Shimano Flat Bar Road compatibilities?

Quoted message said:

Shimano these days has some components suitable for Flat Bar road bikes.
Among these are some Rapidfire Plus pods in 8, 9 speed versions that don't
mention anything specific about the front derailer -- these index with
Shimano Road front derailers? Or Shimano Mountain? Then, there's a 10
speed pod, which say they need to be used with some front derailers made
specially for it. Same question, Is that a road or mountain front index?
Or something altogether incompatible?

Jasper: For reasons I've never figured out, Shimano has special front
derailleurs made for special flat-bar shift levers. What doesn't make sense
is why they don't simply make a shift lever that will operate properly with
their standard STI-style front derailleur. The reason a mountain-bike
derailleur won't work is that the chainring sizes aren't the same (they're
different enough that the radius of the derailleur cage doesn't come close
to that of the chainring, causing it to have to be either mounted way too
high above the chainring or have the tail end of the cage too high in the
air to effective move the chain).

Rear derailleurs, thankfully, could care less. They're all the same (unless
you somehow get ahold of one of the older DuraAce units that required a
special shifter).

Tell us what you want to do, and we (the many people in this newsgroup who
have worked with such things) can lay out the workable options for you.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Shimano these days has some components suitable for Flat Bar road bikes.
Among these are some Rapidfire Plus pods in 8, 9 speed versions that don't
mention anything specific about the front derailer -- these index with
Shimano Road front derailers? Or Shimano Mountain? Then, there's a 10
speed pod, which say they need to be used with some front derailers made
specially for it. Same question, Is that a road or mountain front index?
Or something altogether incompatible?

Then the front derailers: They've all got road cages, obviously, but what
do they index with? Road, Mountain, or something specific to those
specific shift levers?

Thanks,

Jasper

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano these days has some components suitable for Flat Bar road bikes.
Among these are some Rapidfire Plus pods in 8, 9 speed versions that don't
mention anything specific about the front derailer -- these index with
Shimano Road front derailers? Or Shimano Mountain? Then, there's a 10
speed pod, which say they need to be used with some front derailers made
specially for it. Same question, Is that a road or mountain front index?
Or something altogether incompatible?

Jasper: For reasons I've never figured out, Shimano has special front
derailleurs made for special flat-bar shift levers. What doesn't make sense
is why they don't simply make a shift lever that will operate properly with
their standard STI-style front derailleur. The reason a mountain-bike
derailleur won't work is that the chainring sizes aren't the same (they're
different enough that the radius of the derailleur cage doesn't come close
to that of the chainring, causing it to have to be either mounted way too
high above the chainring or have the tail end of the cage too high in the
air to effective move the chain).

Are you saying that the same amount of cable pull is used on the left
shifter and f. der for both the flat bar road and the mountain stuff
(unlike STI vs mtn)?

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano these days has some components suitable for Flat Bar road bikes.
Among these are some Rapidfire Plus pods in 8, 9 speed versions that don't
mention anything specific about the front derailer -- these index with
Shimano Road front derailers? Or Shimano Mountain? Then, there's a 10
speed pod, which say they need to be used with some front derailers made
specially for it. Same question, Is that a road or mountain front index?
Or something altogether incompatible?

Jasper: For reasons I've never figured out, Shimano has special front
derailleurs made for special flat-bar shift levers. What doesn't make sense

But could they be operated by real MTB group stuff, rather than the
special ones? Or are they really entirely incompatible with everything?

Quoted message said:

is why they don't simply make a shift lever that will operate properly with
their standard STI-style front derailleur. The reason a mountain-bike

Yeah, that's a good question. It'd make things a lot easier.

For that matter, it's fairly strange that MTB and road indexing are
different in the first place...

Quoted message said:

Tell us what you want to do, and we (the many people in this newsgroup who
have worked with such things) can lay out the workable options for you.

I've got a trekking bike for road use that's built with all-Deore, 26" MTB
wheels and a flat-bar w/ separate pods & brake levers rather than the
integrated stuff. It's currently kitted out with the standard Deore
gearing (11-32 9s and either a 46 or a 48 as top ring -- I still need to
count that when I have some time), and I was thinking of moving toward a
road triple, and/or possibly a road cassette -- at least for regular use
on the flats over here (and as I live .nl, the flats are very flat and
very everywhere). I pretty much never use the bottom third of gears, and I
pretty much only use the big ring with the 11-13-14-16, and very
occasionally the 18, apart from starting up after a traffic light.

