Sidewall flats on Gatorskins

"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, I had my first flat with my Conti Gatorskins, after 900 miles.
Was riding through Ft. Devens yesterday, and hit a rock off-center that
really knocked me off balance for a second. Was pondering that for a
split second, when I hit another rock and then sssss. (Must have been a
military rock!)

No holes through the tire, just 2 noticeable abrasions on the sidewalls.
Sure enough, though, the puncture on the tube was on the side. How do
sidewall flats like this work? Do they create a temporary
discontinuity on the inside of the tire surface, which punctures the

tube?

It might have been a simple pinch flat, where the tire bottoms on the rim,
which cuts the tube.

Quoted message said:

Should I patch the inside of the tire with a tube patch behind the
abrasion areas, just to be sure?

Sidewall strength comes from the fabric, if it isn't cut, I wouldn't
bother. If it is cut, the sidewall will be weak. I have a lot of old MTB
tires with sidewall abrasions, but the sidewalls never failed. All the
failures I can recall came from fabric wearing through at the bead, causing
eventual blowouts.

Peter Cole said:

It might have been a simple pinch flat, where the tire bottoms on the rim,
which cuts the tube.

Single puncture, not two. I suppose if the strike is off-center, so
that only one side of the tire is affected, you might get a snakebite on
only that side. But, it was 25c tire, with adequate inflation, FWIW.

My theory was that a sharp-edged object hits the sidewall, and almost
penetrates, but instead causes a temporary point-like discontinuity on
the inside surface. I've seen glass splinters do that - not penetrate
all the way, but just cause a sharp discontinuity on the inside, which
is sufficient to puncture the tube (again and again!).

Dave

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Stallard

Quoted message said:

Last question: has anybody else had sidewall flat problems with the
Gators?

I've had these type of flats on numerous occasions usually from riding
on rock strewn rail trails and back roads with 25c tires. On analysis
all the punctures have been pinch flats.

luke

Dave Stallard said:

Should I patch the inside of the tire with a tube patch behind the
abrasion areas, just to be sure?

Short answer is no. Either the casing is undamaged, and you can just use
the tire with no problems, or the casing is damaged, and a tube patch will
not fix it. As an emergency measure you can install a "boot", a layer of
fabric between the tire and the tube, which will get you home. I use
pieces of an old tire for this. But this is only a temporary patch. Real
solution is to replace the tire.

Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve
_`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to
(_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkein

David L. Johnson said:

Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

What do you like instead?

Dave

Dave Stallard said:

David L. Johnson said:

Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

What do you like instead?

Try the Panaracer T-Serv tires - I used to use nothing but Gatorskins,
but also had trouble with the sidewalls deteriorating. The T-Servs
seem to last longer, have tougher sidewalls, weigh and feel the same
as the Gatorskins, and cost about half as much.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:30:31 -04

Quoted message said:

00, Dave Stallard wrote:

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

What do you like instead?

I like Avocets, but am finding them hard to locate.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

Mark Hickey said:

Dave Stallard said:

David L. Johnson said:

Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

What do you like instead?

Try the Panaracer T-Serv tires - I used to use nothing but Gatorskins, but
also had trouble with the sidewalls deteriorating. The T-Servs seem to
last longer, have tougher sidewalls, weigh and feel the same as the
Gatorskins, and cost about half as much.

Aren't any of these thick tires awfully sluggish? I took one look at the
Gatorskins and decided they'd feel like I was pulling a trailer.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Last question: has anybody else had sidewall flat problems with the
Gators?

Dave

I had a Gatorskin explode through the sidewall while reinflating it after a flat
on the road, destroying the tube and the tire. I assume that the sidewall was
damaged by whatever caused the flat. I still use them because I like the ride
but I always carry a spare tube and folding spare tire on long rides now.

Philip W. Moore said:

Quoted message said:

Well, I had my first flat with my Conti Gatorskins, after 900
miles. Was riding through Ft. Devens yesterday, and hit a rock
off-center that really knocked me off balance for a second. Was
pondering that for a split second, when I hit another rock and then
sssss. (Must have been a military rock!)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No holes through the tire, just 2 noticeable abrasions on the
sidewalls. Sure enough, though, the puncture on the tube was on
the side. How do sidewall flats like this work? Do they create a
temporary discontinuity on the inside of the tire surface, which
punctures the tube?

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a simple pinch flat. Have you tried putting baby powder
in the tire when you install the tube?

It sounds that way to me too but not all pinch flats cause "snake
bites", the two holes spaced like the fangs of a rattle snake.

However, what do you believe baby powder (talcum) will do? Consider
that the tube and casing are held together with a pressure of
inflation that is more than peeling electrical tape from a smooth
surface. The belief that this will somehow protect against pinch
penetration when the tire bottoms on the rim is a topological problem.
It is like putting your tongue firmly in cheek and pinching your cheek.
Talcum is not a lubricant and will not aid in the tube not remaining
pressed against the tire casing as it gets folded and pinched on
itself.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Should I patch the inside of the tire with a tube patch behind the
abrasion areas, just to be sure?

As has been mentioned, a cloth boot is required if there is a hole in
the casing. Then ride home and replace the tire.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last question: has anybody else had sidewall flat problems with the
Gators?

I am not moved by ferocious names of tires, be they alligators,
armadillos, snake skins, diablo, mambo, etc. I have not seen many
poor results with sidewall on Continental tires. I don't use them but
then I prefer Avocets and have used the ROAD model since its
introduction.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

David L. Johnson said:

Mark Hickey said:

Dave Stallard said:

David L. Johnson wrote:

> Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
> sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

What do you like instead?

