Shimano Octalink road BB future

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years they
will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd, that
they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the '105
and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one above.

Maybe the Ultegra Bottom Bracket Machine wore out because that
item was so popular, and they don't want to replace it :-)

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom bracket
replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through the
war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an Ultegra
Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light goes
on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years they
will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd, that
they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the '105
and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one above.
The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price diff
between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet to
figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used them
in my own bike).

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality (only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

Quoted message said:

This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom bracket
replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through the
war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an Ultegra
Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light goes
on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

Quoted message said:

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years they
will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd, that
they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the '105
and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one above.
The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price diff
between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet to
figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used them
in my own bike).

Quoted message said:

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality (only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As someone who is going to select the components and frame for his
next bike, is it going to be smarter to choose campy components
instead???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
(only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Seems they want to keep the DuraAce option going for quite some time.
Shimano doesn't always let you know what they're up to (rarely, in fact),
but for the most part, when they said they'd do something, that's what they
do. And they say they're going to keep making DuraAce Octalink bottom
brackets available for many years. Of course, google will keep this post
around until the end of time, so 6 or 7 years from now someone's going to
dig this up and either say "I told you so" or "I told you so." :>😉

Quoted message said:

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

Hard to believe they continue to be slow with the compact crank. You'd think
they'd use the carbon option as a way of getting a high-priced compact
option to market in a big way. Then again, you would think they'd look at
the demand for the 11-28 SRAM 10-speed cassettes and want to get in on some
of that action! For the other stuff, I'm not quite so concerned about
mountain bike replacement parts, because the way they're ridden, well, most
of them don't live a very charmed life and replacement of the rest of the
assembly happens more often than it does with road components. It will
mostly be a pain for that person who doesn't ride much and comes in with an
almost-new 10-year-old bike with a problem. As now happens for suspension
forks on 4-year-old bikes.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom bracket
replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through
the
war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an
Ultegra
Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light
goes
on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years
they
will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd,
that
they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the
'105
and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one
above.
The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price
diff
between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet
to
figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used
them
in my own bike).

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
(only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

mike said:

On Sep 12, 8:19 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"

Quoted message said:

On Sep 12, 12:29 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom bracket
replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through the
war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an Ultegra
Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light goes
on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years they
will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd, that
they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the '105
and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one above.
The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price diff
between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet to
figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used them
in my own bike).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality (only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Quoted message said:

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

As someone who is going to select the components and frame for his
next bike, is it going to be smarter to choose campy components
instead???

No necessarily altho I will always vote for Campagnolo due to
rebuildable and maintanable levers. Many more compacts, better levers,
true long cage RDers, 29t big cogs, better BB/crank design is why I
would choose Campagnolo.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom bracket
replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through the
war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an Ultegra
Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light goes
on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years they
will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd, that
they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the '105
and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one above.
The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price diff
between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet to
figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used them
in my own bike).

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality (only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Thanks. I just peed away a good chunk of Tuesday on that same question.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
(only thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is
black instead of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost
of a '105 is around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Thanks. I just peed away a good chunk of Tuesday on that same question.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I guess I ought to post this info on the NBDA dealer e-list. You ought to
consider joining that list; lots of good information there.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
(only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Seems they want to keep the DuraAce option going for quite some time.
Shimano doesn't always let you know what they're up to (rarely, in fact),
but for the most part, when they said they'd do something, that's what they
do. And they say they're going to keep making DuraAce Octalink bottom
brackets available for many years. Of course, google will keep this post
around until the end of time, so 6 or 7 years from now someone's going to
dig this up and either say "I told you so" or "I told you so." :>😉

Quoted message said:

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

Hard to believe they continue to be slow with the compact crank. You'd think
they'd use the carbon option as a way of getting a high-priced compact
option to market in a big way. Then again, you would think they'd look at
the demand for the 11-28 SRAM 10-speed cassettes and want to get in on

some

Quoted message said:

of that action! For the other stuff, I'm not quite so concerned about
mountain bike replacement parts, because the way they're ridden, well, most
of them don't live a very charmed life and replacement of the rest of the
assembly happens more often than it does with road components. It will
mostly be a pain for that person who doesn't ride much and comes in with an
almost-new 10-year-old bike with a problem. As now happens for suspension
forks on 4-year-old bikes.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email hidden]> wrote

in

Quoted message said:

message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Sep 12, 12:29 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom

bracket

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through
the
war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an
Ultegra
Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light
goes
on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years
they
will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd,
that
they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the
'105
and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one
above.
The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price
diff
between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet
to
figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used
them
in my own bike).

