Show Me Don't Bleat .

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You are all fond of requiring you scientific evidence when it suits you ,

I

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need some .
Point me to web sites that prove conclusively , scientifically

substantiated

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that the eating of apricot kernels provably caused a death beyond doubt .
For every substantiated one I will give you two at least who succumbed

from

Quoted message said:

effects of chemotherapy

Bow

Science does not prove conclusively beyond doubt. Doubt is the stuff that
science is made of. Besides that, cause of death is seldom as specific as
that. When a person is very ill with AIDS, then dies of pneumonia, did the
AIDS kill him, or the pneumonia? The deaths that can be attributed to eating
apricot kernels are mostly not from cyanide poisoning, but rather from
abandoning effective cancer therapy. Some of those who did so would have
been cured; some would have died anyway. It is not possible to sort out
which are which.

--Rich

Quoted message said:

Subject: Show Me Don't Bleat .
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 4/1/2004 8:18 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

scientifically substantiated
that the eating of apricot kernels provably caused a death beyond doubt .

in most cases...these are people who have already tried and failed at
conventional therapy for cancer

they die of the cancer....not of the treatment

in the case of folks who START with altie treatment for cancer...it is MORE
likely they will die of untreated disease...

Quoted message said:

For every substantiated one I will give you two at least who succumbed from
effects of chemotherapy

there is no doubt that chemo knocks out one's immune system...which is what it
is supposed to do....

they die of effects of this..ie infection..

however without the chemo most will succumb from the cancer sooner...
hawki.....

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You are all fond of requiring you scientific evidence when it suits you

,

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

need some .
Point me to web sites that prove conclusively , scientifically

substantiated

Quoted message said:

that the eating of apricot kernels provably caused a death beyond doubt

..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For every substantiated one I will give you two at least who succumbed

from

Quoted message said:

effects of chemotherapy

Bow

Science does not prove conclusively beyond doubt. Doubt is the stuff that
science is made of. Besides that, cause of death is seldom as specific as
that. When a person is very ill with AIDS, then dies of pneumonia, did the
AIDS kill him, or the pneumonia? The deaths that can be attributed to

eating

Quoted message said:

apricot kernels are mostly not from cyanide poisoning, but rather from
abandoning effective cancer therapy. Some of those who did so would have
been cured; some would have died anyway. It is not possible to sort out
which are which.

--Rich

Actually. when a cancer patient dies, it is often not clear why they died at
that particular point in time, after apparently being just as ill or weak
for quite some time. I can understand why lay people scratch around for
answers and can attribute the decline and death to chemotherapy. Bew's
claim is utter nonsense, or at least a gross exaggeration, but I understand
how such a belief can arise in those with little experience of cancer.

It is also unfortunately true that a lot of chemotherapy is used in
desperate circumstances where it is not likely to to do much good. In
"alternative" medicine the last-ditch usage of methods that have little or
no chance of working is applauded, while terminally biassed people like Bew
can only see sinister motives if doctors respond to similar pressures.

Is it true that American oncologists can profit from the sale of
chemotherapeutic agents to their patients? I find that extraordinary, if
true. Selling drugs to patients is a serious offense in Australia and
England.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You are all fond of requiring you scientific evidence when it suits

you

Quoted message said:

,

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

need some .
Point me to web sites that prove conclusively , scientifically

substantiated

Quoted message said:

that the eating of apricot kernels provably caused a death beyond

doubt

Quoted message said:

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For every substantiated one I will give you two at least who succumbed

from

Quoted message said:

effects of chemotherapy

Bow

Science does not prove conclusively beyond doubt. Doubt is the stuff

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

science is made of. Besides that, cause of death is seldom as specific

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that. When a person is very ill with AIDS, then dies of pneumonia, did

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

AIDS kill him, or the pneumonia? The deaths that can be attributed to

eating

Quoted message said:

apricot kernels are mostly not from cyanide poisoning, but rather from
abandoning effective cancer therapy. Some of those who did so would have
been cured; some would have died anyway. It is not possible to sort out
which are which.

--Rich

Actually. when a cancer patient dies, it is often not clear why they died

at

Quoted message said:

that particular point in time, after apparently being just as ill or weak
for quite some time. I can understand why lay people scratch around for
answers and can attribute the decline and death to chemotherapy. Bew's
claim is utter nonsense, or at least a gross exaggeration, but I

understand

Quoted message said:

how such a belief can arise in those with little experience of cancer.

