Side pull brakes just don't work.

Quoted message said:

Hello,

Quoted message said:

The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.

<SNIP!>

Check the brake levers, they're probably a resin/plastic material which
will be bending and reducing the amount of force applied to the brakes.

I'd also check the material of the sidepulls I've seen some on kids bike
and cheapo MTBs made out of pressed metal which is a poor material for
anything except roofing flash.

If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
better quality brake caliper for not very much.

Cheers

Joel

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
the bikes in the house.

Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as [censored]'s sporting goods
had it on clearance.

The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.

The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
think that's the solution.

Is there something I'm missing here?

It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.

Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

Thanks In Advance.

Is the rim clean of oil/grease?

Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
"V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
doesn't. Hard to believe a manufacturer would do this, but it might be a
misguided attempt to prevent "endos".

Otherwise, it appears something is defective. Inexpensive, long-reach
BMX side-pull calipers have quite a bit of flex to them, but not so much
to make braking as bad as described.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Quoted message said:

<SNIP!>

Check the brake levers, they're probably a resin/plastic material which
will be bending and reducing the amount of force applied to the brakes.

I'd also check the material of the sidepulls I've seen some on kids bike
and cheapo MTBs made out of pressed metal which is a poor material for
anything except roofing flash.

Thanks for the reply.

Both the levers and sidepulls are cast. Not high end by any means, but
not bargain store grade. Made by Rush? Not familiar, but don't seem
like complete garbage.

That's part of why I'm so confused. I'm not a small guy and I'm
worried I'm gonna break the lever before the bike stops. I really have
to crush it to stop.

Joel Mayes said:

...
If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
better quality brake caliper for not very much.

Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.

(Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Joel Mayes said:

...
If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
better quality brake caliper for not very much.

Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.

(Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)

Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!

Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.

Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:

http://tinyurl.com/25smaj

The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
price.

Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!

;-)

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
the bikes in the house.

Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as [censored]'s sporting goods
had it on clearance.

The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.

The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
think that's the solution.

Is there something I'm missing here?

It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.

Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

Thanks In Advance.

Is the rim clean of oil/grease?

Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
"V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
doesn't. Hard to believe a manufacturer would do this, but it might be a
misguided attempt to prevent "endos".

Otherwise, it appears something is defective. Inexpensive, long-reach
BMX side-pull calipers have quite a bit of flex to them, but not so much
to make braking as bad as described.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

I fussed about how miserable my cyclocross brakes were with cantis.
When the brake pads finally wore out I replaced the pads and the brake
performance was much better. Nowhere as great as my DuraAce but much
better. As someone mentioned it might be excessive flex in the
caliper. A slightly better brake might do the trick.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Joel Mayes said:

...
If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
better quality brake caliper for not very much.

Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.

(Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)

Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!

Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.

Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:

http://tinyurl.com/25smaj

The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
price.

Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!

Look in the mirror and you will find an answer. 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Joel Mayes wrote:
> ...
> If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
> better quality brake caliper for not very much.
Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)

Quoted message said:

Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!

Quoted message said:

Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.

Quoted message said:

Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/25smaj

Quoted message said:

The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
price.

Quoted message said:

Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!

Look in the mirror and you will find an answer. 😉

In any case, you have proved once again that Harris Cyclery is not the
place for a fair deal. :->

if the adjustment is your first on sidepulls then get a manual from
the library or do a web search and review the adjustment procedure
against yours-step by step.
you need three hands. or a good thumb. center pads.vice grip the
cable. squeeze pads against poly bottle shims. pull cable taut. snap
cable lever closed. tighten cable screw with adjuster sent at 1/3rd
low. tighten cable adjuster and balance/center pads. right?
wype rim down with thinner, then CHO to remove thinner. wipe pads.

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

Quoted message said:

My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
the bikes in the house.

Quoted message said:

Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as [censored]'s sporting goods
had it on clearance.

Quoted message said:

The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.

Quoted message said:

The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
think that's the solution.

Quoted message said:

Is there something I'm missing here?

Quoted message said:

It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.

Quoted message said:

Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

Quoted message said:

Thanks In Advance.

Is the rim clean of oil/grease?

Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
"V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
doesn't.

That doesn't make any sense; he said the rear ubrake is working fine.
All ubrakes use 'traditional' pull, same as the front sidepull this
bike has.

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
the bikes in the house.

Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as [censored]'s sporting goods
had it on clearance.

The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.

The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
think that's the solution.

Is there something I'm missing here?

It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.

Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

Thanks In Advance.

