Shimano Restricting Component Internet Sales?

"Grenouil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Was just browsing the QBP catalog at aebike.comaebike.comOpen ↗ . All the Shimano components in this
catalog now carry a note.....

"This manufacturer currently prefers that we not sell this item via the internet. Please call for
more information."

Does this mean we can now only buy Shimano parts through Shimano authorized distributors?

Yup, or at your local bike shop....

Grenouil said:

Was just browsing the QBP catalog at aebike.comaebike.comOpen ↗ . All the Shimano components in this
catalog now carry a note.....

"This manufacturer currently prefers that we not sell this item via the internet. Please call for
more information."

Does this mean we can now only buy Shimano parts through Shimano authorized distributors?

That is the official Shimano policy, has been in effect for several months. There are a dozen or so
Shimano Authorized Internet Retailers.

I'm pleased to say that Harris Cyclery is one of them.

Sheldon "Authorized" Brown +-------------------------------------------------+
| Search the Quality Bicycle Products Catalog | and order on line: |
| sheldonbrown.comqualityOpen ↗ |
+-------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Grenouil said:

Was just browsing the QBP catalog at aebike.comaebike.comOpen ↗ . All the Shimano components in this
catalog now carry a note.....

"This manufacturer currently prefers that we not sell this item via the internet. Please call for
more information."

Does this mean we can now only buy Shimano parts through Shimano authorized distributors?

Well, Shimano is hardly alone in this. Many name brand companies put restrictions on Internet sales
of their products.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Grenouil
Was just browsing the QBP catalog at aebike.comaebike.comOpen ↗ . All the Shimano components in this catalog
now carry a note.....

"This manufacturer currently prefers that we not sell this item via the internet. Please call for
more information."

Does this mean we can now only buy Shimano parts through Shimano authorized distributors?

Since it says Internet instead of mail or catalog orders and since it says to “call” it raises the question are they still taking phone orders as an alternative to Internet sales or merely supplying more information?

“[P]refer” sounds tantamount to an implied threat to the retailer to me.

Sounds analogous to the old Soni and Coors distribution practices to me.

Anyone know if Shimano is trying this same tactic in the EU?

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many manufacturers like Sony, Nikon, Shimano,
etc., "fix" prices by establishing "authorized" dealers or "minimum advertised prices". If a
dealer violates the minimum advertised price (which is perfectly legal), they will find their
supply cut off.

This is the reason, that an item costs exactly the same at Best Buy, Circuit City, or another store.

Shimano, is controlling the pricing and the supply by designating "authorized" dealers. I wish
someone would investigate this "minimum advertised pricing" and "authorized dealers" and pass a law
preventing it. In a free market, sales should go to the lowest bidder and most efficient seller, not
at a price and supply level set by a manufacturer. (This sounds like the former Soviet Union
economic policies).

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many manufacturers like Sony, Nikon, Shimano, etc.,
"fix" prices by establishing "authorized" dealers or "minimum advertised prices".

False. Price fixing is only illegal if *more than one* manufacturer agree to sell different, but
competitive products at the same price.

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many manufacturers like

Sony,

Quoted message said:

Nikon, Shimano, etc., "fix" prices by establishing "authorized"

dealers or

Quoted message said:

"minimum advertised prices". If a dealer violates the minimum

advertised

Quoted message said:

price (which is perfectly legal), they will find their supply cut

off.

Quoted message said:

This is the reason, that an item costs exactly the same at Best

Buy, Circuit

Quoted message said:

City, or another store.

Shimano, is controlling the pricing and the supply by designating "authorized" dealers. I wish
someone would investigate this

"minimum

Quoted message said:

advertised pricing" and "authorized dealers" and pass a law

preventing it.

Quoted message said:

In a free market, sales should go to the lowest bidder and most

efficient

Quoted message said:

seller, not at a price and supply level set by a manufacturer.

(This sounds

Quoted message said:

like the former Soviet Union economic policies).

I assume you mean "highest bidder" In a free market the manufacturer can sell the product at
whatever the market will bear. If you object to their pricing, buy a competing product. That is
capitalism.

Jonathan Kaplan said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many manufacturers like Sony, Nikon, Shimano, etc.,
"fix" prices by establishing "authorized" dealers or "minimum advertised prices". If a dealer
violates the minimum advertised price (which is perfectly legal), they will find their supply
cut off.

