skills vs. stunts

Take a look at other sports like skateboarding, snowboarding and BMX.
There is no shortage of kids (and adults) willing to risk breaking
themselves in order to land tricks on huge rails. The only limit seems
to be the size of available rails.

I expect that as unicycling progresses as a sport, the size of rails
used for tricks is going to keep increasing.

--
domesticated ape

i like bananas, monkey nuts and grapes
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I agree with the ape. Every extreme sport relies on people falling,
getting up, and trying again

--
koebwil

"I used to eat erasers in grade school...." James_Potter
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it's skills and of course guts.. but guts alone wont get you far..

--
maxisback

Quiters never win, winners never quit , the ones who never win and never
quit are just dumb
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phlegm said:

I just received a copy of Defect last week, and it has some amazing
stuff. But I've started wondering where the line is between a 'skill'
and a 'stunt'. A 'skill' being that which can be mastered and a
'stunt' being the combination of risking a lot and getting lucky at
least once.

That doesn't sound like too bad a definition. Surely if someone were to
try to nail it down in detail there would be quite a bit of overlap.

In the competition event we call Standard Skill, the skills are the
"tricks" you do to earn your points (or not lose them, the way the
scoring works). So in that definition, tricks and skills are one. I
suppose the harder skills could be called stunts, though they each are
supposed to be fairly well understood, and have "standardized" point
values.

Skill can also be defined as a quantity of knowledge or ability. I have
the skill, supposedly, to glide down a very steep hill. But I choose
not to attempt the "stunt" of trying to make it to the bottom.

To me a stunt is perhaps something one attempts to do, but does not
have a sure outcome. This can apply to trying a difficult trick, or to
a public relations thing like a "publicity stunt" that may or may not
generate the appropriate amount of positive press or sales.

Depending on your existing skill or experience level, some things
should *not* qualify as stunts. For example, for me to walk the wheel
is ho hum. I've been doing it occasionally for 25 years. But if someone
who learned to ride yesterday tries to walk the wheel, that's a stunt.

Quoted message said:

For example, what about the huge stair rail grind in Defect with footage
of several of the nasty crashes? Yeah, it's pretty amazing, but is it
really a skill? Or is it just dumb luck?

Good question. Certainly it's a skill to make it down, and less of a
skill to make it halfway down, and even less of a skill to mess up at
the top. But if someone like Ryan Atkins has practiced on the same
staircase for months and can do it 9 times out of 10, I don't call it a
stunt anymore. For him. If I tried it, it would be a *stupid* stunt.

Quoted message said:

Is there a point where you draw the line and decide that you'll never
try something? Or, is my unwillingness to risk being crippled if even
only for a few months just part of my aging?

For me, I decide on a case-by-case basis. On some rides I'll try lots
of things, but on other rides, like Saturday's ride at Wilder (which we
both did), I'll try a lot less. Then because I wasn't wearing knee
protection, among other things.

(Okay, explanation of why: I have some poison oak that's just healing
on my knee. Friction from kneepads is the last thing I need, especially
since that's where I apparently picked up the poison oak in the first
place!)

According to your avatar area you are 30, which means you just crossed
the line. You are now officially aging, and being "chicken" is a sign
that you don't have brain damage. Be proud. Expecially since you don't
look anywhere near 30. I thought you were around 20 or so!

--
johnfoss

John Foss
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
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"Idiot America—where fact is merely that which enough people believe,
and truth is measured only by how fervently they believe it." --
Charles Pierce, in Esquire Magazine
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johnfoss said:

According to your avatar area you are 30, which means you just crossed
the line. You are now officially aging, and being "chicken" is a sign
that you don't have brain damage. Be proud! Expecially since you don't
look anywhere near 30. I thought you were around 20 or so. People over
30 will tend to agree with that, probably in a curve to match their
age, while younger people may not. 🙂

I just added my age today. I figured I should because, based on
appearance, people usually judge me as younger. In fact I was carded
for beer on my 30th birthday. 🙄

I guess what I was getting at with my post is that it seems that other
"extreme" sports are often portrayed as being very one-dimensional in
that the greats are all pursuing the next elusive and very risky stunt
to dazzle their audiences--I'm thinking of motocross backflips and the
like. This makes the sport almost a contradiction. I mean, people
spend all their time and energy trying to excel, and then they end up
crippled and unable to continue doing what they loved in the first
place.

However, at least with unicycling, there is so much more to the sport
than looking for ways to seriously injure yourself. There are great
unicyclists that will never even do a 1 foot drop.