It is this bike, right? http://www.diamondbackbmx.com/items.asp?deptid=2&itemid=225

How is the brake feel on the front in terms of cable friction? Front
brakes on cheap bikes with through-the-steerer routing often have
issues with this to the extent that it soaks up enough energy to make
a difference in brake effectiveness. If the setup is frictiony as it
is, redoing it with proper length housing and minimizing sharp bends
can help, or you could use one of the fancy comes-all-together bmx
brake cable sets to completely eliminate the issue.

One possibility is that the levers it came with are the type that can
be set to pull either 'traditional' or 'v-brake/linear pull' amounts
of cable. If they were, and the front lever was incorrectly set to the
'v' mode, it would cause this exact problem because it wouldn't be
giving you enough leverage, aka mechanical advantage. Levers like this
clearly have 2 different places for the cable barrel on the lever
blade (some types have 2 simple holes that the barrel can sit in;
others have the barrel held by a pivoting part that can be set for 2
different positions).

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Aug 18, 7:50 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"

Quoted message said:

Joel Mayes said:

...
If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
better quality brake caliper for not very much.

Quoted message said:

Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.

Quoted message said:

(Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)

Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!

Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.

Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:

http://tinyurl.com/25smaj

The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
price.

Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!

;-)

Both are keystoned, BTW-is one for a pair and the other for a single??

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

On Aug 18, 7:18 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Aug 18, 7:50 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"

Quoted message said:

Joel Mayes said:

...
If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
better quality brake caliper for not very much.

Quoted message said:

Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.

Quoted message said:

(Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)

Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!

Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.

Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:

http://tinyurl.com/25smaj

The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
price.

Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!

;-)

Both are keystoned, BTW-is one for a pair and the other for a single??

Wonder how many are going to wonder if that means they came from Pennsylvania. Let's let them keep wondering, eh?

I
..

the central voussoir?

Nate Knutson said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,
My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
the bikes in the house.
Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as [censored]'s sporting goods
had it on clearance.
The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
think that's the solution.
Is there something I'm missing here?
It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.
Thanks In Advance.

Is the rim clean of oil/grease?

Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
"V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
doesn't.

That doesn't make any sense; he said the rear ubrake is working fine.
All ubrakes use 'traditional' pull, same as the front sidepull this
bike has.

I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
brake mislabeled as a "U".

Do BMX bikes use "U" brakes, and if so, why?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Nate Knutson said:

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
the bikes in the house.

Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as [censored]'s sporting goods
had it on clearance.

The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.

The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
think that's the solution.

Is there something I'm missing here?

It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.

Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

Thanks In Advance.

It is this bike, right? http://www.diamondbackbmx.com/items.asp?deptid=2&itemid=225

Hope not, for the OP's sake. The bike in the URL appears to have the
funky headset cable device that allows one to spin the handlebars 360
degrees without binding the cables. I've worked on a few of those for
the neighborhood kids and can attest that they (the cable devices, not
the kids) are the work of the devil. Kludgy at best, they could be the
cause of the trouble.

Mark J.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Joel Mayes said:

...
If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
better quality brake caliper for not very much.

Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.

(Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)

Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!

Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.

Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:

http://tinyurl.com/25smaj

The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
price.

Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!

Value added.

Not since the old bikepro site has anyone made that much information available.

You are permitted to quit [censored] about it and offer a more affordable
alternative complete with cheerful info and handy buyers guides or you can
continue to [censored] that the guy who put in all the work is getting more attention
than the guy who carps on the internets. It is indeed a free country and you can
take either approach.

Ron

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Nate Knutson said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Hello,
> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
> the bikes in the house.
> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as [censored]'s sporting goods
> had it on clearance.
> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
> think that's the solution.
> Is there something I'm missing here?
> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.
> Thanks In Advance.
Is the rim clean of oil/grease?

Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
"V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
doesn't.

That doesn't make any sense; he said the rear ubrake is working fine.
All ubrakes use 'traditional' pull, same as the front sidepull this
bike has.

I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
brake mislabeled as a "U".

Do BMX bikes use "U" brakes, and if so, why?

Ever since the dark ages. Mostly, I think, because they don't protrude anywhere
- no dangly bits to put a foot on - no loops of cable anywhere or cable ends
spear your calf or anything silly.

Ron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!

Quoted message said:

Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.

Quoted message said:

Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/25smaj

Quoted message said:

The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
price.

Quoted message said:

Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!

Look in the mirror and you will find an answer. 😉

In any case, you have proved once again that Harris Cyclery is not the
place for a fair deal. :->

There's more to a "fair deal" than just the price. Harris Cyclery does a
phenomenal job of not only running down unusual, useful items, but they also
keep them in stock (they don't just buy them when someone's closing
something out cheap) and provide a huge amount of useful information on
their website. If not for that website, many (most?) people bringing up some
items as a solution wouldn't have known they exist. Some people see value in
that and are willing to buy from them, even though their pricing may be a
bit higher.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com