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
(only
thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
instead
of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

With 50/34 compact cranks the 11-28 makes so much sense. It is hard to
figure why Shimano would not go this route. 50-12 really doesn't cut it, 50-11
is higher then 53-12 and works fine. On the low end having the 28 is nice and
works fine with modern short-cage derailleurs, I'm currently running such a
setup w/ a DA7700 front and DA7800 short-cage RD . . . works fine though it is
a 9-speed system.

Quoted message said:

So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore.

You can still buy them online in Europe if you really need one. I stock 10
Ital 9s 109.5mm OCtalink Ultegra BB and 3 BSA ones, just in case....

Derk

On Sep 12, 6:10 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
(only thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is
black instead of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost
of a '105 is around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Quoted message said:

Thanks. I just peed away a good chunk of Tuesday on that same question.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I guess I ought to post this info on the NBDA dealer e-list. You ought to
consider joining that list; lots of good information there.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Not to me but Andy but we used to belong and dern near every bit of
info related to the 'big shop sceanrio' that was
trekspecializedgiantcannondale..didn't really apply, at least to
Vecchio's..I'll let Andy speak for himself, but I wonder how
applkicable NBDA would be for him either.

RS said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
> from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
> doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
> (only
> thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
> instead
> of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
> around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Seems they want to keep the DuraAce option going for quite some time.
Shimano doesn't always let you know what they're up to (rarely, in fact),
but for the most part, when they said they'd do something, that's what they
do. And they say they're going to keep making DuraAce Octalink bottom
brackets available for many years. Of course, google will keep this post
around until the end of time, so 6 or 7 years from now someone's going to
dig this up and either say "I told you so" or "I told you so." :>😉

Quoted message said:

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

Hard to believe they continue to be slow with the compact crank. You'd think
they'd use the carbon option as a way of getting a high-priced compact
option to market in a big way. Then again, you would think they'd look at
the demand for the 11-28 SRAM 10-speed cassettes and want to get in on

some

Quoted message said:

of that action! For the other stuff, I'm not quite so concerned about
mountain bike replacement parts, because the way they're ridden, well, most
of them don't live a very charmed life and replacement of the rest of the
assembly happens more often than it does with road components. It will
mostly be a pain for that person who doesn't ride much and comes in with an
almost-new 10-year-old bike with a problem. As now happens for suspension
forks on 4-year-old bikes.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email hidden]> wrote

in

Quoted message said:

message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Sep 12, 12:29 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> This is probably old news to everyone here but me...
>
> This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom

bracket

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through
> the
> war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an
> Ultegra
> Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
> Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
> distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light
> goes
> on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?
>
> So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
> manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years
> they
> will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd,
> that
> they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the
> '105
> and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one
> above.
> The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price
> diff
> between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
> something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet
> to
> figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used
> them
> in my own bike).
>
> So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
> from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
> doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
> (only
> thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
> instead
> of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
> around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
all.

Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

With 50/34 compact cranks the 11-28 makes so much sense. It is hard to
figure why Shimano would not go this route. 50-12 really doesn't cut it, 50-11
is higher then 53-12 and works fine. On the low end having the 28 is nice and
works fine with modern short-cage derailleurs, I'm currently running such a
setup w/ a DA7700 front and DA7800 short-cage RD . . . works fine though it is
a 9-speed system.

compact makes no sense. any reasonably fit rider on a reasonable bike
can push 39-27 up virtually any hill. if you're not fit enough, or are
touring or mountaineering, you should be using a triple.

from an engineers viewpoint, any cog less than 13 is ugly. compacts
ensure you use 12 & 11 regularly - cringe.

On 2007-09-13, jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

compact makes no sense. any reasonably fit rider on a reasonable bike
can push 39-27 up virtually any hill. if you're not fit enough, or are
touring or mountaineering, you should be using a triple.

from an engineers viewpoint, any cog less than 13 is ugly. compacts
ensure you use 12 & 11 regularly - cringe.

What's wrong with 12 & 11?

jim beam napisa (a):

Quoted message said:

compact makes no sense. any reasonably fit rider on a reasonable bike
can push 39-27 up virtually any hill. if you're not fit enough, or are
touring or mountaineering, you should be using a triple.

Questionable. I am using a compact 46-34 on a 14-28 rear. Thank you
very much.

Regards
--
Adam Kadlubek

Ben C napisa (a):

Quoted message said:

What's wrong with 12 & 11?

A jump between 15 and 14 is about 7%. A jump between 12 and 11 is 9%.
When riding at 12T cog you are at high power levels - so you'd prefer
closer jump (7% or less) to next gear for better inertia management,
and 11 is 9% away, which might knock you out from your pace.

Simply put - a jump between 12 and 11 is so huge, that 11 is usable
just for spinning downhill, which makes me not bother with it in the
first place.