I think it might actually be a good idea to just do the cassette change
first, see how I like that. Probably be an Ultegra 11-21/23 then, my local
mail order house has those for 42 euros. Twice as expensive as the current
cassette, but it might well be worth it. It would only reduce my total
gear range by the difference between small-ring/32 and small-ring/21, and
most of the rest of the result would be more closely spaced gears with
less overlap between rings.

If I were to want a road crank, and matching derailer, on my bike, what
would I have to do? I see two options: Get that flat-bar road derailer and
shifter set, which would leave me with a used MTB triple left pod and a
new 8/9/10 speed (depending on which I buy) right pod -- which may be
worth a bit on ebay, particularly the 10sp -- or, and this is what I'm
leaning towards, get a real road triple derailer and find myself an old
non-indexed left bar-top thumbshifter.

Incidentally.. why do road cassettes come in oodles of variations whereas
MTB cassettes seem to limited to 11-32 and 11-34? Weird.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

I've got a trekking bike for road use that's built with all-Deore, 26" MTB
wheels and a flat-bar w/ separate pods & brake levers rather than the
integrated stuff. It's currently kitted out with the standard Deore
gearing (11-32 9s and either a 46 or a 48 as top ring -- I still need to
count that when I have some time), and I was thinking of moving toward a
road triple, and/or possibly a road cassette -- at least for regular use
on the flats over here (and as I live .nl, the flats are very flat and
very everywhere). I pretty much never use the bottom third of gears, and I
pretty much only use the big ring with the 11-13-14-16, and very
occasionally the 18, apart from starting up after a traffic light.

I once had some road wheels for my MTB, with slicks and an 11-24 cassette,
used with a 46-48T big ring. It worked great.

Quoted message said:

If I were to want a road crank, and matching derailer, on my bike, what
would I have to do? I see two options: Get that flat-bar road derailer
and shifter set, which would leave me with a used MTB triple left pod
and a new 8/9/10 speed (depending on which I buy) right pod -- which may
be worth a bit on ebay, particularly the 10sp -- or, and this is what
I'm leaning towards, get a real road triple derailer and find myself an
old non-indexed left bar-top thumbshifter.

Maybe you should try Paul Thumbies:

http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbmtn.html

They turn barend shifters (which work with road derailers) into thumb
shifters. They're available for both road (26.0mm) and MTB (25.4mm)
handlebars.

Quoted message said:

Incidentally.. why do road cassettes come in oodles of variations
whereas MTB cassettes seem to limited to 11-32 and 11-34? Weird.

Actually the cassettes are interchangeable. You can put a 9sp road
cassette on a 9sp MTB hub with no problems. 9sp on 8sp, 8sp on 8sp, and
7sp on 7sp too.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Are you saying that the same amount of cable pull is used on the left
shifter and f. der for both the flat bar road and the mountain stuff
(unlike STI vs mtn)?

Unfortunately, no. The flat-bar road shift lever operates correctly only
with the appropriate flat-bar road front derailleur. There is no reason
whatsoever (at least none that I can think of) for Shimano not making the
flat-bar shift lever compatible with standard road front derailleurs, but
they didn't.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano these days has some components suitable for Flat Bar road
bikes.
Among these are some Rapidfire Plus pods in 8, 9 speed versions that
don't
mention anything specific about the front derailer -- these index with
Shimano Road front derailers? Or Shimano Mountain? Then, there's a 10
speed pod, which say they need to be used with some front derailers
made
specially for it. Same question, Is that a road or mountain front
index?
Or something altogether incompatible?

Jasper: For reasons I've never figured out, Shimano has special front
derailleurs made for special flat-bar shift levers. What doesn't make
sense
is why they don't simply make a shift lever that will operate properly
with
their standard STI-style front derailleur. The reason a mountain-bike
derailleur won't work is that the chainring sizes aren't the same
(they're
different enough that the radius of the derailleur cage doesn't come
close
to that of the chainring, causing it to have to be either mounted way too
high above the chainring or have the tail end of the cage too high in the
air to effective move the chain).

Are you saying that the same amount of cable pull is used on the left
shifter and f. der for both the flat bar road and the mountain stuff
(unlike STI vs mtn)?

