signalling an un-obvious turn

Claire said:

...

The way I'm handling it now is to get in the left-hand turn lane,
signal for a left, and wait for the left hand turn light or my turn.
When the light turns green, or it's my turn to go at the four-way, I
roll forward and while rolling, point to the trail or cut-through
entrance, and get on.

Do you think the pointing only adds to the confusion? Better ideas of
how to handle these? None of these intersections warrent a dismount
with pedestrian-like behavior.

I don't see how pointing would add to the confusion. I'm a fan of
creative signaling. But the downside to it is, if you need to do an
emergency maneuver, one of your hands is in the wrong place.

Which motorists are you worried about? Would it be the "head on"
motorists? (It wasn't clear to me, but then I'm not sure I'm
visualizing things precisely.) Have they acted confused in the past?

Pardon my saying so, but this sounds like yet another little hassle
caused by separate facilities. They're just so hard to integrate into
the road network. Even when well done, you get these quirks.

- Frank Krygowski

Claire said:

There are a couple of intersections I negotiate regularly that have the
following set-up. The road I am on is a two-way road up until the
intersection. The way in front of me is a freeway off-ramp, one direction,
facing me. There is two-way cross traffic. Along the left side of the
off-ramp is the start of or continuation of a non-motorized facility,
either a short cut-through or a multi-use path.

Quoted message said:

What I'm doing as a bicycle is doing a sort of veering to the left,
and then going straight. Probably somewhere between 60 - 98% of the
motorists, depending on the intersection, have no clear idea where I'm
headed or what I'm doing.

Quoted message said:

The way I'm handling it now is to get in the left-hand turn lane, signal
for a left, and wait for the left hand turn light or my turn. When the
light turns green, or it's my turn to go at the four-way, I roll forward
and while rolling, point to the trail or cut-through entrance, and get on.

Quoted message said:

Do you think the pointing only adds to the confusion? Better ideas of how
to handle these? None of these intersections warrent a dismount with
pedestrian-like behavior.

I think you're doing the right thing. I'd probably do the same, if I felt
I needed to clarify where I was headed.

Can you pretty much continue through, or do you have to slow suddenly to
enter the trail? If not, there's probably no danger anyway, so it doesn't
matter.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Pardon my saying so, but this sounds like yet another little hassle
caused by separate facilities. They're just so hard to integrate into
the road network. Even when well done, you get these quirks.

You're pardoned.

But you'd like two of these three, honestly, if they were a regular
part of your commute, as they are for me. The connection from Factoria
Blvd is not possible to do any other way but by bike trail or
expressway. Any route on city streets would take you vastly out of the
way.

And the cut-through at 520 is brilliant, brilliant I tell you. I
remember when someone first showed me where it was -- I was awestruck
at how nifty it was.The neighborhood wouldn't stand for it being
available to cars, but it's such a convenience for those on foot or
bike.

The one to get on the trail at Island Crest Way -- well, there's a
roadway that's somewhat less direct, but flatter, so it's a fine
alternative to the trail. When it's a hot summer's day, I'll often take
the leafier, shadier, quieter road, if I have the extra time.

Warm Regards,

Claire

"Claire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do you think the pointing only adds to the confusion? Better ideas of
how to handle these? None of these intersections warrent a dismount
with pedestrian-like behavior.

I use pointing.

Claire said:

Do you think the pointing only adds to the confusion? Better ideas of
how to handle these? None of these intersections warrent a dismount
with pedestrian-like behavior.

I do the same thing sometimes--point to where I am going and wonder if
anybody even knows why the hell I did that.

I would be biased toward the right side of the turn lane, to facilitate
the turn-off. The only thing I might add is that this seems like a
situation where a little creative extra-legal activity could be of
great assistance. This would depend primarily on the sight lines left,
right, and forward. Let's say you're cruising toward the intersection
and can clearly see that no pedestrians are present and no vehicles are
approaching from any direction, but you've got a red light. You could
sneak through and be on your way, never have to worry about
coordinating with any random motorists.

Robert

"Claire" wrote: (clip) I roll forward and while rolling, point to the trail
or cut-through entrance, and get on.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I recall, some time back, a description of this, or similar intersection, in
which another complication was discussed. In that case, there is a
pedestrian walkway parallel to the cross street, which you would cross to
get onto the multi-use trail. This adds the complication, that you are
pressing to cross the street quickly, and it might be possible to strike a
pedestrian who doesn't expect a vehicle to shoot in from that direction.
Does that apply here?

Quoted message said:

The only thing I might add is that this seems like a
situation where a little creative extra-legal activity could be of
great assistance. This would depend primarily on the sight lines left,
right, and forward. Let's say you're cruising toward the intersection
and can clearly see that no pedestrians are present and no vehicles are
approaching from any direction, but you've got a red light. You could
sneak through and be on your way, never have to worry about
coordinating with any random motorists.

Other than the fact that I am generally a Good Girl, and obey stop
signs and signals...at least at the intersection with Factoria Blvd,
the traffic volumes are 16,600 cars daily on the street I'd be on to
enter the trail, 40,300 on the cross street (from: City of Bellevue
Transportation Department, 2004 Annual Weekday Traffic). That's A LOT
of cars. I don't think I've ever been at the intersection and it has
been empty. I led a solstice ride through there one year, and even
though we came through the intersection after midnight, and there was
still plenty of traffic.

The traffic cam is here: http://www.cityofbellevue.org/trafficcam/, and
you can click on the one on Factoria Blvd to give you a view of how
many cars are coming down the road even as you read this.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky

On 15 Dec 2005 17:28:46 -0800, "Claire" <[email hidden]> wrote:
....

Quoted message said:

The way I'm handling it now is to get in the left-hand turn lane,
signal for a left, and wait for the left hand turn light or my turn.
When the light turns green, or it's my turn to go at the four-way, I
roll forward and while rolling, point to the trail or cut-through
entrance, and get on.

Do you think the pointing only adds to the confusion? Better ideas of
how to handle these? None of these intersections warrent a dismount
with pedestrian-like behavior.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky

I think the pointing, coupled with eye contact with opposing driver is
about the best you can do.

I sometimes ride a very congested high traffic area with many drivers
needing to turn right at most intersections. I ride on the very wide
shoulder until approaching a red light, when I take a spot in the
vehicle line. I communicate my merge with a direct point where I'm
heading while watching the driver approaching the space. Riding my
Tour Easy recumbent makes driver-rider eye contact easy.

Indiana Mike

Leo Lichtman said:

"Claire" wrote: (clip) I roll forward and while rolling, point to the trail
or cut-through entrance, and get on.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I recall, some time back, a description of this, or similar intersection, in
which another complication was discussed. In that case, there is a
pedestrian walkway parallel to the cross street, which you would cross to
get onto the multi-use trail. This adds the complication, that you are
pressing to cross the street quickly, and it might be possible to strike a
pedestrian who doesn't expect a vehicle to shoot in from that direction.
Does that apply here?

Yes, there is also the additional hazard of pedestrians. Usually they
have no idea you're about to ride right up onto the sidewalk at them.
I haven't had nearly the problem with them as with people taking a
right turn from the freeway offramp personally.

--
Dane Buson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"Death is never prevented... just postponed"