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should i or shouldn't i...

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Road Cycling
Published
6 November 2005
Last activity
10 November 2005
Original author
Ravi
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  1. Hi,
    ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
    pushing his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a
    little bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open
    for the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
    first, after two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the door
    and he exited after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows that i
    too sometimes commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes. Still
    puzzling thing was why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the door
    open for him. Upon reflection, i came up with two ways to look at things is:

    1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
    2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..

    when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and
    thank them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also a
    possibility.

    I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you react?

    may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling 😉

    +ravi

  2. "Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,
    ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist pushing
    his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a little bit
    faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open for the
    cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door first, after
    two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the door and he exited
    after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows that i too sometimes
    commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes. Still puzzling thing was
    why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the door open for him. Upon
    reflection, i came up with two ways to look at things is:

    1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
    2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..

    when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and thank
    them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also a
    possibility.

    I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you react?

    may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling 😉

    I run into this on a frequent basis. I don't want people holding doors for
    me. They don't know where to stand, they get in the way, I can't get through
    the door with my bike without bumping them or bumping myself or my bike in
    an effort not to bump them. It's awkward.

    On the other hand, I know how to go through doors with my bike. I know how
    to do it effortlessly and without help.

    So when someone tries to hold a door for me I just say "thanks, but it'll be
    easier if you just go ahead."

    RichC

  3. Ravi said:

    Hi,
    ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist pushing
    his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a little bit
    faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open for the
    cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door first,
    after two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the door and he
    exited after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows that i too
    sometimes commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes. Still puzzling
    thing was why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the door open for
    him. Upon reflection, i came up with two ways to look at things is:

    1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
    2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..

    when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and
    thank them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also a
    possibility.

    I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you react?

    may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling 😉

    +ravi


    People insist on holding the door for you because
    1. They perceive it's unwieldy and you have to struggle with it. The
    truth is it's easy and those of us who carry our bikes through doors
    every day do it easily.
    2. They are courteous - people hold the door open for each other when
    they don't have bikes, eh?
    3. They don't understand that two people plus one bike do NOT fit in a
    doorway, and the effort of going around someone standing IN a doorway is
    more difficult than holding the door open for ones self.

    It's hard to explain item no. 3 to non-cyclists. I've given up. Now I
    pretend like I'm doing something else until they go away.

    Collin "Oh, I'm just putzing with my little light here for a while,
    thanks anyway." O'Neill

  4. "Rich Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:


    "Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,
    ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
    pushing
    his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a little
    bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open for
    the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
    first, after two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the
    door and he exited after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows
    that i too sometimes commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes.
    Still puzzling thing was why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the
    door open for him. Upon reflection, i came up with two ways to look
    at things is:

    1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
    2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..

    when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and
    thank them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also
    a possibility.

    I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you
    react?

    may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling 😉

    I run into this on a frequent basis. I don't want people holding doors
    for me. They don't know where to stand, they get in the way, I can't
    get through the door with my bike without bumping them or bumping
    myself or my bike in an effort not to bump them. It's awkward.

    On the other hand, I know how to go through doors with my bike. I know
    how to do it effortlessly and without help.

    So when someone tries to hold a door for me I just say "thanks, but
    it'll be easier if you just go ahead."

    RichC

    Here in New York, apartment buildings have _double_ doors. It's tough
    to get to the inner door before the outer door thwacks the rear wheel.
    Tough, but doable. So I can do it myself, but I appreciate anyone who
    holds the door. Especially when I'm coming in with the 'bent.

    --ag

  5. Ravi said:

    ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
    pushing his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a
    little bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open
    for the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
    first, ...

    Where in Little Rock was this?

    --Karen D.

  6. Veloise said:
    Ravi said:

    ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
    pushing his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a
    little bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open
    for the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
    first, ...

    Where in Little Rock was this?

    lol

  7. Rich Clark said:

    I run into this on a frequent basis. I don't want people holding doors for
    me. They don't know where to stand, they get in the way, I can't get through
    the door with my bike without bumping them or bumping myself or my bike in
    an effort not to bump them. It's awkward.

    yeah. was holding the door open for him asking him to go thru the door
    first, i was holding the door open and standing behind the door - full
    passage way open for the cyclist.

    Quoted message said:


    On the other hand, I know how to go through doors with my bike. I know how
    to do it effortlessly and without help.

    hmm... i guess, that must be it. He knows a certain way, let him make
    fine tune it.

