UK and Europe · Public discussion

Smart/Orange lies

Started by Richard Burton · · Last activity · 16 posts · 1,118 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
14 October 2003
Last activity
16 October 2003
Original author
Richard Burton
Posts
16
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,118
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–16 of 16
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Slightly off topic, but since one of the likeliest victims of these puerile lies is cyclists, I
    thought it at least slightly appropriate.

    Smart/Orange are currently running adverts on their webpages orange.co.uksmart
    complete total and utter b******s about mobile phones, claiming that hands-free is safer than
    hand-held. I am not aware of any research which shows this, but I am aware of reports which show
    that there is no difference. They may also be trying to get around the Advertising Standards
    Authority rules by putting these lies on their home web page, as it is not clear whether the ASAs
    rules apply to that. They also seem to be able to place "reports" in local newspapers, witness the
    Bristol Evening Post 13/10/03, which is just a not-very-well disguised rehash of the webpages.

    Smart and Orange are highly irresponsible, and are doing themselves no good at all by making such
    highly inaccurate statements and advertising.

    You can email the companies from their webpages.

  2. Richard Burton said:

    Smart/Orange are currently running adverts on their webpages orange.co.uksmart
    complete total and utter b******s about mobile phones, claiming that hands-free is safer than
    hand-held. I am not aware of any research which shows this...

    Direct Line published just such research last year: grn.esdirectline.pdf
    though they still found that driving at the legal blood alcohol limit was safer than using a
    hands-free phone.

    rospa.org.ukreport.pdf also concludes that hands-free is safer than
    hand held, while again pointing out that the distraction is significant.

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( juggler.netdanny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    speedy5.freeserve.co.ukrecumbents "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine

  3. Richard Burton said:

    Slightly off topic, but since one of the likeliest victims of these puerile lies is cyclists, I
    thought it at least slightly appropriate.

    Smart/Orange are currently running adverts on their webpages orange.co.uksmart
    complete total and utter b******s about mobile phones, claiming that hands-free is safer than
    hand-held. I am not aware of any research which shows this, but I am aware of reports which show
    that there is no difference. They may also be trying to get around the Advertising Standards
    Authority rules by putting these lies on their home web page, as it is not clear whether the ASAs
    rules apply to that. They also seem to be able to place "reports" in local newspapers, witness the
    Bristol Evening Post 13/10/03, which is just a not-very-well disguised rehash of the webpages.

    Smart and Orange are highly irresponsible, and are doing themselves no good at all by making such
    highly inaccurate statements and advertising.

    You can email the companies from their webpages.

    If you've ever tried using a non-hands-free mobile phone whilst negotiating a roundabout (or
    anything else that requires one hand to steer with, another to change gear/signal with) - you soon
    see just why hands-free is safer than hand-held use.

    Common sense, really.

    Please note, I'm not disputing that they're both dangerous. Just that indeed, hands-free IS safer in
    the situation above. If orange are claiming hands-free is safeR, not *safe* - then I don't believe
    they're being as innacurate and misleading as you claim.

    Velvet

  4. Richard Burton said:

    Smart/Orange are currently running adverts on their webpages orange.co.uksmart
    complete total and utter b******s about mobile phones, claiming that hands-free is safer than
    hand-held.

    It's true, though. If they were half honest they would say "less unsafe" and would advise drivers
    never to use a phone while driving, but they'll make more money selling less-unsafe hands-free kits
    to drivers especially with a handheld ban in the offing.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.uk

  5. Quoted message said:

    It's true, though. If they were half honest they would say "less unsafe" and would advise drivers
    never to use a phone while driving, but they'll make more money selling less-unsafe hands-free kits
    to drivers especially with a handheld ban in the offing.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.uk

    How will they enforce the 'hands full' law? I can't see how the old plod can cope. There still seem
    to be lots of people that don't wear seat belts out there.

  6. ouch said:


    How will they enforce the 'hands full' law? I can't see how the old plod can cope. There still
    seem to be lots of people that don't wear seat belts out there.

    There has been talk of mobile-phone cameras - triggered by the phone radio emissions - taking a
    photo of the driver and numberplate

    Tony

    --
    "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

  7. Tony Raven said:
    ouch said:


    How will they enforce the 'hands full' law? I can't see how the old plod can cope. There still
    seem to be lots of people that don't wear seat belts out there.

    There has been talk of mobile-phone cameras - triggered by the phone radio emissions - taking a
    photo of the driver and numberplate

    Tony

    It would still go off if a passenger was using a phone surely, imagine the admin. overhead sifting
    through each image to determine if the driver was talking on a phone.

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.

  8. Quoted message said:


    Offer them 50 per cent of the fixed penalty. They will be able to cope quite well.

    What a wonderful incentive for corruption!

    Tony

    --
    "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

  9. MSeries said:


    It would still go off if a passenger was using a phone surely, imagine the admin. overhead sifting
    through each image to determine if the driver was talking on a phone.

    No more than the admin to sift through speed camera photos to determine whether there is even a
    vehicle in the picture and then cross check the speed from measurements of the white road markings.

    Tony

    --
    "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

  10. Tony Raven said:
    MSeries said:


    It would still go off if a passenger was using a phone surely, imagine the admin. overhead
    sifting through each image to determine if the driver was talking on a phone.

    No more than the admin to sift through speed camera photos to determine whether there is even a
    vehicle in the picture and then cross check the speed from measurements of the white road
    markings.

    Tony

    Cameras triggered by speed ought to go off when the vehicle IS exceeding the speed limit so the
    checking involved ought to be worth it in the majority of pictures taken. As far as I understand the
    new law it will not be illegal for a passenger in a car to use a phone but the cameras have a much
    smaller chance of detecting a crime than with speed triggered ones so many more photos have the
    potential to be discarded because no crime has been committed so the admin becomes an overhead. The
    overhead is the time/effort/cost involved in being non productive, that is finding the duds rather
    than finding the criminals.

