Signing off

That's sort of how I "quit" drinking beer. Less can be more. ;-))

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Bryan Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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I said I was still going to check in. Just not every day.

"Robert Siegel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Respectfully Bryan, as editor, you really need to stay aware of what

folks

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are saying about recumbents on this NG.

Set your filters and pass by any suspected junk without opening it.

Works

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for me, anyhow.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Bryan Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Like I said, I'll still be around from time to time but it's just not

worth

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it to pop in here every day anymore. Filtering/blocking/kill filing

takes

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longer around here than it does to read the few actual recumbent

posts.

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"EZ Biker :-)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PuPAb.53043$_M.252363@attbi_s54...
> It's honestly SAD that a lot of my fellow recumboers are deciding to

sign

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> off from the a.r.b.r NG, based on a few "GOOFS that continue to post

OT's

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> here. I honestly hope you all will reconsider, otherwise JERKOFFS

like

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Ed

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> D... and others WIN at killing off those posters that are TRULY

interested

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> in recumbent bicycling and only that in this particular NG. If you're using Outlook express
> all you would need to do (As I have

just

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> done) is click on tools, then "Message rules" and set up a kill file
filter
> for O.T., OT and ot in the subject line area OR the idiots name

(Posting

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the
> OT) in the "From" area. I don't get anyone's OT postings anymore and

if

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that
> results in some longtime fellow posters missing, that so be it. It's
obvious
> the majority of recumbent interests here DON'T WANT TO SEE YOUR

[censored]

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OT
> postings. It's a free for all world out there in Newsgroup land and

there

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> has always been (And will be) TROLLS AND OT posters out there. Don't

let

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> them win! Take a few moments and filter their collective Troll / OT

asses

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> out!!! EZ (No OT's anymore) Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (Bacchetta Aero

Pilot)

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>
>
>
> "Philbert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
> > I'm with you Bryan.
>
>

See earlier reference to self-righteous small-minded ideologues... Time wounds all heels...

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Bryan Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

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If any of you need to reach me please e-mail me or post on my message

board.

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I used to read this NG every day and it used to be a somewhat reliable

way

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to reach me but I won't be reading it too often anymore. I'll check in every so often to make
sure that I'm not missing anything. The OT stuff

has

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killed it for me. Congrats to Ed Dolan! Had no idea that one jerk

could so

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easily kill such a good thing. (Yes I know, Ed.... You are only

responding

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to everyone else and you're fighting the good fight against all of the horrible liberals, blah,
blah, blah...)

Nope, not a word about Mr. Sherman. I guess this ought to tell everyone where Mr. Ball is coming
from. For the editor of an online magazine he seems to have an awful lot of difficulty navigating
his way through something so simple as Google ARBR. Maybe one of these days I will have to have a
look at his rag and see if it is as screwed up as his posts to this newsgroup are.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Robert Siegel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That's sort of how I "quit" drinking beer. Less can be more. ;-))

Ah, a quote from the famous Mies Van Der Schlitz.

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--
snip

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"Edward Dolan" wrote...

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Nope, not a word about Mr. Sherman. I guess this ought to tell everyone where Mr. Ball is
coming from.

Not really. Although you are right Tom Sherman is just as big a problem when he keeps getting into
arguments with you or others he still has a higher bent content to noise ratio.

Mikael

Zippy the Pinhead <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Bryan Ball said:

Like I said, I'll still be around from time to time

The meta-farewell soliloquy continues...

Also known as the long goodbye...

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Mikael Seierup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" wrote...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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Nope, not a word about Mr. Sherman. I guess this ought to tell everyone where Mr. Ball is
coming from.

Not really. Although you are right Tom Sherman is just as big a problem when he keeps getting into
arguments with you or others he still has a higher bent content to noise ratio.

Mikael

Mikael, I don't care about "bent content to noise ratio". Are you saying that Mr. Sherman has a
perfect right to post his liberal inanities here on this newsgroup because he is also posting bent
related messages? I take issue with that. They are entirely two separate things. I will continue to
combat liberal inanities here until they are gone from this newsgroup and we can all hopefully get
back to recumbents and cycling. If that day never comes, then so be
it.