    +ravi

  8. Veloise said:


    Where in Little Rock was this?

    one more story for you: i witnessed even recently. Sometimes i ride a
    train/trolley with my bike. Once inside the train/trolley, you gotto
    lift the bike up and hang it on one wheel. Once, i had just entered and
    saw this happening: one lady was trying to lift a heavy mtn bike and was
    struggling to get the front wheel hooked - (its kinda tricky to lift the
    bike and hook the front wheel) and she is probably new to it or haven't
    mastered the art of doing it. One gentleman closer to her offered to
    help, but she declined it vehemently and saying "I am an independant
    woman!" and then he backed off and she couldn't hang the bike, continued
    to hold the bike on the floor of the train/troller until her stop.

    +ravi

    Quoted message said:


    --Karen D.


  9. Quoted message said:

    People insist on holding the door for you because
    1. They perceive it's unwieldy and you have to struggle with it. The
    truth is it's easy and those of us who carry our bikes through doors
    every day do it easily.
    2. They are courteous - people hold the door open for each other when
    they don't have bikes, eh?
    3. They don't understand that two people plus one bike do NOT fit in a
    doorway, and the effort of going around someone standing IN a doorway is
    more difficult than holding the door open for ones self.

    It's hard to explain item no. 3 to non-cyclists. I've given up. Now I
    pretend like I'm doing something else until they go away.

    Collin "Oh, I'm just putzing with my little light here for a while,
    thanks anyway." O'Neill

    Coming from the point of view of someone who was wheelchair bound for 3
    months, and used a electric scooter for a further 6 months, I can
    completely understand how #1 and #3 interact with each other.

    They percieve that you have to struggle. Frequently, when I am in a
    wheelchair, it is a struggle. Life is not designed for people who are
    three feet tall. But, although people see the struggle they don't see
    that their "help" isn't very helpful.

    *GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY 'CHAIR*

    I've never really figured out how to deal with this situation. The end
    result is that strangers usually come across thinking that the girl in
    the 'chair is awfully rude when they were just trying to be nice and do
    something equivalent to picking up my legs and walking them for me.

  10. My son uses a very large electric wheelchair controlled by a sonar
    device in the headrest which he operates by head position (but
    fortunately he is not "bound" to it as you were/are - he doesn't take
    it to bed with him at night - sorry about your having to sleep with it!
    :o) ) and the etiquette of getting through doors is always a challenge.
    I agree - when folks put their hands on his w/c is it as if they are
    violating his personal space.

    However, we find that most folks are very helpful when they hold the
    doors for him, and we/he/his wife accepts their assistance with
    pleasure. Same with my bike and doors - although it usually is easier
    to do it myself, I accept their assistance as an indication of their
    kindness and willingness to help. Sometimes I will just say, "Thanks
    so much, but I can do this better by myself." Sometimes, it IS easier
    if they hold the door for me.

    So, I think both are correct: 1. The person is holding the door out
    of courtesy and 2. He/she think the bicyclist needs assistance. Isn't
    that neat?

    Both are much better, IMHO, than slamming the door in my face, however.

  11. Colorado Bicycler said:

    My son uses a very large electric wheelchair controlled by a sonar
    device in the headrest which he operates by head position (but
    fortunately he is not "bound" to it as you were/are - he doesn't take
    it to bed with him at night - sorry about your having to sleep with it!
    :o) ) and the etiquette of getting through doors is always a challenge.
    I agree - when folks put their hands on his w/c is it as if they are
    violating his personal space.

    However, we find that most folks are very helpful when they hold the
    doors for him, and we/he/his wife accepts their assistance with
    pleasure. Same with my bike and doors - although it usually is easier
    to do it myself, I accept their assistance as an indication of their
    kindness and willingness to help. Sometimes I will just say, "Thanks
    so much, but I can do this better by myself." Sometimes, it IS easier
    if they hold the door for me.

    So, I think both are correct: 1. The person is holding the door out
    of courtesy and 2. He/she think the bicyclist needs assistance. Isn't
    that neat?

    Both are much better, IMHO, than slamming the door in my face, however.

    Maybe we are just more mobility advanced up here in Canada, but
    commercial buildings, and newer multi-unit residential buildings (and
    some older renovated buildings) have automatic doors[1]. When I biked
    to the bank last week, I wanted to take my bike inside while using the
    bank machine, I used the automatic door, and then walked the bike
    through, nice and simple. Leaving was the same deal, push the button,
    and go through the now open door. They are not required for single unit
    residential buildings, however I assume you could get one. However for
    multi-unit buildings they are code, so if your renovating an older
    building enough that you need to meet newer building code, they are
    required. If the door is not at street level, then a ramp is also
    required.