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.

  11. MSeries said:


    Cameras triggered by speed ought to go off when the vehicle IS exceeding the speed limit so the
    checking involved ought to be worth it in the majority of pictures taken.

    The emphasis is on the words "ought to" It is not a safe assumption.

    Tony

    --
    "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

  12. ouch said:

    How will they enforce the 'hands full' law? I can't see how the old plod can cope.

    Offer them 50 per cent of the fixed penalty. They will be able to cope quite well.

    Tom (police pensioner and things were never like that in my day!! : )
    --
    replace deadspam with btinternet to reply Tom Anderson Leighton Buzzard England

  13. Velvet said:

    If you've ever tried using a non-hands-free mobile phone whilst negotiating a roundabout (or
    anything else that requires one hand to steer with, another to change gear/signal with) - you soon
    see just why hands-free is safer than hand-held use.

    But that isn't why mobiles are dangerous.

    Quoted message said:

    Common sense, really.

    Generally I bad idea to trust to common sense, it's usually wrong.

    Colin

  14. Colin Blackburn said:
    Velvet said:

    If you've ever tried using a non-hands-free mobile phone whilst negotiating a roundabout (or
    anything else that requires one hand to steer with, another to change gear/signal with) - you
    soon see just why hands-free is safer than hand-held use.

    But that isn't why mobiles are dangerous.

    Rubbish. It's not the ONLY reason, but we're not talking about "mobile phones - dangerous or not",
    we're talking about "mobile phones - relative levels of danger dependant on hands-free or
    hand-held".

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Common sense, really.

    Generally I bad idea to trust to common sense, it's usually wrong.

    Given the above proves the point that common sense as applied by me isn't wrong, but you seem to be
    doing your best to misinterpret what I've said, perhaps you could elucidate on your problems with
    common sense?

    Quoted message said:


    Colin

    Velvet

  15. Velvet said:
    Colin Blackburn said:
    Velvet said:

    If you've ever tried using a non-hands-free mobile phone whilst negotiating a roundabout (or
    anything else that requires one hand to steer with, another to change gear/signal with) - you
    soon see just why hands-free is safer than hand-held use.

    But that isn't why mobiles are dangerous.

    Rubbish. It's not the ONLY reason, but we're not talking about "mobile phones - dangerous or not",
    we're talking about "mobile phones - relative levels of danger dependant on hands-free or
    hand-held".

    Firstly, I apologise. There was meant to be an "solely" in what I typed.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Common sense, really.

    Generally I bad idea to trust to common sense, it's usually wrong.

    Given the above proves the point that common sense as applied by me isn't wrong, but you seem to
    be doing your best to misinterpret what I've said, perhaps you could elucidate on your problems
    with common sense?

    Well, I seem to have a lot of people tell me that riding on pavements is safer than the road, it's
    common sense isn't it. Some of these people also tell me that I should wear a h*lm*t, after all it's
    common sense that a helmet will protect me. That's my problem with common sense. It is used all too
    often to argue against something when the evidence says otherwise. I now immediately treat with
    caution any statement which ends or starts with "Common sense, really."

    Colin

  16. Colin Blackburn said:
    Velvet said:
    Colin Blackburn said:

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:30:53 GMT, Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > If you've ever tried using a non-hands-free mobile phone whilst negotiating a roundabout (or
    > anything else that requires one hand to steer with, another to change gear/signal with) - you
    > soon see just why hands-free is safer than hand-held use.

    But that isn't why mobiles are dangerous.

    Rubbish. It's not the ONLY reason, but we're not talking about "mobile phones - dangerous or
    not", we're talking about "mobile phones
    - relative levels of danger dependant on hands-free or hand-held".

    Firstly, I apologise. There was meant to be an "solely" in what I typed.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    > Common sense, really.

    Generally I bad idea to trust to common sense, it's usually wrong.

    Given the above proves the point that common sense as applied by me isn't wrong, but you seem to
    be doing your best to misinterpret what I've said, perhaps you could elucidate on your problems
    with common sense?

    Well, I seem to have a lot of people tell me that riding on pavements is safer than the road, it's
    common sense isn't it. Some of these people also tell me that I should wear a h*lm*t, after all
    it's common sense that a helmet will protect me. That's my problem with common sense. It is used
    all too often to argue against something when the evidence says otherwise. I now immediately treat
    with caution any statement which ends or starts with "Common sense, really."

    Colin

    Aah ;-) inserting the 'solely' does totally change what you wrote ;-) Ta for correcting.

    I think the riding on pavements vs the road depends on a whole multitude of factors, so common sense
    doesn't really apply to that. Gut instinct might tell you riding on the pavement is safer, but it'd
    be wrong unless the road is diabolical, and the pavement long and has no driveways/junctions
    spanning it, for example - and gut instinct isn't common sense.

    The term 'tis common sense, isn't it' is far too widely used these days I think to include the 'I
    heard it from so and so, must be true, right?' stuff - rather than them having thought about it and
    reached a conclusion themselves (which was what my point of view was).

    Looking both ways before crossing a road is common sense (if you don't do it, you're likely to end
    up splatted). Cycling with lights on your bike after dark is common sense (don't do it and you won't
    be seen). Everyone knows those two are 'common sense'. Cycling with a helmet - that's a more
    difficult one, and not common sense. The proof isn't there yet, IMO, and I think unless something is
    obvious to the lay-person upon thought, OR something has been widely proven to be the case AND
    accepted by a large majority to be the case, it cannot be viewed as 'common sense'.

    Enough rambling on this ;-) I'm off to take photos of my brother gliding ;-)

    Velvet

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.