Slagging off cyclists article.

spindrift said:

Unlikely source:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4788f4e2-8112-11dc-9f14-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

Proper rules for cyclists
By Richard Tomkins

Published: October 26 2007 18:34 | Last updated: October 26 2007 18:34

Some while ago I read a newspaper story saying male cyclists who rode
a lot risked impotence because of the damaging effect of the saddle on
their reproductive organs. It quite made my day. In my opinion,
anything that stops cyclists breeding is to be welcomed as an
unmitigated good.

I hate cyclists. At least, I hate the ones I see in London every day.
Outwardly, they may appear to be nice, respectable, law-abiding,
middle-class people, and perhaps they normally are. But the moment
they straddle their bikes, something snaps.

It is not just the self-righteousness that gets to them. It is a deep-
seated sense of injustice. On the one hand, they feel smug and
superior, yet on the other, they are constantly humiliated by the
knowledge of their acute vulnerability. The unfairness of it all fills
them with such outrage that they turn into complete nutters, gripped
by a desire for vengeance on a world that has wronged them so cruelly.

Their contempt for the law is breathtaking. They routinely ignore red
traffic lights, menacing pedestrians crossing the road when it ought
to be safe. They cycle the wrong way along one-way streets, notably
outside our local primary school where they play dodge 'em with the
parents and children every morning. They race over pedestrian
crossings and along the pavements whenever it suits them, the more
aggressive of them screaming abuse at anyone who gets in their way.
Yet heaven help anyone, car driver or pedestrian, who strays even
momentarily into a cycle lane.

I crash red lights a lot. It always interests me when this one is
brought up.

I am a real slave to convention, the dream citizen when it come to
following rules, normally. I will never get a parking ticket simply
because I wont park on yellow lines. Same goes for speeding fines.

But when it comes to red lights on my bike.... To me there are a number
of considerations. Firstly is my desire to stay ahead of the lunatic who
has pulled up next to me after I stopped and is likely to turn left
without even indicating. (I never undertake cars in traffic leading up
to traffic lights myself). Secondly, some junctions are too tight for a
car and a bike to take safely together when turning. I wanna be ahead of
the 4 wheeled guy. Lastly, and correct me if I am wrong, my machine
simply doesn't trip the thingies that tell the lights to change when I
come to lights without a car being there.

Brian.

"Brian Robertson" <brian@[nospam].com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I crash red lights a lot. It always interests me when this one is brought
up.

I am a real slave to convention, the dream citizen when it come to
following rules, normally. I will never get a parking ticket simply
because I wont park on yellow lines. Same goes for speeding fines.

But when it comes to red lights on my bike.... To me there are a number of
considerations. Firstly is my desire to stay ahead of the lunatic who has
pulled up next to me after I stopped and is likely to turn left without
even indicating. (I never undertake cars in traffic leading up to traffic
lights myself). Secondly, some junctions are too tight for a car and a
bike to take safely together when turning. I wanna be ahead of the 4
wheeled guy.

No need to run red lights to avoid those two problems. You need to learn
about road positioning - get yourself out of the gutter, and well into the
middle of the road. People will stop behind you, and that solves both of
those.
(if you arrive after the cars you can pass them and stop in front of them -
whether this is sensible depends a bit on where you are and how fast you
are).

Quoted message said:

Lastly, and correct me if I am wrong, my machine simply doesn't trip the
thingies that tell the lights to change when I come to lights without a
car being there.

If they don't trip, they're broken and you should tell the local highways
people. I believe people have had success with this.

clive

In article <[email hidden]>, marc
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 6 Nov, 12:46, spindrift <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I pay car tax

Not since 1936 you haven't

You're thinking of road tax.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Robertson
brian@[nospam].com says...

Quoted message said:

But when it comes to red lights on my bike.... To me there are a number
of considerations. Firstly is my desire to stay ahead of the lunatic who
has pulled up next to me after I stopped and is likely to turn left
without even indicating. (I never undertake cars in traffic leading up
to traffic lights myself). Secondly, some junctions are too tight for a
car and a bike to take safely together when turning. I wanna be ahead of
the 4 wheeled guy.

So position yourself in a way that stops cars squeezing alongside -
that's one of the fundamentals of safe cycling, and your ignorance of it
suggests that your knowledge of cyclecraft is generally inadequate.

Quoted message said:

Lastly, and correct me if I am wrong, my machine
simply doesn't trip the thingies that tell the lights to change when I
come to lights without a car being there.

If there's no other traffic and you've been waiting a while then you're
entitled to proceed (cautiously) because you can reasonably conclude
that the light is defective.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Robertson
brian@[nospam].com says...

Quoted message said:

But when it comes to red lights on my bike.... To me there are a number
of considerations. Firstly is my desire to stay ahead of the lunatic who
has pulled up next to me after I stopped and is likely to turn left
without even indicating. (I never undertake cars in traffic leading up
to traffic lights myself). Secondly, some junctions are too tight for a
car and a bike to take safely together when turning. I wanna be ahead of
the 4 wheeled guy.

