Shimano Special Pin Design

BobT said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they do.
Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect rather
some type of quick link?

Shimano generally dislikes paying royalties for outside inventions...a
version of the "N.I.H. syndrome."

Also, it's cheaper to make that way.

Sheldon "Follow The Money" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| Well, the truth is usually just |
| an excuse for a lack of imagination... |
| --Garak, DS-9 |
+-----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

BobT said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they do.
Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect rather
some type of quick link?

BobT

the pin is non-reusable because both the pin and the side plate
experience some deformation in assembly. that's fine when used once
because the fit is snug. on re-use however, the combined distortion on
assembly, disassembly and assembly again is such that the side plate is
no longer held sufficiently tight to guarantee sufficient resistance to
the "pop off" force it experiences at maximum chain angles.

i don't like quick-links because i've had one chain fall apart and
another give shifting problems with them. i'm perfectly happy with the
shimano system, but then again, i never clean chains in solvent so i'm
not constantly removing them. others love them, but that's got nothing
to do with chain function, just convenience that accords with their idea
of maintainability.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they
do. Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect
rather some type of quick link?

Shimano generally dislikes paying royalties for outside inventions...a
version of the "N.I.H. syndrome."

Also, it's cheaper to make that way.

You really think it's cheaper to make a quick-disconnect link than their
special pin? As for royalties, you're not kind enough... it's not that they
"generally dislike" paying them... they disdain royalties with the passion
of a thousand burning suns (as my daughter would say).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BobT said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they
do. Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect
rather some type of quick link?

Shimano generally dislikes paying royalties for outside inventions...a
version of the "N.I.H. syndrome."

Also, it's cheaper to make that way.

Sheldon "Follow The Money" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| Well, the truth is usually just |
| an excuse for a lack of imagination... |
| --Garak, DS-9 |
+-----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they
do. Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect
rather some type of quick link?

Shimano generally dislikes paying royalties for outside inventions...a
version of the "N.I.H. syndrome."

Also, it's cheaper to make that way.

You really think it's cheaper to make a quick-disconnect link than their
special pin? As for royalties, you're not kind enough... it's not that they
"generally dislike" paying them... they disdain royalties with the passion
of a thousand burning suns (as my daughter would say).

If they make them easier to service, they won't sell as many chains.

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they
do. Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect
rather some type of quick link?

Shimano generally dislikes paying royalties for outside inventions...a
version of the "N.I.H. syndrome."

Also, it's cheaper to make that way.

You really think it's cheaper to make a quick-disconnect link than their
special pin? As for royalties, you're not kind enough... it's not that they

Nah, he thinks it's cheaper to make the special pins than the special
links. I think, anyway, since that would make sense, and is also the way
one would usually read that sentence.

Quoted message said:

"generally dislike" paying them... they disdain royalties with the passion
of a thousand burning suns (as my daughter would say).

And not even as a sound business decision, necessarily. Shimano could
negotiate pretty damn low royalties on things they were willing to put
into true series production. It seems that they're just really into the
vision of themselves as monopolistic Evil Empire -- sort of a Microsoft
for bikes.

Jasper

"BobT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:dMzZe.26775$tT.8438@okepread02...

Quoted message said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they
do. Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect
rather some type of quick link?

BobT

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I find it improbable that the explanation for a
special non-reusable press-in pin in the Shimano Dura Ace Chain, part of an
over $1,000 group, is simply that the company is crappy and wants to make
cheap chains, does not care, intentionally wants to make it hard to service
so that more chains are sold, etc. Is there really not any
design/engineering rationale, even if many experts don't agree and prefer
SRAM, Conex, etc.

BobT

To [censored] Peter off :-) and to give Campy a small victory in head to head
comparisons.

BobT said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they do.
Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect rather
some type of quick link?

BobT

BobT said:

After having read several threads about taking chains apart and quick
connect links et cetera, I wondered why Shimano chains work the way they do.
Why do Shimano chains use a special, non-resuable, pin to connect rather
some type of quick link?