Regards
--
Adam Kadlubek

In article <[email hidden]>,

RS said:

With 50/34 compact cranks the 11-28 makes so much sense. It is hard
to figure why Shimano would not go this route. 50-12 really doesn't
cut it, 50-11 is higher then 53-12 and works fine. On the low end
having the 28 is nice and works fine with modern short-cage
derailleurs, I'm currently running such a setup w/ a DA7700 front and
DA7800 short-cage RD . . . works fine though it is a 9-speed system.

Because officially, Shimano says the max cog size for their road
derailleurs is 27 tooth.

jim beam said:

RS said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
>> from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
>> doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
>> (only
>> thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
>> instead
>> of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
>> around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
> low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
> NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
> now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
> older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
> all.
Seems they want to keep the DuraAce option going for quite some time.
Shimano doesn't always let you know what they're up to (rarely, in fact),
but for the most part, when they said they'd do something, that's what they
do. And they say they're going to keep making DuraAce Octalink bottom
brackets available for many years. Of course, google will keep this post
around until the end of time, so 6 or 7 years from now someone's going to
dig this up and either say "I told you so" or "I told you so." :>😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
> to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
> XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
> 7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.
Hard to believe they continue to be slow with the compact crank. You'd think
they'd use the carbon option as a way of getting a high-priced compact
option to market in a big way. Then again, you would think they'd look at
the demand for the 11-28 SRAM 10-speed cassettes and want to get in on

some

Quoted message said:

of that action! For the other stuff, I'm not quite so concerned about
mountain bike replacement parts, because the way they're ridden, well, most
of them don't live a very charmed life and replacement of the rest of the
assembly happens more often than it does with road components. It will
mostly be a pain for that person who doesn't ride much and comes in with an
almost-new 10-year-old bike with a problem. As now happens for suspension
forks on 4-year-old bikes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email hidden]> wrote

in

Quoted message said:

message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> On Sep 12, 12:29 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

>> This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom

bracket

Quoted message said:

>> replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through
>> the
>> war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an
>> Ultegra
>> Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
>> Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
>> distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light
>> goes
>> on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
>> manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years
>> they
>> will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd,
>> that
>> they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the
>> '105
>> and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one
>> above.
>> The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price
>> diff
>> between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
>> something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet
>> to
>> figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used
>> them
>> in my own bike).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
>> from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
>> doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
>> (only
>> thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
>> instead
>> of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
>> around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
> low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
> NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
> now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
> older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
> all.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
> to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
> XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
> 7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

Quoted message said:

With 50/34 compact cranks the 11-28 makes so much sense. It is hard to
figure why Shimano would not go this route. 50-12 really doesn't cut it, 50-11
is higher then 53-12 and works fine. On the low end having the 28 is nice and
works fine with modern short-cage derailleurs, I'm currently running such a
setup w/ a DA7700 front and DA7800 short-cage RD . . . works fine though it is
a 9-speed system.

compact makes no sense.

Quoted message said:

From a practical standpoint, they don't make much sense. But, they

sell because the wannabes want lower gears without the "stigma" of a
triple, IMO.

Quoted message said:

any reasonably fit rider on a reasonable bike
can push 39-27 up virtually any hill.

And, a 39 (or even 38)/30 is usually possible if you put together a
"custom" cassette from Miche, etc.

Quoted message said:

if you're not fit enough, or are
touring or mountaineering, you should be using a triple.

IMO, an excellent case can be made for a, say, 50/40/26 triple with a
close ratio 12-23 or 12/25 cassette, even for a "road bike".

Quoted message said:

from an engineers viewpoint, any cog less than 13 is ugly. compacts
ensure you use 12 & 11 regularly - cringe.

Ben C said:

On 2007-09-13, jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

compact makes no sense. any reasonably fit rider on a reasonable bike
can push 39-27 up virtually any hill. if you're not fit enough, or are
touring or mountaineering, you should be using a triple.

from an engineers viewpoint, any cog less than 13 is ugly. compacts
ensure you use 12 & 11 regularly - cringe.

What's wrong with 12 & 11?

You get nasty vibrations as they are dozensided or worse ie not round.
Try the same gear with bigger rings and you'll find it will run a lot
smoother

Stick a 14-25 or something on your bike and unless you're a racer or
extremely fit you might be pleasantly surprised

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

RS said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

>>> So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
>>> from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
>>> doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
>>> (only
>>> thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
>>> instead
>>> of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
>>> around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Quoted message said:

>>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>> Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
>> low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
>> NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
>> now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
>> older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
>> all.
> Seems they want to keep the DuraAce option going for quite some time.
> Shimano doesn't always let you know what they're up to (rarely, in fact),
> but for the most part, when they said they'd do something, that's what they
> do. And they say they're going to keep making DuraAce Octalink bottom
> brackets available for many years. Of course, google will keep this post
> around until the end of time, so 6 or 7 years from now someone's going to
> dig this up and either say "I told you so" or "I told you so." :>😉

