Simoni: "Never seen anyone..."

More interesting is his accusation that Basso asked him for money to allow
him to win yesterday's stage:

"He won because he was the strongest and if I had won (in Aprica) it would
have been a gift. But when we were descending (the Mortirolo), he asked me
not to drop him on the descent. Then 5km from Aprica, (Basso) asked me for
money to let me win the stage. I'm not used to asking for charity and I said
no."
Just as Simoni finished his accusations, Basso showed up at the sign-in and
resplendent in his pink tunic, tried to work things out with the bitter,
biting Simoni by extending his hand to shake with Simoni, but the Saunier
Duval man spit out to Basso, "I don't accept your excuses."

The surprised Basso turned to the media and explained, "It's true that I
asked (Simoni) to stay with me on the descent, but the rest is all false."
But Simoni wasn't backing off his allegations that Basso tried to sell him
the stage, saying to Basso with his trademark cold smile "Do you want me to
say how much you asked for?", and then turned his back on Basso and moved
away."

(source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/may06/may29news )

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/giro06/?id=/features/2006/basso_giro_et

Quoted message said:

"I've never seen anyone dominate [like Basso], never seen any one that
strong! He seems like an extra-terrestrial," Simoni said post-stage,

What about Armstrong I thought? Then I remembered: Simoni was usually
dropped when Armstrong put the hammer down.

JT

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Remove "remove" to reply
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Brian Phillips said:

More interesting is his accusation that Basso asked him for money to allow
him to win yesterday's stage:

"He won because he was the strongest and if I had won (in Aprica) it would
have been a gift. But when we were descending (the Mortirolo), he asked me
not to drop him on the descent. Then 5km from Aprica, (Basso) asked me for
money to let me win the stage. I'm not used to asking for charity and I said
no."
Just as Simoni finished his accusations, Basso showed up at the sign-in and
resplendent in his pink tunic, tried to work things out with the bitter,
biting Simoni by extending his hand to shake with Simoni, but the Saunier
Duval man spit out to Basso, "I don't accept your excuses."

The surprised Basso turned to the media and explained, "It's true that I
asked (Simoni) to stay with me on the descent, but the rest is all false."
But Simoni wasn't backing off his allegations that Basso tried to sell him
the stage, saying to Basso with his trademark cold smile "Do you want me to
say how much you asked for?", and then turned his back on Basso and moved
away."

(source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/may06/may29news )

So is it fair to say that Simoni couldn't BUY a stage win at the Giro
this year?

Does anyone find this believable? Given that Simoni is who he is, would
anyone make an offer like this to him? You know he's got the ego to
think he's going to win anyway and that all he's likely to do is behave
like a big Simoni in front of the media. Why would you even try to
negotiate anything with him?

Tim Lines said:

So is it fair to say that Simoni couldn't BUY a stage win at the Giro
this year?

Does anyone find this believable? Given that Simoni is who he is, would
anyone make an offer like this to him? You know he's got the ego to
think he's going to win anyway and that all he's likely to do is behave
like a big Simoni in front of the media. Why would you even try to
negotiate anything with him?

The article said that there was to be an investigation. I wonder if
it'll make it into the courts. It'd be quite interesting to discover
that the team radio picked up the conversation so it wouldn't be a case
of one person's word against another's.

R

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim Lines said:

So is it fair to say that Simoni couldn't BUY a stage win at the Giro
this year?

Does anyone find this believable? Given that Simoni is who he is, would
anyone make an offer like this to him? You know he's got the ego to
think he's going to win anyway and that all he's likely to do is behave
like a big Simoni in front of the media. Why would you even try to
negotiate anything with him?

The article said that there was to be an investigation. I wonder if
it'll make it into the courts. It'd be quite interesting to discover
that the team radio picked up the conversation so it wouldn't be a case
of one person's word against another's.

R

Whatever. Basso won and Simoni did not finish to HIS expectations. Oh well.

Brian Phillips said:

"Do you want me to
say how much you asked for?", and then turned his back on Basso and moved
away."