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Unfortunately, no. The flat-bar road shift lever operates correctly only
with the appropriate flat-bar road front derailleur. There is no reason
whatsoever (at least none that I can think of) for Shimano not making the
flat-bar shift lever compatible with standard road front derailleurs, but
they didn't.

It would've been even easier to simply use Mountain pull, which'd let them
use the *exact* same shifter pods as the mountain stuff, and simply put a
road cage on a mountain parallellogram. And on the plus side this'd let
people with otherwise mountain components run a road crank, rather than
forcing them to get the derailer *and* the shifters, which makes it only a
practical option when speccing a new bike.

Jasper

Matt O'Toole said:

Jasper Janssen said:

I've got a trekking bike for road use that's built with all-Deore, 26" MTB
wheels and a flat-bar w/ separate pods & brake levers rather than the
integrated stuff. It's currently kitted out with the standard Deore
gearing (11-32 9s and either a 46 or a 48 as top ring -- I still need to
count that when I have some time), and I was thinking of moving toward a
road triple, and/or possibly a road cassette -- at least for regular use
on the flats over here (and as I live .nl, the flats are very flat and
very everywhere). I pretty much never use the bottom third of gears, and I
pretty much only use the big ring with the 11-13-14-16, and very
occasionally the 18, apart from starting up after a traffic light.

I once had some road wheels for my MTB, with slicks and an 11-24 cassette,
used with a 46-48T big ring. It worked great.

Myeah. I suppose for that matter that 559-47 isn't all that different in
diameter from 622-23 -- let's see, 559+2x47=559+94=653,
622+2x23=622+46=668. Still a little bit of difference, but.. my shameful
secret is that I use fairly low RPMs, especially when I'm just cruising,
and the 46/48 (whichever it is) by 11 is sometimes just a bit anemic. Not
by much, mind you, but I think I'd like to have a slightly larger gear
available. On the other hand, I don't really *need* it. Enh. I'll see what
happens when I break this crank.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I were to want a road crank, and matching derailer, on my bike, what
would I have to do? I see two options: Get that flat-bar road derailer
and shifter set, which would leave me with a used MTB triple left pod
and a new 8/9/10 speed (depending on which I buy) right pod -- which may
be worth a bit on ebay, particularly the 10sp -- or, and this is what
I'm leaning towards, get a real road triple derailer and find myself an
old non-indexed left bar-top thumbshifter.

Maybe you should try Paul Thumbies:

http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbmtn.html

They turn barend shifters (which work with road derailers) into thumb
shifters. They're available for both road (26.0mm) and MTB (25.4mm)
handlebars.

Yeah, but a) they're expensive ($50 for the mounts, $60 or so for the
shifters) and b) I kinda like my Rapidfire plus right shifter pod. DA
barends (which those take) are still pure friction on the left, aren't
they?

Anyway, for just a left shifter, I could just as easily, and much
cheaperlier, use an actual thumbshifter from the days of yore, and/or a
new Tourney one -- I saw that they appear to be back in production, or at
least the QBP catalog on the Harris site now again lists them, in even
simpler variations than before, as available. I'm considering going to a
friction thumbie on the left anyway, because the indexing just doesn't
seem to be all that hot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Incidentally.. why do road cassettes come in oodles of variations
whereas MTB cassettes seem to limited to 11-32 and 11-34? Weird.

Actually the cassettes are interchangeable. You can put a 9sp road
cassette on a 9sp MTB hub with no problems. 9sp on 8sp, 8sp on 8sp, and
7sp on 7sp too.

Well, yeah, but you're still left with a big gap. The road cassettes end
at 27 large, the MTB cassettes start at 32 and are hard to get with a
larger small sprocket than 11 and look to be impossible to find with a
larger starting sprocket than 12.

I'm sure Sheldon loves the fact that lots of people come to him to buy
cassettes made from one road and one MTB cassette, but you'd think Shimano
would do something about the gap in the market as well.

Jasper

In article <[email hidden]>, Jasper Janssen

() said:

Yeah, but a) they're expensive ($50 for the mounts, $60 or so for the
shifters) and b) I kinda like my Rapidfire plus right shifter pod. DA
barends (which those take) are still pure friction on the left, aren't
they?