BobT

To add a little history: when Shimano first came out with "Hyperglide"
ramped cogs (1989), there were no special chains required. The chains
were the standard push-the-pin-in type.

Many people experienced chain failures while shifting under power. I
recall attending a meeting put on by Shimano's Wayne Stetina
(ostensibly to introduce the next year's components- this was
mid-summer) and he was hammered by a couple shop owners who claimed to
have "boxes" of chains they had replaced on customer's bikes- and were
wondering if Shimano was going to replace the chain on warranty.

I think Shimano came out with the special Hyperglide pin very quickly
once the chain failure bugaboo appeared. I would *guess* that it's
easier to engineer than a quick-type link, and a solution was needed
quickly. Also, I don't remember *any* derailleur quick-links being
available then (except maybe the Craig's Super-Link), so derailleur
"master links" were an unknown quantity. The SRAM quick-links came out
in the late '90's, I think.

So, the reason Shimano uses a special pin is that it works, and it's
worked for many years. They probably don't see the need to change.

FWIW: I've got SRAM chains on all my bikes, and they work fine with my
eclectic collection of equipment.

Jeff

BobT said:

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I find it improbable that the explanation for a
special non-reusable press-in pin in the Shimano Dura Ace Chain, part of an
over $1,000 group, is simply that the company is crappy and wants to make
cheap chains, does not care, intentionally wants to make it hard to service
so that more chains are sold, etc. Is there really not any
design/engineering rationale, even if many experts don't agree and prefer
SRAM, Conex, etc.

Most people in top-level racing (Dura Ace is a top-level racing
group) wash the chain on the bike. They don't repeatedly take the
chain on and off. So the chains are built to install well.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

BobT said:

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I find it improbable that the explanation for a
special non-reusable press-in pin in the Shimano Dura Ace Chain, part of an
over $1,000 group, is simply that the company is crappy and wants to make
cheap chains, does not care, intentionally wants to make it hard to service
so that more chains are sold, etc. Is there really not any
design/engineering rationale, even if many experts don't agree and prefer
SRAM, Conex, etc.

Most people in top-level racing (Dura Ace is a top-level racing
group) wash the chain on the bike. They don't repeatedly take the
chain on and off. So the chains are built to install well.

I'm sure this works well in most cases. I ride 4000+mi/year on a dusty
limestone trail. I cannot keep the chain clean *on* the bike, therefore
I cannot use Shimano chains.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Most people in top-level racing (Dura Ace is a top-level racing
group) wash the chain on the bike. They don't repeatedly take the
chain on and off. So the chains are built to install well.

I'm sure this works well in most cases. I ride 4000+mi/year on a dusty
limestone trail. I cannot keep the chain clean *on* the bike, therefore
I cannot use Shimano chains.

If you cleaned your bike the way the Discovery Team does, you certainly
could clean it (and everything else) on the bike. However, you'd also
frequently be replacing shot wheel & bottom bracket bearings.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"chuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

BobT said:

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I find it improbable that the explanation
for a
special non-reusable press-in pin in the Shimano Dura Ace Chain, part of
an
over $1,000 group, is simply that the company is crappy and wants to make
cheap chains, does not care, intentionally wants to make it hard to
service
so that more chains are sold, etc. Is there really not any
design/engineering rationale, even if many experts don't agree and prefer
SRAM, Conex, etc.

Most people in top-level racing (Dura Ace is a top-level racing
group) wash the chain on the bike. They don't repeatedly take the
chain on and off. So the chains are built to install well.

I'm sure this works well in most cases. I ride 4000+mi/year on a dusty
limestone trail. I cannot keep the chain clean *on* the bike, therefore
I cannot use Shimano chains.

BobT said:

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I find it improbable that the explanation for a
special non-reusable press-in pin in the Shimano Dura Ace Chain, part of an
over $1,000 group, is simply that the company is crappy and wants to make
cheap chains, does not care, intentionally wants to make it hard to service
so that more chains are sold, etc. Is there really not any
design/engineering rationale, even if many experts don't agree and prefer
SRAM, Conex, etc.

They know everyone uses SRAM Powerlinks on their Shimano chains.