You are a liberal and so you do not mind Mr. Sherman's OT posts. Mr. Ball has stated in a previous
post that he thinks liberal posting to this newsgroup is perfectly acceptable since most who
subscribe to this newsgroup are liberals. I am here to dispute that assumption. I am a conservative
and so I do mind liberal posts enormously. It amazes me that you and others of your persuasion can
be so blind to the total situation we find ourselves in.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Mikael, I don't care about "bent content to noise ratio". Are you saying that Mr. Sherman has a
: perfect right to post his liberal inanities here on this newsgroup because he is also posting bent
: related messages? I take issue with that. They are entirely two separate things. I will continue
: to combat liberal inanities here until they are gone from this newsgroup and we can all hopefully
: get back to recumbents and cycling. If that day never comes, then so be it.

Liberal inanities are usually contained in threads that are easy to skip entirely. Just don't read
anything with "OT: Iraq" in the subject line. You could even kill file them. Or are you really
saying we'd need moderation?

: You are a liberal and so you do not mind Mr. Sherman's OT posts. Mr. Ball has stated in a previous
: post that he thinks liberal posting to this newsgroup is perfectly acceptable since most who
: subscribe to this newsgroup are liberals. I am here to dispute that assumption. I am a
: conservative and so I do mind liberal posts enormously. It amazes me that you and others of your
: persuasion can be so blind to the total situation we find ourselves in.

Hear hear! I think Ed is making a serious freedom of speech point here. Which is one of they key
political values of liberalism as well... It's easier to notice political bias if it's not one's
own. That's why non-liberal political messages become irritating in a newsgroup with liberal writers
(or readers). This might still be ok. Often there is some limit drawn to freedom of speech. For
example in some places, Fascist propaganda is simply outlawed.

Maybe there is no easy answer to Ed's questions here.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fi~rvarankaOpen ↗ [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Mikael, I don't care about "bent content to noise ratio". Are you saying that Mr. Sherman has a
: perfect right to post his liberal inanities here on this newsgroup because he is also posting
: bent related messages?

Yes, I think we all know you don't care about that. And I don't give a rats [censored] about his political
stance. I'm very close to killfiling him because he keeps arguing with you. Since you're either just
trolling or a man of deeply held political beliefs which at that point are indistinguishable from
religion its rather pointless and unamusing.

As for free speech I luckily have the freedom _not_ to listen. ;-)

Mikael

Bryan Ball said:

Congrats to Ed Dolan! Had no idea that one jerk could so easily kill such a good thing.

Sorry I contributed to the problem, Bryan. He now lives in the trollbox where he and Vandemann can
make sweet luuurve together.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

"Mikael Seierup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Mikael, I don't care about "bent content to noise ratio". Are you saying that Mr. Sherman has
: a perfect right to post his liberal inanities here on this newsgroup because he is also
: posting bent related messages?

Yes, I think we all know you don't care about that. And I don't give a rats [censored] about his
political stance. I'm very close to killfiling him because he keeps arguing with you. Since you're
either just trolling or a man of deeply held political beliefs which at that point are
indistinguishable from religion its rather pointless and unamusing.

As for free speech I luckily have the freedom _not_ to listen. ;-)

Mikael

Mr. Sherman - are you getting this? Mikael of Copenhagen is thinking about kill filing you along
with me. He says he doesn't give a rats [censored] about your political views! Do you think we can
survive this contretemps to our ambitions? I don't know about you, but I am all shook up about
this. Especially for your predicament as I know this would be a severe blow to your ego. What do
you think we should do about this?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

It's interesting that you singled out Ed as the single reason for your departure. The truth is that
the political banter is fueled on this thread by two (NOT ONE) very passionate camps. The fact that
you were only able to see one speaks volumes to me.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

You're probably right but the other one contributed to the newsgroup for years before he got on
the OT kick.

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that you singled out Ed as the single reason for your departure. The truth is
that the political banter is fueled on this thread by two (NOT ONE) very passionate camps. The
fact that you were only able to see one speaks volumes to me.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Stratrider is right. Bryan can't even to bring himself to mention the name of the "other one" who
has actually been on a prolific political "OT kick" in a.r.b.r. for years. I'm not ragging on the
"other one" - fact is I find most of his posts interesting even when I disagree with them. It's the
political bias being shown in the Dolan/Other One matter with which I take issue.

skip

"Bryan Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

You're probably right but the other one contributed to the newsgroup for years before he got on
the OT kick.