Under certain circumstances, selling below that price is not in fact legal. If the sale is
international, it can be called "dumping" and that is illegal. This may be the reasoning behind
Shimano's strategy- after all, it makes no difference to them. They get the same price from
wholesale; it's the seller who makes less money to undersell the prices of the competition.

Quoted message said:

This is the reason, that an item costs exactly the same at Best Buy, Circuit City, or
another store.

Shimano, is controlling the pricing and the supply by designating "authorized" dealers. I wish
someone would investigate this "minimum advertised pricing" and "authorized dealers" and pass a
law preventing it.

Bingo. It's not illegal. It's part of supply side economics. It's probably also a way to control
warranty risks better. In taking a step like this, Shimano is doing what it's supposed to do: watch
out for the interests of its owners.

Quoted message said:

In a free market, sales should go to the lowest bidder and most efficient seller, not at a price
and supply level set by a manufacturer. (This sounds like the former Soviet Union economic
policies).

In a free market, sales go where the customer wants to spend his or her money. That may not be the
lowest bidder nor the most efficient seller.

Now, you wanna talk price fixing? Let's talk pharmaceuticals.

cheg said:

In a free market the manufacturer can sell the product at whatever the market will bear. If you
object to their pricing, buy a competing product. That is capitalism.

Umm, no. That's not capitalism. It's a free (retail) market. Those are not the same things.

False -- both of you. The question, irrespective of whether you refer to inter- or intra- brand
competition, is whether there is an agreement in restraint of trade that violates Section 1 of the
Sherman Act.

So long as a manufacturer like Shimano acts unilaterally -- say by terminating retailers who sell
over the internet, or at prices below minimum suggested retail prices, there is no agreement in
restraint of trade.

The result, as a retailer, you remain free to sell at any price you choose, or through any retail
channel, but you may lose your supply of product in the future should Shimano find out!

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many manufacturers like Sony, Nikon, Shimano, etc.,
"fix" prices by establishing "authorized" dealers or "minimum advertised prices".

False. Price fixing is only illegal if *more than one* manufacturer agree

to

Quoted message said:

sell different, but competitive products at the same price.

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cheg said:

In a free market the manufacturer can sell the product at

whatever

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the market will bear. If you object to their pricing, buy a competing product. That is
capitalism.

Umm, no. That's not capitalism. It's a free (retail) market.

Those

Quoted message said:

are not the same things.

In contrast to " the former Soviet Union economic policies", i.e. Communism.

Grenoil-<< Was just browsing the QBP catalog at aebike.comaebike.comOpen ↗ . All the Shimano components in
this catalog now carry a note.....

"This manufacturer currently prefers that we not sell this item via the internet. Please call for
more information."

Does this mean we can now only buy Shimano parts through Shimano authorized distributors? >><BR><BR>

That is correct, to try to reduce/eliminate OEM resale to MO..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Jonathan Kaplan said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many manufacturers like Sony, Nikon, Shimano, etc.,
"fix" prices by establishing "authorized" dealers or "minimum advertised prices". If a dealer
violates the minimum advertised price (which is perfectly legal), they will find their supply
cut off.

People like Sony, Shimano Nikon want to make their product available thru good retailers who will be
around to deal with customers problems, stock spares and sort out warrenty problems.

If a retailer is to sell shimano stuff well, they have to invest in a fair amount of stock, display
it weel and be prepared to spend time with customers.

If Grey Imports Inc advertise shimano stuff at OEM prices the authorised dealer will be unable to
compete and will dump their stock and move on to sell something else.

The end result is that shimano will sell less gear without the shop window and service of the
authorised dealer.

The Grey Importer will also sell less gear without the marketing effort put in by the
authorised retailer.

Shimano are protecting their long term buisness partners. There's nothing wrong with that.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this: Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
home.in.tum.deoe quotefixOpen ↗

Tim McNamara said:

cheg said:

In a free market the manufacturer can sell the product at whatever the market will bear. If you
object to their pricing, buy a competing product. That is capitalism.

Umm, no. That's not capitalism. It's a free (retail) market. Those are not the same things.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ken
"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many manufacturers like Sony, Nikon, Shimano, etc.,
"fix" prices by establishing "authorized" dealers or "minimum advertised prices".