It is also unfortunately true that a lot of chemotherapy is used in
desperate circumstances where it is not likely to to do much good. In
"alternative" medicine the last-ditch usage of methods that have little or
no chance of working is applauded, while terminally biassed people like

Bew

Quoted message said:

can only see sinister motives if doctors respond to similar pressures.

Is it true that American oncologists can profit from the sale of
chemotherapeutic agents to their patients? I find that extraordinary, if
true. Selling drugs to patients is a serious offense in Australia and
England.

Peter Moran

.............................................................................
...........
Please don't answer a question with a question as a politician does , you
have sidestepped the issue . You people are always the ones bleating on
about how apricot kernels and alternative approaches are an abject failure ,
not only that , they are downright dangerous and have been responsible for
deaths .

Without arguing about the effectiveness of either chemo or alternative , all
I am asking for is proof that apricot kernels have been responsible for
deaths . After all , if we can believe what we read , there are thousands
and thousands of people out there who do use this supposedly dangerous and
deadly substance , I certainly do plus others I know , so it would logically
follow that recorded deaths from such a substance abuse would be well known
.. In fact you know full well that the powerful media machines of the drug
companies would make sure such instances were worldwide headlines.

I can certainly show you examples of where people have been done in by
chemo because even the advocates of the treatment admit that it destroys
good as well as bad tissue and that it destroys the immune system .

You state " It is also unfortunately true that a lot of chemotherapy is used
in desperate circumstances where it is not likely to do much good " , who do
you think you are kidding ? , chemotherapy is the number one weapon , talk
about meddling with reality , get real .

The majority of people who end up seeking alternative help have usually been
given up for dead by the conventional system, they have been told to get
their things in order , we can do no more for you . If the conventional
system has failed then do you think it has any right to try and control the
freedom of choice of individuals who seek other means to treat their illness
from this point on ? . Should you agree in principle with , that , yes
people do have that right , then I would put it to you that freedom of
choice is not about desperation and last ditch attempts .

Everyone has the right to freedom of choice , do you believe in censorship ?
, where someone who thinks they know better or more than you dictates what
you may read and view , I doubt very much you do . How then can you and your
peers set yourselves up as medical censors ? , I and everyone else have the
perfect right to seek and believe what we choose to believe , you may agree
or disagree , fine . The parents of the children with cancer mentioned in a
previous post had every right to seek alternative care for their child .

This is where we come down to the real difference between the two
approaches,like it or not , it is the major problem with the medical
profession even though they constantly deny it , they truly think they have
the power of god and have the right to dictate to those who do not wish to
be dictated to . Not only that they also bring to bear the force of the law
to ensure that everyone understands just who is boss .

Well not everyone does think you guys and gals are the be all and the end
all of healthcare and not everyone wants what you have , so get over it .

PS : the statement by Rich " Science does not prove conclusively beyond
doubt. Doubt is the stuff that
science is made of." , is a statement we all should copy into a text file so
we can produce it the next time one of you asks for scientific evidence on
an alternative approach .

I am still waiting for the answer to the original question .

Bew

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
....> ..........

Quoted message said:

Please don't answer a question with a question as a politician does , you
have sidestepped the issue . You people are always the ones bleating on
about how apricot kernels and alternative approaches are an abject failure

,

Quoted message said:

not only that , they are downright dangerous and have been responsible for
deaths .

Without arguing about the effectiveness of either chemo or alternative ,

all

Quoted message said:

I am asking for is proof that apricot kernels have been responsible for
deaths . ...

Consuming apricot kernels may not directly cause death... the dose is
probably too small. But it will not help. It may actually turn into a
cause of stomach cancer (just an idle speculation).

Here are a couple of notes from the FDA (by the way, a check using the
search engine in www.fda.gov for laetrile brings up lots of interesting
things, like oral histories of FDA officers dealing with snake oil
peddlers):
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00309.html

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00128.html

"HCN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:yYEbc.171301$1p.2093481@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
...> ..........

Quoted message said:

Please don't answer a question with a question as a politician does ,

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have sidestepped the issue . You people are always the ones bleating on
about how apricot kernels and alternative approaches are an abject

failure

Quoted message said:

,

Quoted message said:

not only that , they are downright dangerous and have been responsible

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

deaths .

Without arguing about the effectiveness of either chemo or alternative ,

all

Quoted message said:

I am asking for is proof that apricot kernels have been responsible for
deaths . ...

