Shrugs -- how important?

John Black said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the

other

Quoted message said:

two do not? How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?
Thanks.

Shrugs work your traps...not delts.

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:52:20 GMT, John Black <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

two do not?

Yes, they hit the trapezius muscle directly.

Quoted message said:

How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?

Not important enough for me to do them. I find that doing heavy dead
lifts hits them enough.

Which ? Shoulders or Traps ?? A deadlift doesn't do anything for the
shoulders and wouldn't do much for the traps unless you held the bar
for a good while or didn't hit the ground while doing your reps...don't
most people return the weight to the ground when doing heavy deadlifts
??

gman99 said:

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:52:20 GMT, John Black <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do.

Presses,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first

two

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

two do not?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, they hit the trapezius muscle directly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?

Yes, it's almost all traps. For what it's worth, I do shrugs on 'pull
day', with chins, curls, rows, etc. I do, however, feel minor trap
tightness after doing my shoulder day, which is: seated over-the-head
dumbell presses/side DB raises/front DB raises. My trap concentration
on pull day is from upright rows/dumbell shrugs/barbell shrugs.

B

In article <[email hidden]>,

gman99 said:

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:52:20 GMT, John Black <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

two do not?

Yes, they hit the trapezius muscle directly.

Quoted message said:

How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?

Not important enough for me to do them. I find that doing heavy dead
lifts hits them enough.

Which ? Shoulders or Traps ?? A deadlift doesn't do anything for the
shoulders and wouldn't do much for the traps unless you held the bar
for a good while or didn't hit the ground while doing your reps...don't
most people return the weight to the ground when doing heavy deadlifts
??

Try deadlifting a max weight and tell me it doesn't do anything for the
traps - or shoulders, for that matter.

Or just go here:

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/khobman800/

Check out the Laughlin pic - deadlift. Look at the traps and tell me they
aren't getting worked.

Quoted message said:

Try deadlifting a max weight and tell me it doesn't do anything for

the

Quoted message said:

traps - or shoulders, for that matter.

But that is a static movement (I know...contradiction in terms...but I
think you know what I'm saying...let's say non-mevement) for the
traps...they're holding your arms to your body as opposed to
contracting to pull your arms up. Same effects ? I don't know...if that
were the case why bother moving at all...just stand there with the
weight in your hands.

"John Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the
other
two do not? How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?
Thanks.

I'm a minimalist but I've never done shrugs - I do a kettlebell military
press, which is similar to an Arnold dumbbell press, and it seems to hit
the shoulders nicely all around. As others have said, deadlifts take
care of the rest.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

gman99 said:

Quoted message said:

Try deadlifting a max weight and tell me it doesn't do anything for

the

Quoted message said:

traps - or shoulders, for that matter.

But that is a static movement (I know...contradiction in terms...but I
think you know what I'm saying...let's say non-mevement) for the
traps...they're holding your arms to your body as opposed to
contracting to pull your arms up. Same effects ? I don't know...if that
were the case why bother moving at all...just stand there with the
weight in your hands.

Dude. Google 'isometrics'.

There is no requirement for movement for a muscle to contract. None at
all. The problem with isometrics is they build strength in a limited ROM.

However, anytime the shoulders are involved in anything the traps are
doing something, mainly because the scapula serves as a base of support
for the shoulders and the traps are a major muscle in 'pinning' the
scapula.

In the case of the deadlift the arms actually extend - quite a ROM in the
conventional deadlift. So there is also a lot of movement there. The
deltoids have to be involved. If you look at the musculature of the top
olympic lifters in the lighter classes you realize that static contraction
can build a lot of muscles. They all have good shoulders.

Check out Pyros Dimas here.

Go to the third video from the bottom.

http://www.pyrros.gr/video.html

Basically the guy cleans, jerks (not a press - the prime movers are the
legs and hips) and snatches. But look at the shoulders.

John Black said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the other
two do not? How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?

They're useful if you feel you need to do extra trap work. Also useful
as supplemental work for the are neck extensions/flexion/bridges.
Higher on my list of priorities (in terms of "shoulder" work) are rear
raises/reverse flys, external rotation exercises, cuban presses; things
along those lines.