Indeed they are.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, for just a left shifter, I could just as easily, and much
cheaperlier, use an actual thumbshifter from the days of yore, and/or a
new Tourney one -- I saw that they appear to be back in production, or at
least the QBP catalog on the Harris site now again lists them, in even
simpler variations than before, as available. I'm considering going to a
friction thumbie on the left anyway, because the indexing just doesn't
seem to be all that hot.

Grip-shift of the "several clicks per chainring" type?

Quoted message said:

Well, yeah, but you're still left with a big gap. The road cassettes end
at 27 large, the MTB cassettes start at 32 and are hard to get with a
larger small sprocket than 11 and look to be impossible to find with a
larger starting sprocket than 12.

I'm sure Sheldon loves the fact that lots of people come to him to buy
cassettes made from one road and one MTB cassette, but you'd think Shimano
would do something about the gap in the market as well.

Quite. I'd like 7 close ratios with a couple of bail-out gears at the
bottom for my Audax steed, but I'm too tight to buy two cassettes and
butcher them. Especially since, for some unaccountable reason,
cassettes (with no moving parts) are just as expensive as freewheels
used to be . What's THAT all about, eh, readers?

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
The elder stoat leads, in all circumstances.

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Myeah. I suppose for that matter that 559-47 isn't all that different in
diameter from 622-23 -- let's see, 559+2x47=559+94=653,
622+2x23=622+46=668. Still a little bit of difference, but.. my shameful
secret is that I use fairly low RPMs, especially when I'm just cruising,
and the 46/48 (whichever it is) by 11 is sometimes just a bit anemic. Not
by much, mind you, but I think I'd like to have a slightly larger gear
available. On the other hand, I don't really *need* it. Enh. I'll see what
happens when I break this crank.

At what speed/RPM are you 'cruising' if 48/11 is not a large enough gear?

Lou

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jasper Janssen
([email hidden]) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Indeed they are.

Funny, you sound just like Horatio Caine when you type that. This may have
something to do with the three CSI:Miami episodes I just watched in a row.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, for just a left shifter, I could just as easily, and much
cheaperlier, use an actual thumbshifter from the days of yore, and/or a
new Tourney one -- I saw that they appear to be back in production, or at
least the QBP catalog on the Harris site now again lists them, in even
simpler variations than before, as available. I'm considering going to a
friction thumbie on the left anyway, because the indexing just doesn't
seem to be all that hot.

Grip-shift of the "several clicks per chainring" type?

I don't like grip-shift, so probably not. Admittedly, I've never lived
with one long-term, just once or twice on a hire, but I have lived with
old thumbies and I know those work for me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure Sheldon loves the fact that lots of people come to him to buy
cassettes made from one road and one MTB cassette, but you'd think Shimano
would do something about the gap in the market as well.

Quite. I'd like 7 close ratios with a couple of bail-out gears at the
bottom for my Audax steed, but I'm too tight to buy two cassettes and
butcher them. Especially since, for some unaccountable reason,
cassettes (with no moving parts) are just as expensive as freewheels
used to be . What's THAT all about, eh, readers?

Well.. if you're not concerned too much about weight, a $20 Deore HG 50
11-32 or a $30 LX 11-32/11-34 should get you enough steel big cogs to last
an awful lot of cassettes, given how little the big ones wear.

I don't know, I suspect that if you look at inflation-corrected pricing,
cassettes *are* cheaper than freewheels of equivalent quality, considering
that quality seems to have stepped up some big notches (ie, what used to
be Dura Ace quality is now way down the totem pole, and Deore or even
Tourney of today would have been considered fairly high end back then).

Jasper

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:00:09 +0200, "Lou Holtman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Myeah. I suppose for that matter that 559-47 isn't all that different in
diameter from 622-23 -- let's see, 559+2x47=559+94=653,
622+2x23=622+46=668. Still a little bit of difference, but.. my shameful
secret is that I use fairly low RPMs, especially when I'm just cruising,
and the 46/48 (whichever it is) by 11 is sometimes just a bit anemic. Not
by much, mind you, but I think I'd like to have a slightly larger gear
available. On the other hand, I don't really *need* it. Enh. I'll see what
happens when I break this crank.

Quoted message said:

At what speed/RPM are you 'cruising' if 48/11 is not a large enough gear?

40, 50 rpm, not putting out much power at all, tailwind/short downhill,
about 20-25 kph, sun in your face, nice countryside to watch.

