you'd
have to be a half-wit to think they'd let him get away. All he'd have
accomplished was wasting himself and probably assuring a third place finish.
No ... as I read it, George did all he could do. And congratulations to him
for a fine second place finish. Oh, and to Tom for his win.

Did you find that you were able to pick up tactics more easily from being
an official?

jj

"GreenvilleArt" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

Quoted message said:

Of course he COULD HAVE. Yes, it would have made for more exciting
racing. But would it have had any chance of producing a win? After

seeing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Boonen attack PVP 9kms out last week to take the win, you'd have to
conclude that attempting a long attack against him was rather pointless.
George has been known to produce a fair sprint, though admittedly

nothing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

compared to Boonen. But I think he stood as good or better chance

taking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it into the Velodrome as he did trying to take it from a ways out

against

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

two strong riders. I believe Johan or Dirk or whoever was in the car

must

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have seen it the same way.

Flecha seems to be the one who figured wrong. His only winning chance was
to initiate a break and he was certain to get 3rd in a straight up sprint.
George had to be waiting to counter Flecha's almost certain move, but it
never came. I think George, for once, played his best hand in this finale.
No one is going to beat Boonen in a situation like this.

It's very hypothetical, but I think that Van Petegem could have made Boonen
nervous and forced him to make an error in the sprint. But to me it wasn't
very clear-cut anyway, since I thought Hincapie looked rather fresh compared
to the other two.

GreenvilleArt said:

psycholist said:

Of course he COULD HAVE. Yes, it would have made for more exciting
racing. But would it have had any chance of producing a win? After seeing
Boonen attack PVP 9kms out last week to take the win, you'd have to
conclude that attempting a long attack against him was rather pointless.
George has been known to produce a fair sprint, though admittedly nothing
compared to Boonen. But I think he stood as good or better chance taking
it into the Velodrome as he did trying to take it from a ways out against
two strong riders. I believe Johan or Dirk or whoever was in the car must
have seen it the same way.

Flecha seems to be the one who figured wrong. His only winning chance was
to initiate a break and he was certain to get 3rd in a straight up sprint.
George had to be waiting to counter Flecha's almost certain move, but it
never came. I think George, for once, played his best hand in this finale.
No one is going to beat Boonen in a situation like this.

Flecha won the Championship of Zurich last year in a bunch sprint. I
thought George was going to take 3rd for sure entering the velodrome
with those two.

-Sonarrat.

for once, I think hincapie rode a perfect race, he could not have done
anything to improve his chances, think about it, Boonen is pretty good
at that Museeuw style riding at 55KPH on the flats at the end of 6
hours of racing, you can't ride away from that, so his only chance was
the sprint.
He could have maybe tried to lead it out, but the odds were better
trying to come around him at the end anyway.

Quoted message said:

for once, I think hincapie rode a perfect race, he could not have done
anything to improve his chances, think about it, Boonen is pretty good
at that Museeuw style riding at 55KPH on the flats at the end of 6
hours of racing, you can't ride away from that, so his only chance was
the sprint.
He could have maybe tried to lead it out, but the odds were better
trying to come around him at the end anyway.

I've gone over that finish quite a few times in my head. No doubt George
rode a great race, and no doubt Boonen's virtually unstoppable. Still, I
didn't like seeing George in the middle position on the track, knowing that
Boonen's just going to drop down below him at any time, forcing George to
react. If George had taken off, perhaps he might have ended up 3rd with both
Boonen and Flecha coming around? I dunno... I really would have preferred
seeing George in 3rd position, swinging down in a way that might have hung
up Boonen for a bit.

2nd place. Not bad. But so close. Dang. Maybe he's just too nice a guy to
win? Or maybe Boonen's even better than Museuw, and nothing can stop him.
Great bike racing, maybe that's all that matters.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

psycholist said:

riders. I believe Johan or Dirk or whoever was in the car must have seen it
the same way.

I think that Johan would have been having some quite different thoughts
in the team car, given who Boonen (briefly) rode for...

psycholist said:

Now all the second-guessing of George
will begin. Why didn't he attack
Boonen earlier?

Cuz when Boonen's inevitable counter came George would have been
cross-eyed and swerved into a ditch taking Flecha with him...and that
move is so two years ago.

Quoted message said:

When it came down to that final
3-some, I was racking my brain trying to
figure out what George should do.

Not come in third place. That's what everyone in the team car was
thinking too.

Quoted message said:

But anyone who thought he might have been
able to attack Boonen and Flecha in those
final Kms and get away ... well, you'd
have to be a half-wit to think they'd let
him get away.

I think Flecha did well just to finish third. Everyone seems to be
forgetting that Flecha, presumably on team orders, took some huge pulls
after the final selection of 7 or 8 riders was made. Cancellara was
sitting in and was clearly their chosen danger man of the two. At that
point Flecha was not being saved for the finish and was delivering his
Ron Jeremy money shot to ensure the break would stick. When Cancellara
subsequently detonated only then did Flecha rotate off the front. It's
safe to assume he burned some matches that impacted his finish.

The real second guessing should be saved for Cancellara as to why he
didn't give Ferretti's henchmen in the team car a heads-up that he had
that stayfree less than fresh feeling.

But I digress - to answer the original question, "So what was he
supposed to do?" I've got two words: Pot Belge
-DA74

DA74 said:

The real second guessing should be saved for Cancellara as to why he
didn't give Ferretti's henchmen in the team car a heads-up that he

had

Quoted message said:

that stayfree less than fresh feeling.

dumbass,

cancellara flatted out of the break and never made it back on.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

It's very hypothetical, but I think that Van Petegem could have made Boonen
nervous and forced him to make an error in the sprint. But to me it wasn't
very clear-cut anyway, since I thought Hincapie looked rather fresh compared
to the other two.