I do. I'm curious what a Giro mountain stage is going for these days.

Tim Lines <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Brian Phillips said:

More interesting is his accusation that Basso asked him for money to
allow him to win yesterday's stage:

"He won because he was the strongest and if I had won (in Aprica) it
would have been a gift. But when we were descending (the Mortirolo),
he asked me not to drop him on the descent. Then 5km from Aprica,
(Basso) asked me for money to let me win the stage. I'm not used to
asking for charity and I said no."
Just as Simoni finished his accusations, Basso showed up at the
sign-in and resplendent in his pink tunic, tried to work things out
with the bitter, biting Simoni by extending his hand to shake with
Simoni, but the Saunier Duval man spit out to Basso, "I don't accept
your excuses."

The surprised Basso turned to the media and explained, "It's true
that I asked (Simoni) to stay with me on the descent, but the rest is
all false." But Simoni wasn't backing off his allegations that Basso
tried to sell him the stage, saying to Basso with his trademark cold
smile "Do you want me to say how much you asked for?", and then
turned his back on Basso and moved away."

(source:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/may06/may29news )

So is it fair to say that Simoni couldn't BUY a stage win at the Giro
this year?

Does anyone find this believable?

Yes, it's perfectly believable. Victories are often bought and sold.
There's no reason to think that Basso is above that and it's also
believable that Simoni would try to capitalize on such an offer. I don't
see the problem; it seems fairly obvious what happened.

Quoted message said:

Given that Simoni is who he is,
would anyone make an offer like this to him?

Sure, why not? Simoni is not a poor man, that's all one really needs to
know about his identity to make such an offer.

Quoted message said:

You know he's got the
ego to think he's going to win anyway and that all he's likely to do
is behave like a big Simoni in front of the media. Why would you even
try to negotiate anything with him?

Simoni has probably bartered about stages before, but he didn't talk
about it afterward. Basso must have figured he wouldn't do it this time
either, which is fairly logical given the usual way of handling things
in the peloton. Simoni should have stuck to the rules and kept his mouth
shut. This incident probably won't be beneficial for him in the future.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim Lines <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Brian Phillips said:

More interesting is his accusation that Basso asked him for money to
allow him to win yesterday's stage:

"He won because he was the strongest and if I had won (in Aprica) it
would have been a gift. But when we were descending (the Mortirolo),
he asked me not to drop him on the descent. Then 5km from Aprica,
(Basso) asked me for money to let me win the stage. I'm not used to
asking for charity and I said no."
Just as Simoni finished his accusations, Basso showed up at the
sign-in and resplendent in his pink tunic, tried to work things out
with the bitter, biting Simoni by extending his hand to shake with
Simoni, but the Saunier Duval man spit out to Basso, "I don't accept
your excuses."

The surprised Basso turned to the media and explained, "It's true
that I asked (Simoni) to stay with me on the descent, but the rest is
all false." But Simoni wasn't backing off his allegations that Basso
tried to sell him the stage, saying to Basso with his trademark cold
smile "Do you want me to say how much you asked for?", and then
turned his back on Basso and moved away."

(source:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/may06/may29news )

So is it fair to say that Simoni couldn't BUY a stage win at the Giro
this year?

Does anyone find this believable?

Yes, it's perfectly believable. Victories are often bought and sold.
There's no reason to think that Basso is above that and it's also
believable that Simoni would try to capitalize on such an offer. I don't
see the problem; it seems fairly obvious what happened.

Quoted message said:

Given that Simoni is who he is,
would anyone make an offer like this to him?

Sure, why not? Simoni is not a poor man, that's all one really needs to
know about his identity to make such an offer.

Quoted message said:

You know he's got the
ego to think he's going to win anyway and that all he's likely to do
is behave like a big Simoni in front of the media. Why would you even
try to negotiate anything with him?

Simoni has probably bartered about stages before, but he didn't talk
about it afterward. Basso must have figured he wouldn't do it this time
either, which is fairly logical given the usual way of handling things
in the peloton. Simoni should have stuck to the rules and kept his mouth
shut. This incident probably won't be beneficial for him in the future.