Quoted message said:

>> Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
>> to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
>> XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
>> 7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.
> Hard to believe they continue to be slow with the compact crank. You'd think
> they'd use the carbon option as a way of getting a high-priced compact
> option to market in a big way. Then again, you would think they'd look at
> the demand for the 11-28 SRAM 10-speed cassettes and want to get in on
some
> of that action! For the other stuff, I'm not quite so concerned about
> mountain bike replacement parts, because the way they're ridden, well, most
> of them don't live a very charmed life and replacement of the rest of the
> assembly happens more often than it does with road components. It will
> mostly be a pain for that person who doesn't ride much and comes in with an
> almost-new 10-year-old bike with a problem. As now happens for suspension
> forks on 4-year-old bikes.

Quoted message said:

> "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email hidden]> wrote
in
> message
news:[email hidden]...
>> On Sep 12, 12:29 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>>> This is probably old news to everyone here but me...

Quoted message said:

>>> This afternoon we were dealing with a repair that needed a bottom
bracket
>>> replacement. First-year 9-speed Octalink Ultegra that had been through
>>> the
>>> war (lots of miles, many of them wet). So we went searching for an
>>> Ultegra
>>> Octalink BB for it. None in our Redwood City store, none in Los Altos.
>>> Checked the usual distributors... none there, either. Including the
>>> distributor who normally has everything. At that point a little light
>>> goes
>>> on and I'm thinking, maybe Shimano isn't making them anymore?

Quoted message said:

>>> So I call up Shimano and, sure enough, find out that they're no longer
>>> manufacturing Ultegra Octalink BBs anymore. But for a good many years
>>> they
>>> will continue to manufacture and supply '105 and DuraAce versions. Odd,
>>> that
>>> they'd ditch the BB that came with the Ultegra bikes (which outsold the
>>> '105
>>> and DuraAce versions by quite a margin) in favor of one below & one
>>> above.
>>> The Shimano guy didn't quite get that either; there's very little price
>>> diff
>>> between a '105 and Ultegra, and rarely do customers want to install
>>> something of "lesser" quality than the original part (although I have yet
>>> to
>>> figure out any way in which the '105 BB is "lesser" and have even used
>>> them
>>> in my own bike).

Quoted message said:

>>> So the reason I'm writing this is that it will hopefully prevent someone
>>> from spending countless hours trying to run down something that simply
>>> doesn't exist. The '105 is a suitable alternative of similar quality
>>> (only
>>> thing I find different from the Ultegra is that the spindle is black
>>> instead
>>> of silver), and the DuraAce version is lighter weight. Cost of a '105 is
>>> around $50 with the DuraAce running about $80.

Quoted message said:

>>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>> Yep, what we found out recently as well as our stock of 6500 BBs got
>> low. I am convinced that DA will be the next to go..particularly with
>> NO Octalink 1 cranks now being made by shimano. The two road cranks
>> now using spline are the bigger spline, ES version, also found on
>> older XT/Deore cranks. Interesting run, this design..about 10 years is
>> all.

Quoted message said:

>> Second note, I wonder how much the carbon crank will be..and how long
>> to make a compact version? AND that BB design is different, like
>> XTR..Ya suppose XT is next, that BB design? Then on down and then
>> 7800/6600/105 BBs will get scarce..so it goes.

Quoted message said:

With 50/34 compact cranks the 11-28 makes so much sense. It is hard to
figure why Shimano would not go this route. 50-12 really doesn't cut it, 50-11
is higher then 53-12 and works fine. On the low end having the 28 is nice and
works fine with modern short-cage derailleurs, I'm currently running such a
setup w/ a DA7700 front and DA7800 short-cage RD . . . works fine though it is
a 9-speed system.

compact makes no sense.

Quoted message said:

From a practical standpoint, they don't make much sense. But, they

sell because the wannabes want lower gears without the "stigma" of a
triple, IMO.

Quoted message said:

any reasonably fit rider on a reasonable bike
can push 39-27 up virtually any hill.

And, a 39 (or even 38)/30 is usually possible if you put together a
"custom" cassette from Miche, etc.

Quoted message said:

if you're not fit enough, or are
touring or mountaineering, you should be using a triple.

IMO, an excellent case can be made for a, say, 50/40/26 triple with a
close ratio 12-23 or 12/25 cassette, even for a "road bike".

That is the course I took, and am happy with the result.
13-23 nine speed gives a 13-19 straight block.

--
Michael Press

No, the reason for a 50-34 compact is the 47% jump between rings.
With 10 cogs and cross-over gearing, you are losing a lot of gears due
to reduncancy. The 47% difference allows a bit less overlap.

JG