Shoes and Cleats

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:02:55 -0400, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.

Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
cleats?
The pair on Nashbar state that they don't come with cleats, but the pair
at
Performance don't state if they do or not. I'm surprised to find that
cleats cost around $20. I was not expecting that as my LBS gave me a
pair
free to go with the shoes I bought from them (or, maybe the cleats were
included in the price, but as it was some time before I actually went
clipless they just gave them to me then).

Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
Shimano
SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?

SPD cleats have been the same for some while now. So, they should fit.
Cleats are expensive, relatively speaking. The cleats for my peddles cost
$40, and I've had to replace them yearly. Are you really going to cycle a
while in sandals?

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Roger Zoul said:

Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with cleats?

No, cleats usually don't come with shoes. They are included with
pedals.

Quoted message said:

Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my Shimano
SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?

If you have Shimano brand pedals, get the Shimano brand cleats. The
SPD clone cleats (Wellgo, typically) don't work as well with Shimano
pedals.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Bob in CT wrote:
:: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:02:55 -0400, Roger Zoul
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.
:::
::: Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
::: cleats?
::: The pair on Nashbar state that they don't come with cleats, but the
::: pair at
::: Performance don't state if they do or not. I'm surprised to find
::: that cleats cost around $20. I was not expecting that as my LBS
::: gave me a pair
::: free to go with the shoes I bought from them (or, maybe the cleats
::: were included in the price, but as it was some time before I
::: actually went clipless they just gave them to me then).
:::
::: Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
::: Shimano
::: SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?
:::
:::
::
:: SPD cleats have been the same for some while now. So, they should
:: fit. Cleats are expensive, relatively speaking. The cleats for my
:: peddles cost $40, and I've had to replace them yearly. Are you
:: really going to cycle a while in sandals?

Okay....that must be a loaded question....I think I'm going to cycle while
in sandals...is there a reason NOT to do that? The reason I want to is that
at about 60 miles on a hot day, my feet give me hell. My shoes have just
enough play in them to let my foot slip around, so after the miles build up
my feet hurt. Frankly, I had to cut my ride short yesterday just because of
this...so sandals seem like a good option since my toes would be free....

::
:: --
:: Bob in CT
:: Remove ".x" to reply

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:23:03 -0400, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bob in CT wrote:
:: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:02:55 -0400, Roger Zoul
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.
:::
::: Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
::: cleats?
::: The pair on Nashbar state that they don't come with cleats, but the
::: pair at
::: Performance don't state if they do or not. I'm surprised to find
::: that cleats cost around $20. I was not expecting that as my LBS
::: gave me a pair
::: free to go with the shoes I bought from them (or, maybe the cleats
::: were included in the price, but as it was some time before I
::: actually went clipless they just gave them to me then).
:::
::: Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
::: Shimano
::: SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?
:::
:::
::
:: SPD cleats have been the same for some while now. So, they should
:: fit. Cleats are expensive, relatively speaking. The cleats for my
:: peddles cost $40, and I've had to replace them yearly. Are you
:: really going to cycle a while in sandals?

Okay....that must be a loaded question....I think I'm going to cycle
while
in sandals...is there a reason NOT to do that? The reason I want to is
that
at about 60 miles on a hot day, my feet give me hell. My shoes have just
enough play in them to let my foot slip around, so after the miles build
up
my feet hurt. Frankly, I had to cut my ride short yesterday just
because of
this...so sandals seem like a good option since my toes would be free....

Let me know how it goes. I'd mentally be freaking out ("No covering over
my toes?"😉, but it might very well work. Are they stiff, though?