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that you singled out Ed as the single reason for your departure. The truth is
that the political banter is fueled on this thread by two (NOT ONE) very passionate camps. The
fact that you were only able to see one speaks volumes to me.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

"Bryan Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You're probably right but the other one contributed to the newsgroup for years before he got on
the OT kick.

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that you singled out Ed as the single reason for your departure. The truth is
that the political banter is fueled on this thread by two (NOT ONE) very passionate camps. The
fact that you were only able to see one speaks volumes to me.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

I see that this most sophisticated of posters is top posting yet once again so that the rest of us
have to look below to get the sense of what he is responding to. As always, he manages to get
everything ass backwards.

But he is not only screwed up on how to post, but also on how to think! There is no reason whatever
why anyone should be given a free pass on OT just because he was a regular on-topic poster. That is
what was ruining this newsgroup. I have showed up just in the nick of time to save you all from
yourselves.

No need to thank me. It is all part of my noblesse oblige.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

skip said:

It's the political bias being shown in the Dolan/Other One matter with which I take issue.

I don't have any trouble naming names, but that's not the point. I can handle any number of
opinionated poeple whose opinions I disagree with.

My issue with Ed is a simple one - if you cite evidence to him, he comes back with rhetoric. The
fact that it's extreme right-wing rhetoric is immaterial. If I say to Ed that he is wrong because of
this and this documented fact, his standard response is that I am wrong because he disagrees with me
- he apparently considers that "I know I'm right" is an adequate rebuttal to documented fact, which
is a recipe for long arguments going nowhere. Whatever Tom's faults I have not seen him doing this.
I have seen him produce carefully reasoned arguments with citations, I've never seen Ed cite
anything other than the American Journal of Because I Said So. The only other character who behaves
the same way (and on a much more serious subject, the wedgie vs. bent divide) is "Fabrizzio". But
he's joking. I hope ;-)

A sprited debate around the facts of an issue is often illuminating (that's how I came to change
from being a helmet advocate to my current position of scepticism) but when those "facts" amount to
"all liberals are traitors" the debate, such as it is, understandably tends to be rather
overshadowed by cries of "foul!" from people who are both liberal and patriotic.

The other thing which Ed does and Tom doesn't is to assert that he is right because he is American
and the American way is the one true way. Speaking as someone whose school was over 750 years old by
the time of the Boston Tea Party that sounds very much like arrogance. Bill Bryson, an American, has
made this same point.

Both Ed and Tom have deep political convictions and hate to let any comment go by which contains a
dogmatic assertions which contradicts those convictions. Tom is likely to produce evidence, Ed is
not. If they both stopped doing it this group would be a better place. I stopped joining in a while
back, for what it's worth, and have reverted to mainly lurking.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Arguing about top or bottom posting is like arguing about if the toilet seat should be left up or
down, or which way the roll of toilet paper should be mounted.

Perry B

PS: I'm a top poster, who leaves the toilet seat up, and the toilet paper falls to the front.

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bryan Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You're probably right but the other one contributed to the newsgroup for years before he got on
the OT kick.

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that you singled out Ed as the single reason for your departure. The truth is
that the political banter is fueled on this thread by two (NOT ONE) very passionate camps. The
fact that you were only able to see one speaks volumes to me.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

I see that this most sophisticated of posters is top posting yet once again so that the rest of us
have to look below to get the sense of what he is responding to. As always, he manages to get
everything ass backwards.

But he is not only screwed up on how to post, but also on how to think! There is no reason
whatever why anyone should be given a free pass on OT just because he was a regular on-topic
poster. That is what was ruining this newsgroup. I have showed up just in the nick of time to save
you all from yourselves.

No need to thank me. It is all part of my noblesse oblige.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

It's the political bias being shown in the Dolan/Other One matter with which I take issue.

I don't have any trouble naming names, but that's not the point. I can handle any number of
opinionated people whose opinions I disagree with.

