Shoe Wear Pattern & Replacement

Quoted message said:

I have checked my two pairs of Gel Asics TN337, a trail shoe. All are
showing identical wear pattern. A spot on the outside of the midsole
(14 cm from toe of shoe) on one of the pairs has worn through the tread
layer, there is also some wear continuing forward of this spot along
the outside edge, rest of the sole looks fairly unworn.

Does this mean I am a supinator?

No.

Quoted message said:

Can anyone recommend current models to suit this wear pattern?

Not really. You need to get your gait looked at.

Quoted message said:

Is this normal and does it indicate any inefficiency in my running
style.

It means that those shoes aren't suitable for you.

Since trail shoes are already somewhat "stable", I would suggest getting your
feet close to the ground (lightweight trainer) and see if that helps. Also,
you should probably avoid any kind of trail shoe and most stability shoes with
that wear pattern (maybe light stability shoes are OK, but not the heavier ones)

So those are two strategies you could try -- lightweight trainer (NB 900, Mizuno
Precision, Asics DS Trainer, Saucony Swerve), or moderate cushioning shoe that
isn't overly mushy (Mizuno Rider, Asics Landreth), and see if that helps.

I think what you should avoid is heavy shoes with a medial post, and mushy
shoes. Both could aggravate the problem with the lateral side breaking down.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Is this a problem? You don't say if you are experiencing difficulties.
If not, why change? You are inventing a problem where none exists.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I have checked my two pairs of Gel Asics TN337, a trail shoe. All are
showing identical wear pattern. A spot on the outside of the midsole
(14 cm from toe of shoe) on one of the pairs has worn through the tread
layer, there is also some wear continuing forward of this spot along
the outside edge, rest of the sole looks fairly unworn.

Quoted message said:

Does this mean I am a supinator?

Without orthotics, my shoes wear this way. In my case the foot's neutral
position is not flat, but rather cambered inward, as if shinnying up a tree.

In order for the big toe to make contact and push off strongly, you have to
roll the inside of the foot inward quite a bit from it's neutral position,
which will tend to flatten the foot and twist the knee inward with each
stride.

I needed orthotics almost as soon as I started running, because this
adaptive motion would make my knees ache. If your knees and ankles are
fine, I'd look for a shoe which is supportive for over-pronating feet. If
you still have achy knees, or kneecap or foot pain, I'd go to a sports
podiatrist.

-- Dan

Dan Stumpus said:

I needed orthotics almost as soon as I started running, because this
adaptive motion would make my knees ache. If your knees and ankles are
fine, I'd look for a shoe which is supportive for over-pronating feet. If

I don't think that's going to work, which is why I recommended the
opposite-- that he avoids posted shoes (except possibly light models).
The problem is that as far as shoes go, "supportive" usually just means
"medial post", and a medial post will do more harm than good.

The problem with medial posts is that the medial side is harder than
the lateral side. But he's already compressing the lateral side more
and the medial side less, so the last thing that's going to help is
making the medial side stiffer. What a post will do is accelerate the
assymetric wear on the shoes (because the rubber in the post will take
longer to break down), so the shoes will get that tilt earlier in their
lifespan and he'll either be on a very frequent replacement schedule
or risk injury.

Two ways to avoid this problem are to avoid shoes that are too spongy in
the first place (because the extra sponge gives more room for lateral
rotation which you're trying to eliminate) and getting a lighter shoe (that is,
you can get real "stability" by putting the feet closer to the ground, and this
can help people who find medial posts unhelpful) . I've seen getting a lighter
shoe solve problems for people who had trouble with regular trainers, and
medial posts didn't help the problem (because that's one problem the post isn't
designed to solve).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Not really. You need to get your gait looked at.

Anything in particular to look out for?

Quoted message said:

you should probably avoid any kind of trail shoe and most stability shoes with

What physically is making the shoes 'stable'?