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Bob in CT wrote:
:: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:23:03 -0400, Roger Zoul
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Bob in CT wrote:
::::: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:02:55 -0400, Roger Zoul
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD
:::::: cleats.
::::::
:::::: Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come
:::::: with cleats?
:::::: The pair on Nashbar state that they don't come with cleats, but
:::::: the pair at
:::::: Performance don't state if they do or not. I'm surprised to find
:::::: that cleats cost around $20. I was not expecting that as my LBS
:::::: gave me a pair
:::::: free to go with the shoes I bought from them (or, maybe the
:::::: cleats were included in the price, but as it was some time
:::::: before I actually went clipless they just gave them to me then).
::::::
:::::: Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with
:::::: my Shimano
:::::: SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: SPD cleats have been the same for some while now. So, they should
::::: fit. Cleats are expensive, relatively speaking. The cleats for my
::::: peddles cost $40, and I've had to replace them yearly. Are you
::::: really going to cycle a while in sandals?
:::
::: Okay....that must be a loaded question....I think I'm going to cycle
::: while
::: in sandals...is there a reason NOT to do that? The reason I want
::: to is that
::: at about 60 miles on a hot day, my feet give me hell. My shoes
::: have just enough play in them to let my foot slip around, so after
::: the miles build up
::: my feet hurt. Frankly, I had to cut my ride short yesterday just
::: because of
::: this...so sandals seem like a good option since my toes would be
::: free....
:::
:::
::
:: Let me know how it goes. I'd mentally be freaking out ("No covering
:: over my toes?"😉, but it might very well work. Are they stiff,
:: though?

Well, I don't know, but they are sold for cycling and hence I'd expect them
to be. Nashbar had the Lake version and Performance had the Shimano
version.

I have similar issue about not covering my toes, but it's either pain or
comfort, as I see it. My butt and my feet are the limiting factors for me
on long rides.

::
:: --
:: Bob in CT
:: Remove ".x" to reply

Roger Zoul said:

I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.

Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
cleats? The pair on Nashbar state that they don't come with cleats,
but the pair at Performance don't state if they do or not. I'm
surprised to find that cleats cost around $20. I was not expecting
that as my LBS gave me a pair free to go with the shoes I bought from
them (or, maybe the cleats were included in the price, but as it was
some time before I actually went clipless they just gave them to me
then).

Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
Shimano SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?

No, shoes do NOT come with cleats. Best bet is to find some SPD cleats on
sale somewhere and stock up.

While it might be cool (literally) to ride in sandals now and then, I really
wonder about your intended use (having read your other post{s}). Just
because the shoes you have now don't fit properly, doesn't mean you should
avoid all shoes!

I, for one, wouldn't feel too comfortable doing lengthy rides in sandals.
All it takes is /one crash/...

Bill "modify current shoes, or buy some new ones that actually fit your
feet" S.

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:49:34 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Well, I don't know, but they are sold for cycling and hence I'd expect them
to be. Nashbar had the Lake version and Performance had the Shimano
version.

I have similar issue about not covering my toes, but it's either pain or
comfort, as I see it. My butt and my feet are the limiting factors for me
on long rides.

What about just getting better fitting cycling shoes? If your foot is
sliding around, then that's the fault of the shoe fit and not the fault of
either the shoe, or your foot. That's not to say a different 'model' of
shoe might solve it, with better airflow or something.

IOW, if you had an ingrown toenail and your toe -hurt-, then maybe sandals.
But to get sandals just b/c the shoe is too hot or not fitting seems like
avoiding the problem, rather than solving it.

Eventually, in the winter, when it cools down, you're gonna want shoes that
fit, right?

Don't mean to be pedantic, just thinking aloud. ;-)

Also, again thinking aloud, what about stopping and changing your socks at
the 1/2 way point? It might be you need a different type of sock -
something thinner, and more wicking?

Good luck!

-B

S o r n i said:

Roger Zoul said:

I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.

Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
cleats? The pair on Nashbar state that they don't come with cleats,
but the pair at Performance don't state if they do or not. I'm
surprised to find that cleats cost around $20. I was not expecting
that as my LBS gave me a pair free to go with the shoes I bought from
them (or, maybe the cleats were included in the price, but as it was
some time before I actually went clipless they just gave them to me
then).

Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
Shimano SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?

No, shoes do NOT come with cleats. Best bet is to find some SPD cleats on
sale somewhere and stock up.

While it might be cool (literally) to ride in sandals now and then, I really
wonder about your intended use (having read your other post{s}). Just
because the shoes you have now don't fit properly, doesn't mean you should
avoid all shoes!

I, for one, wouldn't feel too comfortable doing lengthy rides in sandals.
All it takes is /one crash/...

Bill "modify current shoes, or buy some new ones that actually fit your
feet" S.

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to say anything
because I'm the exact opposite of an expert. Still, it sounds to me as
if his shoes are too big in some dimension or other -- too wide, too
long, or too deep.

