Sinn Fein Official Found Dead

Should death be the punishment administered by the IRA for informing???

In a word - no.
But as ever there is a qualification.

For years MI6 and MI5 (British Security Services) have attempted to infiltrate
Sinn Fein/IRA.
MI6 and MI5 have managed to infiltrate parts of Sinn Fein and the IRA.
The british never comment about the extent of this infiltration - they claim that such infiltration saves lives.
However, it is known that MI6 and MI5 funded and supplied information to Loyalist terrorist organisations - who carried out bombings and murder of nationalist (Catholic) people.
So MI6 and MI5 don't come to this affair with clean hands.

Going back to the Civil War - people deemed to have informed were shot by their "comrades".
I am not excusing murder - I am simply stating what happened previously.

I don't know what Donaldson did or did not do.
He did confess publicly that he spied for the MI5 and MI6 on Sinn Fein/IRA for over 20 years.
The IRA Constitution - Green Book - states that those of it's members who break their secrecy are authorised to be executed (I'm only repeating what the IRA itself, states as it's policy).

The Northern Ireland Assemby - was brought down in 2002 when the NI police raided Stormont (parliament building) on the pretext that the IRA had surveillance equipment in situ.
Following that raid, all sorts of allegations were made - one of which "outed"
Donaldson as being a spy.

I don't agree with any murder - regardless.

[font=Comic Sans MS]This is an interesting subject for me..... Even over here in certain pubs this subject of SinnFein/IRA/Protestant will get more then an argument started. I was in a bar in chicago about 20 years ago on st.Paddys Day when late in the drinking festivities someone started a "donation jar" passed around to raise funds for the cause.... The jar was filled with money and not just $1 bills..... It looked as if easily $1000's were raised ..
The next day we went back for lunch and I questioned my friend if the money would actually reach the people it was intended for ..... he looked at me like I just swiped money from the offering at the Vatican......

As you say murder is just wrong. But I could maintain a friendship with someone who was murderer, but I could never be friends with someone who could turn on his friends.

The article I read covered just the basics, but I can imagine in your area that the news is in more depth.
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wolfix said:

[font=Comic Sans MS]This is an interesting subject for me..... Even over here in certain pubs this subject of SinnFein/IRA/Protestant will get more then an argument started. I was in a bar in chicago about 20 years ago on st.Paddys Day when late in the drinking festivities someone started a "donation jar" passed around to raise funds for the cause.... The jar was filled with money and not just $1 bills..... It looked as if easily $1000's were raised ..
The next day we went back for lunch and I questioned my friend if the money would actually reach the people it was intended for ..... he looked at me like I just swiped money from the offering at the Vatican......

As you say murder is just wrong. But I could maintain a friendship with someone who was murderer, but I could never be friends with someone who could turn on his friends.

The article I read covered just the basics, but I can imagine in your area that the news is in more depth.
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The news coverage of this death is extensive.
Gerry Adams (president of Sinn Fein) and Martin McGuinness have condemned the murder of this man.
Is their condemnation genuine?

From the Provos viewpoint - Donaldson by admitting that he had informed during the 1980/90's (which was the height of the IRA campaign), this would be a very sore point given that the "war" was at it's fiercest in that time.

To have a top ranking official informing on them would be a matter of grave concern.

It's a very murky business : smoke and mirrors used on both sides.
With the truth somewhere in the middle.

As regards collections in the USA - the US funded a huge amount of what Sinn Fein and the IRA did.
People contributed to "the cause".
I am not sure how well informed those donors were : some Irish-Americans I know would have a perception of NI that was based on historical rather than current circumstances.

No doubt that for the majority of them the "cause" is more historical romance.... However, in a few communities in several larger cities the Irish community has known to have very strong ties to Ireland. I know our US government has attempted to prevent the fund raising that has gone on with resistence from several in Congress and the Senate.
I try and avoid most of the forums stuff about the US vs Europe because I have always thought of the US as just an extension of Europe. But what I know is true here in the states is that the American Irish have never really left home. The Italians/Greeks/ whatever..... They still maintain their countrys cultures, but they think if themselves as Americans first.....
The Irish??? They leave me with the impression that they consider themselves as Irish forever..... I came from a neighborhood that was pure Catholic. We had Irish, Hispanic, German, Italian, and a mixture of everything. But the Irish families were the leaders. They had an extensive family background in priests and nuns....... And in my neighborhood , we never dreamed of growing up as doctors and lawyers as other neighborhoods did. We looked up to the priests.
I come from a background of German/Irish which is real common in my area of the country.

wolfix said:

No doubt that for the majority of them the "cause" is more historical romance.... However, in a few communities in several larger cities the Irish community has known to have very strong ties to Ireland. I know our US government has attempted to prevent the fund raising that has gone on with resistence from several in Congress and the Senate.
I try and avoid most of the forums stuff about the US vs Europe because I have always thought of the US as just an extension of Europe. But what I know is true here in the states is that the American Irish have never really left home. The Italians/Greeks/ whatever..... They still maintain their countrys cultures, but they think if themselves as Americans first.....
The Irish??? They leave me with the impression that they consider themselves as Irish forever..... I came from a neighborhood that was pure Catholic. We had Irish, Hispanic, German, Italian, and a mixture of everything. But the Irish families were the leaders. They had an extensive family background in priests and nuns....... And in my neighborhood , we never dreamed of growing up as doctors and lawyers as other neighborhoods did. We looked up to the priests.
I come from a background of German/Irish which is real common in my area of the country.

Agreed : having spoken to several Irish Americans - their view of Ireland is the romanticised view ie. John Wayne/Maureen O'Hara, Quiet Man variety.
And this must also corralate to views about NI.
Having said that - if I was born and reared in Belfast, I couldn't say that I wouldn't have joined up.
The situation up there in the late 1960's and 1970's was terrible if you were a
Catholic/Nationalist.
The entire system was against you - you were disciminated in jobs, social housing, education.
Throw in the fact that you could be interned without charge - it is not surprising that people became radicalised.

As regards the irish in the USA - I have inlaws in New York.
My wifes uncle left ireland in 1937 : met his Irish wife in New York and raised four kids (three of whom served in the US Marine Corps).
That guy came back to holiday here recently. In his words, it was to be his last trip home. He wanted to come home to see his beloved Tipperary play Kilkenny in a hurling match. Having hurled for Tipp - he said he wanted to see them live, one more time before he dies, playing in Thurles (the home of irish hurling).

I disagree with that mans view on practically everything : politics, economics etc.
On the one hand he says he's American - he hoists his star spangled banner outside his house each day (I kid you not). When i point out to him that home is Ireland and not New York - he tells me how he encouraged his three sons to join the US army.
I counter with the fact that he's a Tipp man at heart and that home is Tipperary and not New York.
And so it goes : back and forth.

It is perhaps unique that always, always people leave here with the intention of coming back. Many never do make it back.
That inlaw is to all intents and purposes American. Yet in his core, he feels Irish.
So I can understand your point about your neighbourhood : on the outside many people may look American but inside those immigrants from Ireland feel
Irish.

[font=Comic Sans MS]One thing I have noticed here in America. Most 1st generation immigrants that come here are very active in the communitys they reside in. They seem to appreciate the good things that we have in this country. American born people take what we do have as good for granted. Immigrants take advantage of the oppurtunities we have in a positive way. I like the way immigrants take personal responsibility for what they do.
That is the problem America has with the past 2 generations. They look to others to create prosperity and well being.
America is currently going through a politically heavy situation now with immigration. Everyone is running around with opinions. The fact is that we need these immigrants in our economy. But ...... We also need to be able to control how many and what types of immigrants we allow in..... We want immigrants that want to come here and raise families and become productive. Immigrants that want to work toward citizenship only for the reason they become taxpayers and have use of taxpayer benefits.
We are faced with a problem.
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wolfix said:

[font=Comic Sans MS]One thing I have noticed here in America. Most 1st generation immigrants that come here are very active in the communitys they reside in. They seem to appreciate the good things that we have in this country. American born people take what we do have as good for granted. Immigrants take advantage of the oppurtunities we have in a positive way. I like the way immigrants take personal responsibility for what they do.
That is the problem America has with the past 2 generations. They look to others to create prosperity and well being.
America is currently going through a politically heavy situation now with immigration. Everyone is running around with opinions. The fact is that we need these immigrants in our economy. But ...... We also need to be able to control how many and what types of immigrants we allow in..... We want immigrants that want to come here and raise families and become productive. Immigrants that want to work toward citizenship only for the reason they become taxpayers and have use of taxpayer benefits.
We are faced with a problem.
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In the Irish context - there was literally nothing here during the 1920-1940's period.
The only industry was agriculture and that could not provide jobs for our population - so people like my uncle in law emigrated to Britain. USA,
or Australia in order to find jobs.
On arrival there - they took whatever jobs were going and were grateful for them too.

That generation went out and bettered themselves in their new country.
They knew that they had to because there was nothing to come back to.
That ability to get on and progress has benefitted this country. Many of the off spring of those people are now running successful US companies.
If I had a pound for everytime I have met US management at a US company here who ha told me "my father/grandfather came from....in Ireland".

An economy as large as the USA always needs immigrants - to do the jobs that the indigenuous population won't do.
You go to the Hamptons during summer - invariably there will be Irish students working there.