-Adam

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1109263872.086638.202420
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

A deadlift doesn't do anything for the
shoulders and wouldn't do much for the traps unless you held the bar
for a good while or didn't hit the ground while doing your reps...don't
most people return the weight to the ground when doing heavy deadlifts
??

I dont know how you came to that conclusion. My traps grew a lot whilst DL
returning weight to ground.

--
Lordy

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

I want a slim girlie neck, which makes my shoulders look broader. Also, I
suffer from sleep apnea, which is aggravated by wieght around the lower
neck, so I don't do them.

Peter Webb

"John Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the other
two do not? How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?
Thanks.

John Black

Peter Webb said:

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

They are also important for stabilizing the cervical vertebrae. Shrugs
are one of my rehab exercises.

Deadlifts and cleans typically target them well enough without other
specific trap work, but I do 2 sets of shrugs/week in addition to or
twice/week in lieu of of DLs.

Carrying full water buckets, full sprayer tanks, and pulling/hauling
brush also works the traps (and blasts the rear delts).

Traps are important for holding your head on your body. Otherwise it
would fall off.

In article <[email hidden]>,

elzinator said:

Peter Webb said:

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

They are also important for stabilizing the cervical vertebrae. Shrugs
are one of my rehab exercises.

Deadlifts and cleans typically target them well enough without other
specific trap work, but I do 2 sets of shrugs/week in addition to or
twice/week in lieu of of DLs.

Carrying full water buckets, full sprayer tanks, and pulling/hauling
brush also works the traps (and blasts the rear delts).

Traps are important for holding your head on your body. Otherwise it
would fall off.

Not to mention that anytime you do anything with yout shoulders or move
your upperarm about the shoulder joint the traps are involved. Because the
shoulder joint is dependant on the scapula as a base for force and the
traps are one of the muscles used to 'pin' or lock the scapula.

"elzinator" wrote

Quoted message said:

Peter Webb said:

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

They are also important for stabilizing the cervical vertebrae. Shrugs
are one of my rehab exercises.

Deadlifts and cleans typically target them well enough without other
specific trap work, but I do 2 sets of shrugs/week in addition to or
twice/week in lieu of of DLs.

Carrying full water buckets, full sprayer tanks, and pulling/hauling
brush also works the traps (and blasts the rear delts).

Traps are important for holding your head on your body. Otherwise it
would fall off.

Another real world function that isn't done much any more is anything
involving a wheelbarrow. Hise wrote about the really big guys he saw that
ran the wheelbarrows up the ramps that serviced big brick jobs on the
construction sites of a hundred years ago. This became the basis of the
Hise squat. It also played a role in the creation of the trap bar.

As far as commenting on heads falling off the body, this seems a desired
result of many modern trainees. Anything that is pragmatic or contributes
to overall body strength and function is vigorously resisted.

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

elzinator said:

Peter Webb said:

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

They are also important for stabilizing the cervical vertebrae.

Shrugs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are one of my rehab exercises.

Deadlifts and cleans typically target them well enough without

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

specific trap work, but I do 2 sets of shrugs/week in addition to

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

twice/week in lieu of of DLs.

Carrying full water buckets, full sprayer tanks, and

pulling/hauling

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

brush also works the traps (and blasts the rear delts).

Traps are important for holding your head on your body. Otherwise

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would fall off.

Not to mention that anytime you do anything with yout shoulders or

move

Quoted message said:

your upperarm about the shoulder joint the traps are involved.

Because the

Quoted message said:

shoulder joint is dependant on the scapula as a base for force and

the

Quoted message said:

traps are one of the muscles used to 'pin' or lock the scapula.

Also associated with this is computer work. Anyone experience 'mouse
shoulder'? It typically manifests in the traps and delts.

Lee Michaels said:

"elzinator" wrote

Quoted message said:

Peter Webb said:

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

They are also important for stabilizing the cervical vertebrae.

Shrugs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are one of my rehab exercises.

Deadlifts and cleans typically target them well enough without

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

specific trap work, but I do 2 sets of shrugs/week in addition to

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

twice/week in lieu of of DLs.

Carrying full water buckets, full sprayer tanks, and

pulling/hauling

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

brush also works the traps (and blasts the rear delts).

Traps are important for holding your head on your body. Otherwise

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would fall off.