No, I don't believe it, either. It was clear that Basso and CSC intended to
win the stage from the start. If not, CSC wouldn't have worked all day and
Basso would have just stayed in Gutierrez's wheel all day. You don't go
through all that just to sell the stage at the end, especially if you don't
need the money.

Also, Gibo talked about not accepting charity. But supposedly Basso wasn't
offerening charity, he was proposing a business transaction.

Promised to pay,
But got dropped anyway.

He's a bitter little man who will appear even shorter when he's off the
bike for good.

Best,
Bill

Actually, it is beginning to look like Simoni COULD have bought a stage
win at the Giro, lamentable though that may be. It is likely that
Simoni could have well afforded to buy the stage win from Basso. For
all we know, his team would have reimbursed him for the "business
expense". However, buy a victory does little to assuage one's ego.
Apparantly, there is a chasm of misunderstanding between Basso and
Simoni, regarding Simoni's cycling abilities as of 2006....

Simoni is [censored] because he won't be a 5-time winner of il Giro.
Indeed, Simoni won't ever win another Grand Tour. Simoni was probably
blindsided by reality when he was dropped on the ascent, and felt the
subconscious psychological need to project the blame for his
disappointing result onto his major rival.

IF Basso did offer the stage win...for a price...would it have really
made sense for Simoni to accede to the shake-down, and pony up the
bribe money?? After all, the narrative would have read that Basso had
given the stage to Simoni, NOT that Simoni had earned the stage win by
beating Basso man to man. Such a tainted win couldn't have been worth
much money...

Indeed, if Basso had made the gesture of giving the stage to Simoni
(even for Free), Basso still would have benefited, as he would have
burnished his image as Padrone of the Peloton.

I can't see Basso needing the money. He's going to get massive
sponsorship and endorsement contracts in the next few months. And Basso

and Simoni were reputed to be good friends. So the idea that Basso, at
the height of his ascendency, would be asking Simoni, in the dog-days
of
his career, for money for a win just doesn't seem likely to me. If
true,
it would be an extremely mean and spiteful thing to do, and whatever
else Basso is he doesn't seem either of those.
==============================

It might not have been about the money (even assuming that Simoni's
accusations are substancially correct). Simoni may have been doing some
trash talking. He certainly has a reputation for being unpleasant. He
could have struck a nerve, causing Basso to be spiteful. At this stage,
I suspect that Basso has a rather healthy sized ego, and when one
becomes a champion, and the pre-eminant cyclist in the world, that can
affect one's personality.

Simoni has probably bartered about stages before, but he didn't talk
about it afterward. Basso must have figured he wouldn't do it this time

either, which is fairly logical given the usual way of handling things
in the peloton. Simoni should have stuck to the rules and kept his
mouth
shut. This incident probably won't be beneficial for him in the future.

==========================================

What future? He's not long from retirement, given his age and his form.
Basso can't do anything to Simoni more than the ravages of Mother
Nature and Father Time .

Toast

Gunsberg said:

What future? He's not long from retirement, given his age and his form.
Basso can't do anything to Simoni more than the ravages of Mother
Nature and Father Time .

You really are in poor form when you're 3rd in grand tour.

"Gunsberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Simoni has probably bartered about stages before, but he didn't talk
about it afterward. Basso must have figured he wouldn't do it this time

either, which is fairly logical given the usual way of handling things
in the peloton. Simoni should have stuck to the rules and kept his
mouth
shut. This incident probably won't be beneficial for him in the future.

==========================================

What future? He's not long from retirement, given his age and his form.
Basso can't do anything to Simoni more than the ravages of Mother
Nature and Father Time .

Toast

Simoni can do one more season at least, don't you think? In spite of not
winning it, he has had a good giro.

Quoted message said:

It might not have been about the money (even assuming that Simoni's
accusations are substancially correct). Simoni may have been doing some
trash talking. He certainly has a reputation for being unpleasant. He
could have struck a nerve, causing Basso to be spiteful.