--
phlegm
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phlegm said:

at least with unicycling, there is so much more to the sport than
looking for ways to seriously injure yourself. There are great
unicyclists that will never even do a 1 foot drop.

Agreed. But the same is true for mountain biking, for instance. Only
the top teensy percentage of mountain bikers are the ones we see on TV,
whether it be doing BMX Freestyle, Trials, downhill racing or whatever.
But those guys are usually the most interesting to watch. This is why
Dan Heaton's videos tend toward more Trials and Street riding than
plain old group MUni rides.

--
johnfoss

John Foss
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
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"Idiot America—where fact is merely that which enough people believe,
and truth is measured only by how fervently they believe it." --
Charles Pierce, in Esquire Magazine
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For me, I think the difference between freestyle and street is freestyle
being 'skills' and street being 'tricks'. (or stunts)

--
forrestunifreak

I do not believe in computer programers.
'My gallery' (http://tinyurl.com/bbf9x)

"If I am ever that good I will be in a constant state of crapping my
pants." ~ koebwil
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There definitely is a difference, as was pointed out, between skills,
which you can do somewhat consistently, and "stunts," or getting lucky.
However, if you pull off a really hard stunt, that's an indication that
your skills are at a relatively high level. For instance, a couple
weeks ago, I was riding freestyle. I tried backward seat drag with the
seat in front, and I went ten cycles of the wheel, then without
thinking about it, picked up the seat and rode out of it. I hadn't
tried to pick up the seat from backward seat drag more than three or
four times before, and not since a couple weeks previously. Since then,
I haven't managed more than eight cycles of backward seat drag, and I
haven't come close to picking up the seat. However, I certainly
wouldn't have been able to pull off the stunt had I not practiced
backward seat drag, and the pick up from forward seat drag quite a lot.

--
jsm

Help edit the Unicyclopedia!
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in evry extreme sport, there is always that goal, to achieve the
un-achievable, for example the big grind rail u are talking about !!

prior to him doing it, heaps of ppl would hav thought " no thats crazy
and impossible", well he has been determined enuff to show up wat
others have sed and in turn, show that it IS possible, with a little
bit of determination..

its all about state of mind, mind over matter, if u just go for it and
tell urself that u can do it, u just might do it, and most likely u
will!!

--
trials2k

Live and Die on a uni😉 **
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It's all a matter of perception. I'm sure if George Peck saw the muni
that was going on today he would consider it a "Stunt", but that is how
unicycling has progressed. Someone does something others think is
impossible, then before you know it, heaps of people are doing it (only
now it is called a skill- not a stunt).
mark

--
napalm

you wont do it...your SCARED!
"We are all racing towards death. No matter how many great,
intellectual conclusionswe draw during our lives, we know they are only
man made, like God"
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skill
1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed
through training or experience. See Synonyms at ability.
2. a. An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of
the hands or body.
b. A developed talent or ability: writing skills.

stunt
1. A feat displaying unusual strength, skill, or daring.
2. Something done to attract attention or publicity.

trick
7. A difficult, dexterous, or clever act designed to amuse.

I think with those definitions of "Skills" and "Stunts" it can be safe
to say that most of the amazing tricks pulled off by some unicyclists
are definately stunts, but are skills, but I think that defining them
as stunts cheapens what they really are, that most tricks are something
someone has worked hours to pull off.
Anyway, whatever they're called, they're amazing.

--
molab
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Hey,
I'm probably one of the riders you were talking about the "stunt versus
skill" in Defect. In my opinion, you would be relating that to most
street riders. I think that everything we do is skill. I mean it
takes skill to do a 360, it also takes skill to hop a 6 set. You
wouldnt be able to do a 360 down a 6 set without both skills. So I
guess the "stunts" you are talking about are kind of a mixture between
skills. Also, when grinding rails, theres a lot that happens. You
have to get used to the run-up, the height of the rail, the length of
the rail, and the speed at which youre going to be sliding, and then
the landing. In saying that, every handrail out there is different.
Grinding a big handrail isn't going to be achieved every time you try
it. The idea of trying a trick 10 times isn't to try to get lucky, its
to get used to the conditions in which you are riding. Part of the
skill of street riding is being able to do this. I bet if you got Mike
to try that rail right after he landed it, he would land it again,
because he knew how to do it. Thats just a guess. Anyways, I guess
that's what I have to say. And also, you wouldn't be able to take
absolutely any rider and have imj jump on a 16 set rail and have him
land it potentially before Mike simply because of the laws of
probability or landing a "stunt". There is certainly skill involved.
There ya go!

Kevin McMullin

--
tugboat

"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
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