Consuming apricot kernels may not directly cause death... the dose is
probably too small. But it will not help. It may actually turn into a
cause of stomach cancer (just an idle speculation).

http://www.equilibra.uk.com/vitb17.shtml

"Notes: Some government health departments believe that apricot kernels
produce toxic reactions when taken in excessive doses. For this reason, we
recommend that not more than 60 seeds per day should be consumed as per the
United States Food & Drug Administration guidelines."

http://vinton.osu.edu/fcs/toxic.html

From a pro-laetrile site:

http://www.thefountainoflife.ws/cancer/howsafe.htm

Never combine oral Laetrile with raw almonds or raw apricot kernels, or raw
vegetable or bean sprouts, as these are high in the cyanide-releasing
beta-glucosidase enzyme.

http://www.behaviour-problems.freeserve.co.uk/2/Health/poisonplants.htm

Apricot Kernel Kernels contain cyanide. Children have died from eating too
many kernels!

Snip

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Show Me Don't Bleat .
From: "HCN" [email hidden]
Date: 4/3/2004 12:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <yYEbc.171301$1p.2093481@attbi_s54>

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
...> ..........

Quoted message said:

Please don't answer a question with a question as a politician does , you
have sidestepped the issue . You people are always the ones bleating on
about how apricot kernels and alternative approaches are an abject failure

,

Quoted message said:

not only that , they are downright dangerous and have been responsible for
deaths .

Without arguing about the effectiveness of either chemo or alternative ,

all

Quoted message said:

I am asking for is proof that apricot kernels have been responsible for
deaths . ...

Consuming apricot kernels may not directly cause death... the dose is
probably too small. But it will not help. It may actually turn into a
cause of stomach cancer (just an idle speculation).

Here are a couple of notes from the FDA (by the way, a check using the
search engine in www.fda.gov for laetrile brings up lots of interesting
things, like oral histories of FDA officers dealing with snake oil
peddlers):
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00309.html

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00128.html

Umm.

Only 26,000 hits on FDA corruption here:

http://tinyurl.com/2k999

Jan

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 3, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...snip...> From a pro-laetrile site:

http://www.thefountainoflife.ws/cancer/howsafe.htm

Never combine oral Laetrile with raw almonds or raw apricot kernels, or

raw

Quoted message said:

vegetable or bean sprouts, as these are high in the cyanide-releasing
beta-glucosidase enzyme.

http://www.behaviour-problems.freeserve.co.uk/2/Health/poisonplants.htm

Apricot Kernel Kernels contain cyanide. Children have died from eating

too

Quoted message said:

many kernels!

Snip

....

Thanks... this is good information. Especially the garden sites.

Reminds of when I went to a garden design talk while we were landscaping the
yard (sticking mosly to edibles and trying to avoid plants that could harm
our then small children). It was amusing and kind of shocking when the
garden designer put up a slide of a caster bean plant combined with elephant
ears. Yikes!!

By the way, planting edibles is no guarentee of avoiding plants harmful to
children (note the cautions on many of the fruit tree pits). I had
elderberries for a couple of years... until I saw a list just like you
pointed to. They were also big and messy... so they got shovel pruned.

Now that the kids are older and not prone to chewing on plants for fun... I
have added delphiniums, wisteria, hyacynths and daffodils, just because I
like them.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Show Me Don't Bleat .
From: "HCN" [email hidden]
Date: 4/3/2004 12:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <yYEbc.171301$1p.2093481@attbi_s54>

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
...> ..........

Quoted message said:

Please don't answer a question with a question as a politician does ,

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have sidestepped the issue . You people are always the ones bleating on
about how apricot kernels and alternative approaches are an abject

failure

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

,

Quoted message said:

not only that , they are downright dangerous and have been responsible

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

deaths .

Without arguing about the effectiveness of either chemo or alternative

,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all

Quoted message said:

I am asking for is proof that apricot kernels have been responsible for
deaths . ...

Consuming apricot kernels may not directly cause death... the dose is
probably too small. But it will not help. It may actually turn into a
cause of stomach cancer (just an idle speculation).

Here are a couple of notes from the FDA (by the way, a check using the
search engine in www.fda.gov for laetrile brings up lots of interesting
things, like oral histories of FDA officers dealing with snake oil
peddlers):
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00309.html

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00128.html

Umm.

Only 26,000 hits on FDA corruption here:

http://tinyurl.com/2k999

I knew she would whine about the FDA and poosted URLs showing the same
cautions from "alternative" sources.

What a pathetic nincomPOOP she is.