So position yourself in a way that stops cars squeezing alongside -
that's one of the fundamentals of safe cycling, and your ignorance of it
suggests that your knowledge of cyclecraft is generally inadequate.

road postion seems to have more effect on visablity than any thing else.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lastly, and correct me if I am wrong, my machine
simply doesn't trip the thingies that tell the lights to change when I
come to lights without a car being there.

If there's no other traffic and you've been waiting a while then you're
entitled to proceed (cautiously) because you can reasonably conclude
that the light is defective.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
Merriman
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

road postion seems to have more effect on visablity than any thing else.

As in "I saw the cyclist as he bounced off my bonnet"? (As opposed to
"I didn't see the cyclist lying in the gutter."😉
:-)

Clive George said:

"Brian Robertson" <brian@[nospam].com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lastly, and correct me if I am wrong, my machine simply doesn't trip
the thingies that tell the lights to change when I come to lights
without a car being there.

If they don't trip, they're broken and you should tell the local
highways people. I believe people have had success with this.

And others complete failure. There is one notorious example in Ipswich.

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
Merriman
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

road postion seems to have more effect on visablity than any thing else.

As in "I saw the cyclist as he bounced off my bonnet"? (As opposed to
"I didn't see the cyclist lying in the gutter."😉
:-)

not quite what i had in mind...

:-)

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Brian Robertson [email protected] said:

I crash red lights a lot. It always interests me when this one is
brought up.

I am a real slave to convention, the dream citizen when it come to
following rules, normally. I will never get a parking ticket simply
because I wont park on yellow lines. Same goes for speeding fines.

But when it comes to red lights on my bike.... To me there are a number
of considerations. Firstly is my desire to stay ahead of the lunatic who
has pulled up next to me after I stopped and is likely to turn left
without even indicating. (I never undertake cars in traffic leading up
to traffic lights myself). Secondly, some junctions are too tight for a
car and a bike to take safely together when turning. I wanna be ahead of
the 4 wheeled guy. Lastly, and correct me if I am wrong, my machine
simply doesn't trip the thingies that tell the lights to change when I
come to lights without a car being there.

What efforts have you made to have cyclists legally exempted from
obeying traffic lights? If, as I suspect, the answer is none, then
please don't try justifying your law-breaking. Instead, learn to ride
your bike.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Clive George twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lastly, and correct me if I am wrong, my machine simply doesn't trip the
thingies that tell the lights to change when I come to lights without a
car being there.

If they don't trip, they're broken and you should tell the local highways
people. I believe people have had success with this.

There's an interesting variation of this on my morning commute. The
lights are pretty much always red as I approach, however they with switch
through to green as I trigger the sensors. However this won't happen in
one of two circumstances :-

[1] If you approach the lights using the cyclelane (seemingly you are
then outside of where the sensors are looking!).
[2] If a car is approaching from one of the other directions at the same
time as I approach, then the lights never change unless I turn around
and have another go!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

marc said:

CoyoteBoy said:

Quoted message said:

I wonder if I'll get a response...

Quoted message said:

If you do please post it!

But snipped.

Posted on google, it hides it nicely - i get sloppy at times, sorry!

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 18:23:50 -0000 someone who may be "p.k."
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Vehicle tax" is as incorrect as well.

But not only is it common usage official government advice uses the term -

I made a point about then veracity of government statements, but it
was snipped. Nice try, but I refer readers to my earlier point.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Lloyd said:

Interesting bit at the bottom, the 'What would you change' essay
competition. Personally, I'd get rid of biggotted jounalists who come
out with such unsubstantiated diatribes.

Obviously, your use of "unsubstantiated" may well mean no more than that
the phenomenon has not (yet) been the subject of scientific enquiry and a
learned thesis. However, that particular "unsubstantiated diatribe" does
no more than describe what hundreds of thousands of Inner (particularly
Central) London pedestrians experience every working day. Far from being a
diatribe or "biggotted" [sic], it seems a mild and accurate depiction of
the everyday story of urban folk.

Do you have quantative proof of this?

David Lloyd

"spindrift" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My email to [email hidden]

I don't think your article is helpful or constructive or will make the
roads any safer, enough witless drivers share your antipathy toward
cyclists who have done nothing wrong and use their vehicles as weapons
against them.

Unfortunately, what he exhibits towards cyclists is not apathy, it is
malevolance. If it was apathy, he wouldn't write to express an opinion
either for or against.

David Lloyd

David Lloyd said:

"spindrift" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My email to [email hidden]

I don't think your article is helpful or constructive or will make
the roads any safer, enough witless drivers share your antipathy
toward cyclists who have done nothing wrong and use their vehicles
as weapons against them.