My cycling shoes are *much* more snug than shoes I would want to walk
in; my big toe presses very lightly against the shoe. But that seems to
work well for me, because I get on the bike and forget about my feet.
If my feet slid back and forth inside the shoe, it would drive me nuts
too, and probably make my toes pretty sore (my left big toe is currently
injured, so the thought makes me wince).

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:57:21 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Don't mean to be ped-antic

Good one.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Bob in CT wrote:

Quoted message said:

:: Are you
:: really going to cycle a while in sandals?

Okay....that must be a loaded question....I think I'm going to cycle
while in sandals...is there a reason NOT to do that? The reason I
want to is that at about 60 miles on a hot day, my feet give me hell.
My shoes have just enough play in them to let my foot slip around, so
after the miles build up my feet hurt. Frankly, I had to cut my ride
short yesterday just because of this...so sandals seem like a good
option since my toes would be free....

I've cycled in sandals for years (Shimano sandals, SPD pedals). No
problems so far.

The size I use (47-48) is a tiny bit large on me, which isn't a problem
because I can cinch down the straps tight enough, and it also leaves
about 3/4" of sole continuing out beyond my toes. That's enough to
protect my toes if I get a wheel overlap, or if I have to dab the
ground. I wouldn't recommend getting a size where your toes are exposed
right at the end of the sandal.

The sole of the Shimano sandal is fairly stiff (with a rocker in the
tread so you can walk easily), but the straps are a little more flexible
than using full clipless road or MTB shoes. So it feels a little less
efficient when riding. I use my general-purpose clipless shoes when I'm
riding any real distance, and use the sandals for shorter rides...
usually no more than 10-20 miles. Maybe other sandals are stiffer? I'm
not sure I'd really want that anyway... the whole idea is to be
comfortable, and for shorter rides the sandals are great. I thought I'd
mention that, since you say your current problem is your foot moving
around too much. It might move even more in sandals. OTOH, if it's a
friction problem in the toe area, then maybe exposing the toes would be
just what you need.

--
Mike Barrs

Badger_South said:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:49:34 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Well, I don't know, but they are sold for cycling and hence I'd expect
them
to be. Nashbar had the Lake version and Performance had the Shimano
version.

I have similar issue about not covering my toes, but it's either pain or
comfort, as I see it. My butt and my feet are the limiting factors for
me
on long rides.

What about just getting better fitting cycling shoes? If your foot is
sliding around, then that's the fault of the shoe fit and not the fault
of
either the shoe, or your foot. That's not to say a different 'model' of
shoe might solve it, with better airflow or something.

IOW, if you had an ingrown toenail and your toe -hurt-, then maybe
sandals.
But to get sandals just b/c the shoe is too hot or not fitting seems like
avoiding the problem, rather than solving it.

Eventually, in the winter, when it cools down, you're gonna want shoes
that
fit, right?

He lives in Atlanta. Does Atlanta have "winter"? ;-)

Quoted message said:

Don't mean to be pedantic, just thinking aloud. ;-)

Also, again thinking aloud, what about stopping and changing your socks
at
the 1/2 way point? It might be you need a different type of sock -
something thinner, and more wicking?

Good luck!

-B

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

"S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I, for one, wouldn't feel too comfortable doing lengthy rides in
sandals. All it takes is /one crash/...

That's a good point. The toes (even with the sole overlap I mentioned) are
exposed on top, and could get messed up pretty bad if a crash threw them
into the drivetrain, or spokes, or just banging along the road surface.

It's a calculated risk, in return for the fun and comfort of riding in
sandals. I ride my bike for exercise and enjoyment, and sometimes sandals
just make the ride more fun. I do use the full shoes on longer/faster road
rides, or for any areas where I might do a little off-roading with rocks,
sharp sticks or other hazards on the trail. You just have to apply a little
common sense, and decide if a given ride will be okay in sandals, or not.

--
Mike Barrs

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:49:34 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
:::
::: Well, I don't know, but they are sold for cycling and hence I'd
::: expect them to be. Nashbar had the Lake version and Performance
::: had the Shimano version.
:::
::: I have similar issue about not covering my toes, but it's either
::: pain or comfort, as I see it. My butt and my feet are the limiting
::: factors for me on long rides.
::
:: What about just getting better fitting cycling shoes? If your foot is
:: sliding around, then that's the fault of the shoe fit and not the
:: fault of either the shoe, or your foot. That's not to say a
:: different 'model' of shoe might solve it, with better airflow or
:: something.