I liked this shoe, I had a good feel for the ground, seemed quite flat
and light (not a lot of cushioning) , and no wedgy heel. Problem at
the wear spot 'cos ther was a designed split (probably to allow sole
flexibility) in the sole between the two knobbles where I have worn out
the sole.

I am also running 90% in forest trails so I do not want a lot of
cushioning which would make the shoe unstable over uneven ground. I
like to be able to feel the terrain under the shoe.

Maybe I am confused with wanting stability on uneven ground and shoes
termed 'stability' shoes?

Yes this is the same wear pattern as on my shoes, on a re-check I also
have the same wear in the toe area. Pity I cannot say my half marathon
time is the same too.

anders said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does this mean I am a supinator?

No.

Does your terse reply mean that the OP is definitively not a supinator
or that the OP need not necessarily be one?

I meant the latter -- not necessarily but could be. Though if I were a betting
man, I'd bet on splayed feet or similar, and not "supination".

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

anders said:

What is the problem here?

The shoe is toast (-;

It looks like there's some bias towards the lateral side being worn, but not
too much. You still get the diagonal line with the medial side of the toe
getting plenty of wear. But not as much wear as you'd hope for under the ball
of the foot.

Quoted message said:

Which shoes would you recommend for training?

Something without a medial post. The shoe does show some extra wear on the
lateral side, but given that

(a) the effect is exaggerated because the shoe is way, way, way past its use by
date, and
(b) it's only a moderate effect anyway,

It's possible that if you went with an unposted shoe, you'd correct this. Maybe
even a shoe that's posted but with a smaller post.

Quoted message said:

Could he find happiness with a pair of Nike Air Zoom Elites, for

The zoom elite is posted. Some candidates would be Mizuno precision, Asics
Flash/Landreth, etc.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not really. You need to get your gait looked at.

Anything in particular to look out for?

pronation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you should probably avoid any kind of trail shoe and most stability shoes with

What physically is making the shoes 'stable'?

They don't twist easily.

Quoted message said:

I liked this shoe, I had a good feel for the ground, seemed quite flat
and light (not a lot of cushioning) ,

There's no such thing as a light trail shoe. Light trail shoes are called
"cross country flats".

Quoted message said:

I am also running 90% in forest trails so I do not want a lot of
cushioning which would make the shoe unstable over uneven ground. I

All the more reason to go with a lightweight trainer.

Quoted message said:

like to be able to feel the terrain under the shoe.

Again, all the more reason to go with a more flexible shoe (the absolute
opposite extreme to a trail brick!)

Quoted message said:

Maybe I am confused with wanting stability on uneven ground and shoes
termed 'stability' shoes?

Yep. A shoe will not give you stability on uneven ground.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

The shoe is toast (-;

I must admit that my first thought was that the shoe had been used for
skateboarding or some such activity after serving out its running life!

The owner could use the picture for a nice screensaver, though:-)

Quoted message said:

It looks like there's some bias towards the lateral side being worn, but not
too much. You still get the diagonal line with the medial side of the toe
getting plenty of wear. But not as much wear as you'd hope for under the ball
of the foot.

Quite, the ball of the foot is where my shoesalesguy always says he´s
glad to see wear (and then he proceeds to castigate me for not being
serious enough about doing something about my tight hamstrings...).

Quoted message said:

It's possible that if you went with an unposted shoe, you'd correct this.Maybe
even a shoe that's posted but with a smaller post.

FWIW the medial post in the Adidas is supposed to be small and only in
the "rear part" of the shoe, but OTOH it might not still be
"effectively small".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Could he find happiness with a pair of Nike Air Zoom Elites, for

Quoted message said:

The zoom elite is posted. Some candidates would be Mizuno precision, Asics
Flash/Landreth, etc.

Well, it appears he´s already bought the Nikes, so in the worst case
we will perhaps see a new picture by November:-) OTOH they are
relatively flat and have (I believe) a smaller heel-forefoot height
difference, and if indeed his particular manner of overpronation would
be best fixed by going "flat and neutral", at least he´s gone a step
in the right direction...

Anders