    I work for a courier company, and they were required to install one last
    year, when they renovated the "store", and although I have only seen two
    customers in wheel chairs since then, it's a heavily used feature, it's
    much easier to bring a large heavy box up the ramp, and use the
    automatic door then, it is to try and open two doors while carrying a
    heavy box.

    [1] automatic door, there is a button beside the door, you push the
    button, it opens the door, waits about 30-60 seconds -- enough time for
    a wheelchair to pass through, then allows the door to close normally.

    W

  12. Yes, we have a lot of auto doors in the lower 50 also. But stores like
    Subway - yes I take my bike in there - and most other restaurants
    don't, as don't many medium sized stores such as bike shops, for
    example.

  13. Ravi said:

    one more story for you: i witnessed even recently. Sometimes i ride a
    train/trolley with my bike. Once inside the train/trolley, you gotto
    lift the bike up and hang it on one wheel. Once, i had just entered and
    saw this happening: one lady was trying to lift a heavy mtn bike and was
    struggling to get the front wheel hooked - (its kinda tricky to lift the
    bike and hook the front wheel) and she is probably new to it or haven't
    mastered the art of doing it. One gentleman closer to her offered to
    help, but she declined it vehemently and saying "I am an independant
    woman!" and then he backed off and she couldn't hang the bike, continued
    to hold the bike on the floor of the train/troller until her stop.

    I've always wondered - if I'm a sexist pig when I hold a door open for
    a woman who's behind me, am I a closet gay when I do it for a guy?

    Life is SO confusing these days... ;-)

    Mark "equal opportunity door holder" Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

  14. Cameron Lewis said:

    <I don't want people holding doors for
    <me.

    Alright then, next time I see a cyclist, I'll just let the door slam right
    in his face behind me.


    Atta boy!

    Or, just at least not start a politeness contest when they say, "Oh, I
    got it, thanks, though."

  15. Mark Hickey said:

    I've always wondered - if I'm a sexist pig when I hold a door open for
    a woman who's behind me, am I a closet gay when I do it for a guy?

    It's obviously a far-right-wing Christian Fundamentalist Sectarian attempt
    at mind and behavior control. Duh!

    Bill "that pocket bible you slip 'em is the giveaway" S.

  16. <[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) *GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY 'CHAIR*
    (clip)
    ****************
    I think it would be presumptuous and rude to take hold of someone's
    wheelchair without asking first: "Would you like some help?"

  17. Jeff "life is good" wrote:
    ....

    Quoted message said:

    It used to be really simple. I was raised to be courteous to people.
    All people, male and female, handicapped or able-bodied. I still hold
    doors for people, and when someone holds the door for me, I accept it
    and say thank you....

    My own pet peeve (with wheels or not) is the person who thinks that
    standing in the doorway, with an arm blocking my passage to hold the
    door open, is doing me a favor. I have a knee thing (no more volleyball
    sidesteps) so I can't navigate around this, and getting into that
    little dance of "who's going which way" can cause additional injury. In
    such instances I hang back and wait.

    One notable instance caused my "helper" to become angry, and she pulled
    the door shut in my face. "Fine, I won't help you!!" It was not worth
    explaining ACL and the likelihood of a small wrong movement causing me
    pain and injury for days or weeks. (If the sole of my shoe catches on
    the floor I can be couch-bound and heating pad-ded for several hours.
    Cycling is helpful.

    FWIW, I have no visible ADA issue. This is always just common misguided
    courtesy.

    When someone tried this with the two of us (bike and me), I smiled and
    said, thanks, it works better if I do it. (Double door that opens out,
    I push it with right arm and it stays open long enough to get the bike
    through.) I leave mine in the vestibule of USPS while I run in to my PO
    box.

    HTH

    --Karen D.

  18. <I don't want people holding doors for
    <me.

    Alright then, next time I see a cyclist, I'll just let the door slam right
    in his face behind me.

  19. <am I a closet gay when I do it for a guy?

    Do what for a guy?

  20. God, what an arrogant thing to say. I know people who've had ACL, and
    it's agonizing. The fact that Karen is still riding, despite ACL,
    makes me pretty sure who'd be doing the whining with a similar level of
    pain.

    I don't have much patience with people who do macho strutting [censored]
    on the web, where it's safe and they can pretend to be tough guys.

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