Well, these shoes fit -- more or less. Getting an exact fit in every
dimension is just not possible. With sandals, there will be nothing for my
toes to run into, hence problem solved. Also, the problem is somehow
related to heat as well. On my last three rides, which were also my longest
rides, on two days it was very hot and on the other it was not. The foot
problems existed on both of the hot days but not on the cooler day. Sandals
would again solve that problem.

Oh, these are cycling sandals, BTW.

::
:: IOW, if you had an ingrown toenail and your toe -hurt-, then maybe
:: sandals. But to get sandals just b/c the shoe is too hot or not
:: fitting seems like avoiding the problem, rather than solving it.

Why? What is wrong with sandals? This is a distance problem, not simply a
fit problem that is easily solved. In fact, I 'd venture to say that I've
generally have problems with shoes being right in lenght by not in width.
It gives rise to feet that then to move around more.

::
:: Eventually, in the winter, when it cools down, you're gonna want
:: shoes that fit, right?

Well, it will be cooler, so hopefully the shoes I have now will work.

::
:: Don't mean to be pedantic, just thinking aloud. ;-)
::
:: Also, again thinking aloud, what about stopping and changing your
:: socks at the 1/2 way point?

I stop and massage my feet. I'm not sure what good changing my sock would
do.

It might be you need a different type of
:: sock - something thinner, and more wicking?

Well, I'm currently wearing Defeet cycling socks...which supposedly do the
wicking. My feet don't seem wet at all after about 45 miles or so, so I
think the work more or less. I think the problem is that I just have
strange feet, somehow. I've worn these cycling shoes for bicycling since I
started last September, and I only noticed this problem once i got up to
about 60 miles on the hotter days. It's hard to know exactly what is
happenning, but I do know that it becomes hard to keep riding after my toes
start hurting.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.

Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with cleats?

No, pedals usually come with cleats.

Quoted message said:

Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my Shimano
SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?

Shimano cleats will work with Shimano pedals. There are basically 2 types"
"single-release" and "multi-release". I advise getting the former if you're
worried about pullouts, the latter if you're more concerned about easy exit.
They're both around $20, but they last a good long time.

SPD clones may or may not be compatible (read the fine print & trust it
sparingly). I've found the Wellgo "98A" cleats that come with some of their
pedals will work with Shimano pedals (they're single-release), they're about
1/2 the price of Shimano.

foldedpath wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:: news:[email hidden]:
::
::: Bob in CT wrote:
::
::::: Are you
::::: really going to cycle a while in sandals?
:::
::: Okay....that must be a loaded question....I think I'm going to cycle
::: while in sandals...is there a reason NOT to do that? The reason I
::: want to is that at about 60 miles on a hot day, my feet give me
::: hell. My shoes have just enough play in them to let my foot slip
::: around, so after the miles build up my feet hurt. Frankly, I had
::: to cut my ride short yesterday just because of this...so sandals
::: seem like a good option since my toes would be free....
::
:: I've cycled in sandals for years (Shimano sandals, SPD pedals). No
:: problems so far.
::
:: The size I use (47-48) is a tiny bit large on me, which isn't a
:: problem because I can cinch down the straps tight enough, and it
:: also leaves about 3/4" of sole continuing out beyond my toes. That's
:: enough to protect my toes if I get a wheel overlap, or if I have to
:: dab the ground. I wouldn't recommend getting a size where your toes
:: are exposed right at the end of the sandal.

Right. They seem to be designed to cup your feet and keep your toes away
from the edges of the sole.

::
:: The sole of the Shimano sandal is fairly stiff (with a rocker in the
:: tread so you can walk easily), but the straps are a little more
:: flexible than using full clipless road or MTB shoes. So it feels a
:: little less efficient when riding. I use my general-purpose clipless
:: shoes when I'm riding any real distance, and use the sandals for
:: shorter rides... usually no more than 10-20 miles. Maybe other
:: sandals are stiffer? I'm not sure I'd really want that anyway... the
:: whole idea is to be comfortable, and for shorter rides the sandals
:: are great. I thought I'd mention that, since you say your current
:: problem is your foot moving around too much. It might move even more
:: in sandals. OTOH, if it's a friction problem in the toe area, then
:: maybe exposing the toes would be just what you need.