Another real world function that isn't done much any more is anything

Quoted message said:

involving a wheelbarrow. Hise wrote about the really big guys he saw

that

Quoted message said:

ran the wheelbarrows up the ramps that serviced big brick jobs on the

Quoted message said:

construction sites of a hundred years ago. This became the basis of

the

Quoted message said:

Hise squat. It also played a role in the creation of the trap bar.

They still do. Most construction workers have a good set of traps. So
do iron workers. However, for low back consideration, I prefer a
GardenWay cart 🙂

Quoted message said:

As far as commenting on heads falling off the body, this seems a

desired

Quoted message said:

result of many modern trainees. Anything that is pragmatic or

contributes

Quoted message said:

to overall body strength and function is vigorously resisted.

hehheh.
And is perpetuated by the 'Monkey-see, Monkey-do' phenomenon.

elzinator said:

Peter Webb said:

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

They are also important for stabilizing the cervical vertebrae. Shrugs
are one of my rehab exercises.

Deadlifts and cleans typically target them well enough without other
specific trap work, but I do 2 sets of shrugs/week in addition to or
twice/week in lieu of of DLs.

I started doing shrugs once or twice a week when I was feeling kind of
lazy but needed a second exercise to complete a superset, and I find
that since including them my tendency towards getting vicious muscle
tension headaches is reduced.

Which, yay. Because I've had these headaches for years and I'm pretty
sick of them.

Now if I could just eliminate stress from my life...

In article <khobman800-2402051535440001@localhost>, khobman800
@REMOVEyahoo.com says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, John Black

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Adam Fahy wrote:
> John Black wrote:
>
>> There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
>> raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
>> kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the
>> other two do not? How important are they to put into a shoulder
>> routine?
>
>
> They're useful if you feel you need to do extra trap work. Also useful
> as supplemental work for the are neck extensions/flexion/bridges. Higher
> on my list of priorities (in terms of "shoulder" work) are rear
> raises/reverse flys, external rotation exercises, cuban presses; things
> along those lines.
>
>
> -Adam

What is a cuban press?

Also, what are external rotation excercises? This is getting
complicated...

John Black

external rotation means yours shoulders are rotated laterally.

Which is simple of your are a physiology student, so check out this site
made by physiology students

http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html#anchor110483

Cuban press? I call it a dumbbell [censored], but here it is.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?MainMuscle=Shoulders

hint: Google is your friend.

Thanks (all) for the info.

John Black

John Black said:

There are 3 kinds of shoulder excercises I see people do. Presses,
raises (side and front) and shrugs. I've always done the first two
kinds but never really did shrugs. Do they hit something that the other
two do not? How important are they to put into a shoulder routine?
Thanks.

John Black

Whenever I do high-rep deadlifts, like say 20 in a set, my traps will
talk to me for a couple of days.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

elzinator said:

Peter Webb said:

If you want a thick, bull like neck, shrugs are important.

They are also important for stabilizing the cervical vertebrae. Shrugs
are one of my rehab exercises.

Deadlifts and cleans typically target them well enough without other
specific trap work, but I do 2 sets of shrugs/week in addition to or
twice/week in lieu of of DLs.

Carrying full water buckets, full sprayer tanks, and pulling/hauling
brush also works the traps (and blasts the rear delts).

Traps are important for holding your head on your body. Otherwise it
would fall off.

Not to mention that anytime you do anything with yout shoulders or move
your upperarm about the shoulder joint the traps are involved. Because the
shoulder joint is dependant on the scapula as a base for force and the
traps are one of the muscles used to 'pin' or lock the scapula.

Any suggestions for a shrug type movement that can be done seated? There
are a few problems for my artificial hips and shattered ankle in picking
up a barbell heavy enough to do anything, and even seated trying to lean
forward and pick up heavy enough dumbbells is not the sort of thing that
my surgeon would likely approve of. I used to really like shrugs,
though, and without deadlifts my traps are noticeably smaller now. Also,
I really don't have room for any more equipment, so it would have to be
done with either my home equipment (power rack, incline/flat/decline
bench, olympic barbell and dumbbells, low pulley/lat pulldown machine,
etc) or the machines (including a smith machine with very few weight
plates) at the gym I go to for biking and leg work. Any help would be
appreciated.

Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/