My issue with Ed is a simple one - if you cite evidence to him, he comes back with rhetoric. The
fact that it's extreme right-wing rhetoric is immaterial. If I say to Ed that he is wrong because
of this and this documented fact, his standard response is that I am wrong because he disagrees
with me - he apparently considers that "I know I'm right" is an adequate rebuttal to documented
fact, which is a recipe for long arguments going nowhere. Whatever Tom's faults I have not seen
him doing this. I have seen him produce carefully reasoned arguments with citations, I've never
seen Ed cite anything other than the American Journal of Because I Said So. The only other
character who behaves the same way (and on a much more serious subject, the wedgie vs. bent
divide) is "Fabrizzio". But he's joking. I hope ;-)

A spirited debate around the facts of an issue is often illuminating (that's how I came to change
from being a helmet advocate to my current position of scepticism) but when those "facts" amount
to "all liberals are traitors" the debate, such as it is, understandably tends to be rather
overshadowed by cries of "foul!" from people who are both liberal and patriotic.

The other thing which Ed does and Tom doesn't is to assert that he is right because he is American
and the American way is the one true way. Speaking as someone whose school was over 750 years old
by the time of the Boston Tea Party that sounds very much like arrogance. Bill Bryson, an
American, has made this same point.

Both Ed and Tom have deep political convictions and hate to let any comment go by which contains a
dogmatic assertions which contradicts those convictions. Tom is likely to produce evidence, Ed is
not. If they both stopped doing it this group would be a better place. I stopped joining in a
while back, for what it's worth, and have reverted to mainly lurking.

Guy

Guy, are you totally insane? Are you actually challenging a librarian to produce facts and evidence?
I could flood this newsgroup with tons and tons of documents to support my every position, but if I
did that everyone here would come after me with tar and feathers. Even Mr. Sherman restrains himself
somewhat, but nonetheless make a nuisance of himself with all his so-called facts and evidence. Just
be thankful that I have some consideration for others on this newsgroup and that I do not do what
you recommend.

More to the point is that I am not here to educate or persuade anyone of anything. I am here to
refute liberal opinion with my own conservative opinion. If you want to be educated on anything, I
can refer you to a zillion sources, none of which will ever agree with Mr. Sherman's sources.

But Guy is right about one thing. Having had to deal with documents most of my life I have acquired
a proper contempt for them and for those who are bamboozled by them. By themselves documents are
next to useless. They always require that they be put in a context and interpreted. That requires
much effort and thought which is hard work, and no one from what I have seen so far is doing any of
that on this newsgroup, including Guy. Mr. Sherman knows how to take short cuts in this respect and
so he is able to bamboozle the naifs and the ignorant who are not sophisticated enough to see
through his obfuscations.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Perry Butler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Arguing about top or bottom posting is like arguing about if the toilet seat should be left up or
down, or which way the roll of toilet paper should be mounted.

Perry B

PS: I'm a top poster, who leaves the toilet seat up, and the toilet paper falls to the front.

I believe there is a logic to bottom posting that top posting does not have, unless you are used to
reading from the bottom up. I wonder if you read a book from the back to the front also?

You got the toilet seat wrong and the toilet paper wrong too. At least you are consistent, even if
consistently wrong.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: More to the point is that I am not here to educate or persuade anyone of anything. I am here to
: refute liberal opinion with my own conservative opinion. If you want to be educated on anything, I
: can refer you to a zillion sources, none of which will ever agree with Mr. Sherman's sources.

And just how useful is this? You lose credibility fast if you never back your statements.

IMHO learning is what the Usenet is all about, not "No it isn't - Is too!" style of "discussion".

: But Guy is right about one thing. Having had to deal with documents most of my life I have
: acquired a proper contempt for them and for those who are bamboozled by them. By themselves
: documents are next to useless. They always require that they be put in a context and interpreted.

Heh, reminds me of some of my recent reflections on learning :-) Documents are not always directly
relevant... but for someone who can utilize them, a good document can be vital.

: That requires much effort and thought which is hard work, and no one from what I have seen so far
: is doing any of that on this newsgroup, including Guy.

Nice, collective ad hominem ;p

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fi~rvarankaOpen ↗ [email hidden]

Perry Butler said:

Arguing about top or bottom posting is like arguing about if the toilet seat should be left up or
down, or which way the roll of toilet paper should be mounted.

More like arguing about whether it's polite to fart in company ;-)

Top posting is less irritating than failure to trim, though. Someone's got to pay for all that
bandwidth and storage. Anyone would think the people who wrote Outhouse made money from
computer upgrades.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