Well, the way it see it, I won't know unless I try. Also, having an extra
pair of cycling shoes can't hurt and if I have to, I use them on short rides
too.

Peter Cole wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.
:::
::: Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
::: cleats?
::
:: No, pedals usually come with cleats.
::
::: Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
::: Shimano SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?
::
:: Shimano cleats will work with Shimano pedals. There are basically 2
:: types" "single-release" and "multi-release". I advise getting the
:: former if you're worried about pullouts, the latter if you're more
:: concerned about easy exit. They're both around $20, but they last a
:: good long time.

What do those two terms mean, "single-release" and "multi-release"?

Thanks.

S o r n i wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.
:::
::: Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
::: cleats? The pair on Nashbar state that they don't come with cleats,
::: but the pair at Performance don't state if they do or not. I'm
::: surprised to find that cleats cost around $20. I was not expecting
::: that as my LBS gave me a pair free to go with the shoes I bought
::: from them (or, maybe the cleats were included in the price, but as
::: it was some time before I actually went clipless they just gave
::: them to me then).
:::
::: Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
::: Shimano SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?
::
:: No, shoes do NOT come with cleats. Best bet is to find some SPD
:: cleats on sale somewhere and stock up.
::
:: While it might be cool (literally) to ride in sandals now and then,
:: I really wonder about your intended use (having read your other
:: post{s}). Just because the shoes you have now don't fit properly,
:: doesn't mean you should avoid all shoes!

I've had this problem with shoes for years...they never really fit right, I
just make do. However, when they start to hurt, action is needed.
Pedalling on a bicycle for 5 hours puts some unique demands on shoes and
feet, as well as highlighting poor fit conditions.

::
:: I, for one, wouldn't feel too comfortable doing lengthy rides in
:: sandals. All it takes is /one crash/...

Well, true....but I don't plan on crashing...and a lot of stuff can happen
on a crash...

::
:: Bill "modify current shoes, or buy some new ones that actually fit
:: your feet" S.

How, and how can be I sure they will actually fit and don't hurt after 60
miles? Remember, the one I have now "fit", then just don't fit well and
cause problems after so many miles.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: I'm trying to order a pair of cycling sandals that use SPD cleats.
:::
::: Is it typical for shoes that work with clipless pedals to come with
::: cleats?
::
:: No, pedals usually come with cleats.
::
::: Can I be sure that if I buy SPD cleats that will will work with my
::: Shimano SPD clipless pedals that came with my Specialized Sequoia?
::
:: Shimano cleats will work with Shimano pedals. There are basically 2
:: types" "single-release" and "multi-release". I advise getting the
:: former if you're worried about pullouts, the latter if you're more
:: concerned about easy exit. They're both around $20, but they last a
:: good long time.

What do those two terms mean, "single-release" and "multi-release"?

SR cleats release with a heel swing (in or out), MR release in that mode plus
also if you "roll" your foot. As a result, MR are easier to disengage, but
some find them more prone to unintentional release. What you prefer may be
personal, but also what your reflexes get conditioned to.

Roger Zoul said:

S o r n i wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I, for one, wouldn't feel too comfortable doing lengthy rides in
sandals. All it takes is /one crash/...

Well, true....but I don't plan on crashing...and a lot of stuff can
happen on a crash...

No one /plans/ on crashing, but we wear protective clothing just in case.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bill "modify current shoes, or buy some new ones that actually fit
your feet" S.

How, and how can be I sure they will actually fit and don't hurt
after 60 miles? Remember, the one I have now "fit", then just don't
fit well and cause problems after so many miles.

You described your feet as sliding forward in the shoes, causing significant
toe pain. Sure SOUNDS like a bad fit to me. Have you tried adjusting the
laces and/or straps to keep your feet stable? Are the shoes just plain too
big???

Bill "I have fit issues, too (narrow, flat dogs), so brand of shoe matters a
lot (Nikes and Shimanos seem to work best for me)" S.