Try the Panaracer T-Serv tires - I used to use nothing but Gatorskins, but
also had trouble with the sidewalls deteriorating. The T-Servs seem to
last longer, have tougher sidewalls, weigh and feel the same as the
Gatorskins, and cost about half as much.

Aren't any of these thick tires awfully sluggish? I took one look at the
Gatorskins and decided they'd feel like I was pulling a trailer.

The sidewalls on the Gatorskins aren't all that thick. I went from
Conti Attack/Force tires to Ultra Gatorskins in 700x25c, with no
obvious lose of performance. Maybe to a more experienced rider, or
someone totally weight concious, there would be some real difference,
but to the average rider, I don't think so.

Now, I have been told that the Armadillo is a sluggish riding tire,
but I have no interest in trying them.

They do make a folding version of the Gatorskin in 700x23c.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Sounds like a simple pinch flat. Have you tried putting baby powder in the
tire when you install the tube?
"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, I had my first flat with my Conti Gatorskins, after 900 miles.
Was riding through Ft. Devens yesterday, and hit a rock off-center that
really knocked me off balance for a second. Was pondering that for a
split second, when I hit another rock and then sssss. (Must have been a
military rock!)

No holes through the tire, just 2 noticeable abrasions on the sidewalls.
Sure enough, though, the puncture on the tube was on the side. How do
sidewall flats like this work? Do they create a temporary
discontinuity on the inside of the tire surface, which punctures the tube?

Should I patch the inside of the tire with a tube patch behind the
abrasion areas, just to be sure?

Last question: has anybody else had sidewall flat problems with the
Gators?

Dave

David L. Johnson said:

Mark Hickey said:

Dave Stallard <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What do you like instead?

Try the Panaracer T-Serv tires - I used to use nothing but Gatorskins, but
also had trouble with the sidewalls deteriorating. The T-Servs seem to
last longer, have tougher sidewalls, weigh and feel the same as the
Gatorskins, and cost about half as much.

Aren't any of these thick tires awfully sluggish? I took one look at the
Gatorskins and decided they'd feel like I was pulling a trailer.

I'm not sure what the Gatorskins weigh, but the 25mm T-Servs I run on
my road bike weigh 250g each. That's really not at all heavy for a
23-25mm tire - certainly not enough extra weight to make any real
difference (except for all the time I make up not patching / replacing
tubes every couple rides).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

David L. Johnson said:

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:30:31 -04

Quoted message said:

00, Dave Stallard wrote:

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

What do you like instead?

I like Avocets, but am finding them hard to locate.

They're on the outside of the rim, all the way around.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Quoted message said:

Mark Hickey said:

Try the Panaracer T-Serv tires - I used to use nothing but Gatorskins, but
also had trouble with the sidewalls deteriorating. The T-Servs seem to
last longer, have tougher sidewalls, weigh and feel the same as the
Gatorskins, and cost about half as much.

David L. Johnson said:

Aren't any of these thick tires awfully sluggish? I took one look at the
Gatorskins and decided they'd feel like I was pulling a trailer.

The TServ is much lighter and with a more supple sidewall
than that klunky Gatorskin.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

David L. Johnson said:

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:30:31 -04

Quoted message said:

00, Dave Stallard wrote:

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

Many people I have ridden with have had trouble with Continentals and
sidewall damage. I don't buy them.

What do you like instead?

I like Avocets, but am finding them hard to locate.

Dear David,

Sheldon Brown sells Avocets somewhere near Boston:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/622.html

Prices should drop after the Yankees crush the Red Sox.

Carl Fogel

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Aren't any of these thick tires awfully sluggish? I took one look at the
Gatorskins and decided they'd feel like I was pulling a trailer.

The Gastorskins are not bad actually. They certainly feel livelier
than Armadillos. Obviously they're not a road racing tyre but they're
a good compromise when you want a higher degree of puncture resistance
- for commuting in my case. The rolling resistance is certainly not
great enough that you actually feel it dragging.

--
Dave...

Mark Hickey said:

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Aren't any of these thick tires awfully sluggish? I took one look at the
Gatorskins and decided they'd feel like I was pulling a trailer.

I'm not sure what the Gatorskins weigh, but the 25mm T-Servs I run on
my road bike weigh 250g each. That's really not at all heavy for a
23-25mm tire - certainly not enough extra weight to make any real
difference (except for all the time I make up not patching / replacing
tubes every couple rides).

Sheldon Brown's website (and Conti's) list the 25 mm Gatorskins at 300g.

Hmmm. Verrry interesting. I may have to check out these Panaracers...

Dave

Quoted message said:

It sounds that way to me too but not all pinch flats cause "snake
bites", the two holes spaced like the fangs of a rattle snake.

Actually, the hole was sort of a slit, rather than a pinhole, so perhaps
it was a pinch flat.

Quoted message said:

However, what do you believe baby powder (talcum) will do? Consider
that the tube and casing are held together with a pressure of
inflation that is more than peeling electrical tape from a smooth
surface.

Probably some confusion here with the practice of talc'ing a tube so it
won't get caught as easily between rim and bead, or otherwise get stuck
to the tire. I don't do this, esp. because it would be a pain to bring
talc on a ride. Instead, I just go around and around the tube fussing
over it to make sure it's in place and not going to get caught when the
bead goes on.

I have tried using talc on certain, ahem, non-mechanical parts to
prevent them from binding to their fabric casing, however. 😉 Not sure
how well it works.

Quoted message said:

I am not moved by ferocious names of tires, be they alligators,
armadillos, snake skins, diablo, mambo, etc.

LOL! And good point.

Dave