False. Price fixing is only illegal if *more than one* manufacturer agree to sell different, but
competitive products at the same price.

Sorry, I think that Jonathan Kaplan is right on this one. Your definition of price fixing is correct, but you need to remove the word *only*.

gwhite gwhite@hocuspocus_ti.com said:

Tim McNamara said:

cheg said:

In a free market the manufacturer can sell the product at whatever the market will bear. If you
object to their pricing, buy a competing product. That is capitalism.

Umm, no. That's not capitalism. It's a free (retail) market. Those are not the same things.

Nice to see you maintaining the edge on that rapier wit!

"BaCardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ken said:

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in

news:ha6dnd-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]:news:ha6dndu-3rhb9E-iRVn-hQ@comcast. com:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many

manufacturers like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sony, Nikon, Shimano, etc., "fix" prices by establishing

"authorized"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dealers or "minimum advertised prices".

False. Price fixing is only illegal if *more than one*

manufacturer

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

agree to sell different, but competitive products at the

same price.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, I think that Jonathan Kaplan is right on this one. Your definition of price fixing is
correct, but you need to remove

the

Quoted message said:

word *only*.

A manufacturer who fixes the retail price of its goods by agreement with a retail seller is subject
to liability for price fixing. What others have mentioned is that a manufacturer may legitimately
terminate a dealership agreement with a dealer who sells below MSRP because that dealer cannot
generate enough revenue to meet its warranty or other dealership obligations. The Su-preem Court has
said that it is not per se "price fixing" to terminate the dealership agreement of a price-cutter if
there are good non-price fixing reasons for doing so. Absent a per se rule of illegality, plaintiffs
may have a tougher time proving that a non-price vertical restraint amounts to "price fixing" under
the Sherman Act. This is my take on the case law, although I do not do antitrust. -- Jay Beattie.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jay Beattie
"BaCardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ken said:

"Jonathan Kaplan" <[email hidden]> wrote in

news:ha6dnd-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]:news:ha6dndu-3rhb9E-iRVn-hQ@comcast. com:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Price fixing is supposed to be illegal, yet many

manufacturers like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sony, Nikon, Shimano, etc., "fix" prices by establishing

"authorized"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dealers or "minimum advertised prices".

False. Price fixing is only illegal if *more than one*

manufacturer

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

agree to sell different, but competitive products at the

same price.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, I think that Jonathan Kaplan is right on this one. Your definition of price fixing is
correct, but you need to remove

the

Quoted message said:

word *only*.

A manufacturer who fixes the retail price of its goods by agreement with a retail seller is subject
to liability for price fixing. What others have mentioned is that a manufacturer may legitimately
terminate a dealership agreement with a dealer who sells below MSRP because that dealer cannot
generate enough revenue to meet its warranty or other dealership obligations. The Su-preem Court has
said that it is not per se "price fixing" to terminate the dealership agreement of a price-cutter if
there are good non-price fixing reasons for doing so. Absent a per se rule of illegality, plaintiffs
may have a tougher time proving that a non-price vertical restraint amounts to "price fixing" under
the Sherman Act. This is my take on the case law, although I do not do antitrust. -- Jay Beattie.

You have the right idea, but price fixing is not exclusive of terms of said practices. What Shimano is allegedly doing, if proven true, can be deemed as price fixing. The problem with price fixing is that it is very hard to prove in a court of law. The Sherman Anti-Trust act is dated and is more applicable to the monopolistic powers of companies that commit other types of violations, not only price fixing, itself.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Grenouil
Was just browsing the QBP catalog at aebike.comaebike.comOpen ↗ . All the Shimano components in this catalog
now carry a note.....

"This manufacturer currently prefers that we not sell this item via the internet. Please call for
more information."

Does this mean we can now only buy Shimano parts through Shimano authorized distributors?

so does this mean that if a buy shimano components on ebay that they will not be covered under shimano's standard US warranty? The actual text of shimano's warranty makes no direct reference to "authorized" dealers, the only mention it makes to dealers at all is this:

"To obtain service under this warranty, you must send your Shimano product together with the retail seller's original bill, your charge or credit receipt or other satisfactory proof of the date of purchase of the product to Shimano American Corporation"

the full text of the warranty is here:
http://bike.shimano.com/services/warranty.asp