Unfortunately, what he exhibits towards cyclists is not apathy, it is
malevolance. If it was apathy, he wouldn't write to express an opinion
either for or against.

Antipathy isn't the same as Apathy

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Dylan Smith said:

JNugent said:

London registration scheme for bicycles. Obviously, that would be an
essential step if the institutional law-breaking by a particular
cohort of cyclists (the writer described them) is ever to be stopped.

It won't work - I don't know a single driver who doesn't routinely break
the speed limit, despite licensing and registration of vehicles.

Just because you hang around with law-breakers does not mean that
everyone drives as badly as your acquaintances. Driving over the speed
limit may well be very common. It is not, however, routine among all
drivers.

One problem with speed limits, like so many other traffic laws, is
simply that they are so poorly enforced that drivers can get away with
speeding for a long time.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Ekul Namsob said:

Dylan Smith said:

JNugent said:

London registration scheme for bicycles. Obviously, that would be an
essential step if the institutional law-breaking by a particular
cohort of cyclists (the writer described them) is ever to be stopped.

It won't work - I don't know a single driver who doesn't routinely break
the speed limit, despite licensing and registration of vehicles.

Just because you hang around with law-breakers does not mean that
everyone drives as badly as your acquaintances. Driving over the speed
limit may well be very common. It is not, however, routine among all
drivers.

The vast majority though.

Quoted message said:

One problem with speed limits, like so many other traffic laws, is
simply that they are so poorly enforced that drivers can get away with
speeding for a long time.

Enforcement is not the answer. People generally break speed limits
because they don't think it will do any harm and most of the time it
doesn't.

It's much rarer for drivers to run red lights because it's obviously
stupid to run red lights. And it's not just self-interest: consider your
friendly neighbourhood zebra crossing. The vast majority of drivers stop
when someone wants to cross. I have not seen a single zebra crossing
that was enforced.

You should need only minimal enforcement if things are designed well.

Ben C said:

Ekul Namsob said:

Dylan Smith <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Driving over the speed limit may well be very common. It is not,
however, routine among all drivers.

The vast majority though.

Quoted message said:

One problem with speed limits, like so many other traffic laws, is
simply that they are so poorly enforced that drivers can get away with
speeding for a long time.

Enforcement is not the answer. People generally break speed limits
because they don't think it will do any harm and most of the time it
doesn't.

It's much rarer for drivers to run red lights because it's obviously
stupid to run red lights.

In my experience, it's becoming increasingly common. The amber gamblers
seem to have moved on to plumb greater depths. Much of the time, it's
not stupid to run red lights. Many of the lights in Preston would, IMHO,
be better running only at peak times, so great is the delay they can
create to an off-peak journey.

Quoted message said:

And it's not just self-interest: consider your friendly neighbourhood
zebra crossing. The vast majority of drivers stop when someone wants to
cross.

Hence my horror last Saturday.

Quoted message said:

I have not seen a single zebra crossing that was enforced.

There may well be CCTV that covers a good number of them.

Quoted message said:

You should need only minimal enforcement if things are designed well.

Indeed. In Britain we seem not to design things at all well where speed
is concerned. I rather like the German practice of putting huge great
trees in the road as an indication that it might be an idea to slow
down. It's more attractive than a speed bump and a lot easier to see.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

David Lloyd said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Lloyd said:

Interesting bit at the bottom, the 'What would you change' essay
competition. Personally, I'd get rid of biggotted jounalists who come
out with such unsubstantiated diatribes.

Obviously, your use of "unsubstantiated" may well mean no more than that
the phenomenon has not (yet) been the subject of scientific enquiry and a
learned thesis. However, that particular "unsubstantiated diatribe" does
no more than describe what hundreds of thousands of Inner (particularly
Central) London pedestrians experience every working day. Far from being a
diatribe or "biggotted" [sic], it seems a mild and accurate depiction of
the everyday story of urban folk.

Quoted message said:

Do you have quantative proof of this?

Quoted message said:

David Lloyd

Proof of what I have seen with my own eyes every time I have daytime
business in London? Proof of what plenty of others have also seen?

I don't have a "helmetcam" and I rarely make video footage with my
phone, so I suppose the answer is strict "no" (not that you'd
necessarily accept it if I did). But that doesn't make it untrue. If
you genuinely think it isn't true, I can only assume that you rarely
spend time as a pedestrian/PT-user in C London on a weekday.

In the meantime, ponder the recent public complaints *here* about
cyclists being nicked by the dozen for traffic offences in The City.
Was that because they were doing nothing wrong, do you think?

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:40:30 GMT someone who may be
[email hidden] (Ekul Namsob) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Driving over the speed
limit may well be very common. It is not, however, routine among all
drivers.

IIRC something like 90% of all motorists break the law in this way.
So, not all motorists are criminals, but a large proportion of them
are.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54