It looked to me that GH was riding a little to the outside of Flecha in
the turn when Boonen turned down and made his run. GH wasn't quite
overlapping Flecha, but it looked like he had to ease up a bit before he
could turn down under him. If he hadn't had to do that, he might have had a
better chance to stay more even with Boonen (though I'm not all that sure
he could have won even then). Not trying to second guess - it was still a
great result. Those three were really strong, especially Flecha,
considering all the time he spent on the front earlier.

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"amit" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DA74 said:

The real second guessing should be saved for Cancellara as to why he
didn't give Ferretti's henchmen in the team car a heads-up that he

had

Quoted message said:

that stayfree less than fresh feeling.

dumbass,

cancellara flatted out of the break and never made it back on.

Yes, flatted twice in a short time (or had to stop soon after flatting for a
mechanical correction). So the first time he drops out of the Boonen group,
and the second time drops behind Wesemann/Van Bon, but gets back up to them
very quickly.
Cancellara looked very strong that day.

The Telekoms were ridiculous, riding bravado all day in the bunch and being
nowhere when the star break went. And Wesemann should never opt for an
intact cleat/pedal combination again, it just breaks his rhythm.

Alexander

amit said:

DA74 said:

The real second guessing should be saved for Cancellara as to why he
didn't give Ferretti's henchmen in the team car a heads-up that he

had

Quoted message said:

that stayfree less than fresh feeling.

dumbass,

cancellara flatted out of the break and never made it back on.

the cyclingnews live report is much better at providing details than the
oln coverage (thank you jeff 🙂 i noticed on oln they didn't mention
anything about cancellara having a flat (or 2??)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/apr05/roubaix05/?id=live
16:30 CEST
Flecha continues to hammer, but he doesn't know that Cancellara has
punctured! That's a disaster for Fassa.

16:32 CEST 216km/43km to go
Flecha now realises it as he exits the sector. Cancellara catches Coyot
at the end, and asks him to help. Cance is in full pursuit now.

16:34 CEST 217km/42km to go
Flecha continues to work - surprising. He could wait for Cancellara, or
at least not do any turns. Wesemann and co are at 55 seconds now,
peloton at 2'44.

16:36 CEST 219km/40km to go
We now have five leaders: Tom Boonen (Quick.Step), Magnus Bäckstedt
(Liquigas), George Hincapie (Discovery), Lars Michaelsen (CSC), Juan
Antonio Flecha (Fassa). Thijs, Cancellara, Barredo, Coyot and Brard are
chasing, then Wesemann, Van Bon and Hulsmans. Cancellara gets another
wheel change and is even passed by Wesemann!

h

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

It looked to me that GH was riding a little to the outside of Flecha in
the turn when Boonen turned down and made his run. GH wasn't quite
overlapping Flecha, but it looked like he had to ease up a bit before he
could turn down under him. If he hadn't had to do that, he might have had

a

Quoted message said:

better chance to stay more even with Boonen (though I'm not all that sure
he could have won even then). Not trying to second guess - it was still a
great result. Those three were really strong, especially Flecha,
considering all the time he spent on the front earlier.

In the second position, Hincapie could have overlapped Boonen from
underneath, requiring Boonen to make any move over the top. Hincapie then
could have let Flecha get a gap, Boonen to close it ( a nice move with about
400m to go).

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:tAu6e.7456$L64.7031@okepread07...

Quoted message said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

It looked to me that GH was riding a little to the outside of Flecha

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the turn when Boonen turned down and made his run. GH wasn't quite
overlapping Flecha, but it looked like he had to ease up a bit before he
could turn down under him. If he hadn't had to do that, he might have

had

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

better chance to stay more even with Boonen (though I'm not all that

sure

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he could have won even then). Not trying to second guess - it was still

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

great result. Those three were really strong, especially Flecha,
considering all the time he spent on the front earlier.

In the second position, Hincapie could have overlapped Boonen from
underneath, requiring Boonen to make any move over the top. Hincapie then
could have let Flecha get a gap, Boonen to close it ( a nice move with

about

Quoted message said:

400m to go).

Exactly, I would have let Flecha in front, George second, underlapping
Boonen in third, and started to wind it up with 400 to go, forcing Flecha to
go, and DEFINATELY taking initiative to have the pole/lower part of the
track keeping Boonen on my hip while passing Flecha on the outside and
running the razor on Boonen

Dave

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:02:26 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

It looked to me that GH was riding a little to the outside of Flecha in
the turn when Boonen turned down and made his run. GH wasn't quite
overlapping Flecha, but it looked like he had to ease up a bit before he
could turn down under him. If he hadn't had to do that, he might have had

a

Quoted message said:

better chance to stay more even with Boonen (though I'm not all that sure
he could have won even then). Not trying to second guess - it was still a
great result. Those three were really strong, especially Flecha,
considering all the time he spent on the front earlier.

In the second position, Hincapie could have overlapped Boonen from
underneath, requiring Boonen to make any move over the top. Hincapie then
could have let Flecha get a gap, Boonen to close it ( a nice move with about
400m to go).

Would it be fair to say that in prep for P-R racers should work on their
indoor track cycling and racing strategy? ;-)

Good point, though. I bet H was running through his velo-skillz checklist,
at 400 meters, heh.

jj