My thoughts exactly... he just wanted to [censored] Simoni... and I guess
Simoni had it coming.

Quoted message said:

Once Basso asked Simoni to stay with him, it seems to me
that it is reasonable for Simoni to expect to be gifted the stage
victory.

Normal Etiquette agrees^^ hence Simoni's "gentleman blah blah"

Quoted message said:

If Basso wanted to win the stage, he should not have asked
Simoni for any accomodations.

Or he REALLY wanted to mind-pogo Simoni

Quoted message said:

Just curious: In 1997, what would have been an appropriate sum for
Virenque to offer, for the help that he desired?

Poohhh... Complicated, but let's do a wild guess🙂

Knetemann offered Moser about 50.000$ for the Worldchampion title and
thats in 1978 -might be including the fee for the dutch team-. That was
an extraordinary amount at that time (he and his wife were fretting if
it wouldn't bankrupt them) but it was totally worth it.

Now we must realize that unlike Knetemann-Moser Virenque didn't buy a
guaranteed TdF win, instead he just bought some "super-domestiques"

On the other hand a TdF is worth millions, so you reap a lot when it
works.

Also, was the team prepared to pony up (I would be surprised if they
won't)?

A wild guess? At least in the 10K$ range for their help that day. He
allready could afford it and you don't get these chances often.

I can imagine that his director was really [censored] about it....

Quoted message said:

Simoni has never been gracious in defeat, and he has found it
difficult to accept that the sport has passed him by, and that he is
now just a "character actor" in Cycling.

Simoni is a bit more than that. He finished 3rd in the Giro, that's a
bit more than being an also-ran.

"Gunsberg" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simoni is [censored] because he won't be a 5-time winner of il Giro.
Indeed, Simoni won't ever win another Grand Tour. Simoni was probably
blindsided by reality when he was dropped on the ascent, and felt the
subconscious psychological need to project the blame for his
disappointing result onto his major rival.

IF Basso did offer the stage win...for a price...would it have really
made sense for Simoni to accede to the shake-down, and pony up the
bribe money?? After all, the narrative would have read that Basso had
given the stage to Simoni, NOT that Simoni had earned the stage win by
beating Basso man to man. Such a tainted win couldn't have been worth
much money...

No, had a deal been made, Simoni would have beaten Basso in a sprint. Which
in itself would have raised no questions since everyone would expect that
result. Why Basso would have let it come down to a sprint when Simoni is
clearly the faster sprinter might have raised some questions, but the duo
could than have said that the deal was if Simoni waited for Basso on the
descent, then Basso would agree to settle it at the line like gentlemen.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
de news: [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/giro06/?id=/features/2006/basso_giro_et

"I've never seen anyone dominate [like Basso], never seen any one that
strong! He seems like an extra-terrestrial," Simoni said post-stage,

What about Armstrong I thought? Then I remembered: Simoni was usually
dropped when Armstrong put the hammer down.

JT

My guess is that Basso asked Simoni to take it easy on the descent.

Simoni took this to mean either "and I'll gift you the stage", or "and we'll
ride together to the finish and then sprint for it."

Basso probably meant it as "I'm the patron and I don't want to take any
risks. You couldn't pick up enough time to get to the finish before I
caught you on the15 kim faux plat, and there's less risk being caught from
behind if we ride towards Aprica together than with me chasing you and then
you chasing me."

Simoni was [censored] when he thought Basso had gone against his "implicit"
word. And Simoni did what Simoni does, talked some trash.

Tuschinski said:

Knetemann offered Moser about 50.000$ for the Worldchampion title and
thats in 1978 -might be including the fee for the dutch team-. That was
an extraordinary amount at that time (he and his wife were fretting if
it wouldn't bankrupt them) but it was totally worth it.

Yeah, Knetemann probably lost about 50.000$ that day, but did he offer them?
http://groups.google.es/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/4e6f975c6ae3d293

Jenko