I can easily live without a taller gear than 48/11, since I wouldn't be
using it *much*. I'd just like to have it for those occasions. Also, I
much prefer pedaling slowly through downhills, with some resistance behind
the pedals, to outright coasting. Not so much to add speed, but just
because I prefer it.

Hey, I'm weird, so sue me.

Jasper

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jasper Janssen

() said:

Yeah, but a) they're expensive ($50 for the mounts, $60 or so for the
shifters) and b) I kinda like my Rapidfire plus right shifter pod. DA
barends (which those take) are still pure friction on the left, aren't
they?

Indeed they are.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, for just a left shifter, I could just as easily, and much
cheaperlier, use an actual thumbshifter from the days of yore, and/or a
new Tourney one -- I saw that they appear to be back in production, or

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

least the QBP catalog on the Harris site now again lists them, in even
simpler variations than before, as available. I'm considering going to a
friction thumbie on the left anyway, because the indexing just doesn't
seem to be all that hot.

Grip-shift of the "several clicks per chainring" type?

Exactly what I use on my flat bar bike. Really like them, most of the time.
Sometimes I overshift at the front, but I assume it's because I just don't
have enough miles with them.

Jasper Janssen asked:

Quoted message said:

Shimano these days has some components suitable for Flat Bar road bikes.
Among these are some Rapidfire Plus pods in 8, 9 speed versions that don't
mention anything specific about the front derailer -- these index with
Shimano Road front derailers? Or Shimano Mountain?

They index with so-called "mountain" front derailers, and with the
special R443 "road" model.

Which derailer to use depends on the size of the largest chainring.

See: http://harriscyclery.com/derailers-front.html for details on this.

Quoted message said:

Then, there's a 10
speed pod, which say they need to be used with some front derailers made
specially for it. Same question, Is that a road or mountain front index?
Or something altogether incompatible?

So-called "mountain."

Quoted message said:

Then the front derailers: They've all got road cages, obviously, but what
do they index with? Road, Mountain, or something specific to those
specific shift levers?

Shimano's so-called "road" derailers are designed for 52/53 tooth big
rings. They index with drop-bar (a.k.a. "road"😉 shifters, with the
exception of the R443 mentioned above, which is the only one compatible
with _both_ flat bar shifters and a 52 tooth big ring.

The R443 works with all Shimano flat-bar shifters, despite what the
Shimano marketeers would have you believe.

Sheldon "Interchangeabilitude" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Military conscription is the worst form of slavery. |
| A more enlightened age will consider it a War Crime. |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

It would've been even easier to simply use Mountain pull, which'd let them
use the *exact* same shifter pods as the mountain stuff, and simply put a
road cage on a mountain parallellogram. And on the plus side this'd let
people with otherwise mountain components run a road crank, rather than
forcing them to get the derailer *and* the shifters, which makes it only a
practical option when speccing a new bike.

Except that the mountain cages aren't made with "trimming" in mind. It's
reasonable to expect that you'd need a different cage (wider) without trim
than for one with trim.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Unfortunately, no. The flat-bar road shift lever operates correctly only
with the appropriate flat-bar road front derailleur. There is no reason
whatsoever (at least none that I can think of) for Shimano not making the
flat-bar shift lever compatible with standard road front derailleurs, but
they didn't.

It would've been even easier to simply use Mountain pull, which'd let them
use the *exact* same shifter pods as the mountain stuff, and simply put a
road cage on a mountain parallellogram. And on the plus side this'd let
people with otherwise mountain components run a road crank, rather than
forcing them to get the derailer *and* the shifters, which makes it only a
practical option when speccing a new bike.

Jasper

Sheldon Brown said:

Jasper Janssen asked:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then the front derailers: They've all got road cages, obviously, but what
do they index with? Road, Mountain, or something specific to those
specific shift levers?

Shimano's so-called "road" derailers are designed for 52/53 tooth big
rings. They index with drop-bar (a.k.a. "road"😉 shifters, with the
exception of the R443 mentioned above, which is the only one compatible
with _both_ flat bar shifters and a 52 tooth big ring.

The R443 works with all Shimano flat-bar shifters, despite what the
Shimano marketeers would have you believe.

Awesome. That'd make a changeover (to a road crank, with matching R443,
while keeping the shifters) fairly painless. Thanks, Sheldon.

Now they just need to make mountain derailers with road cable pull, for
those strange people that want (mostly) MTB gear with road bars -- mostly
sold as 'randonneurs' in these here parts. And, of course, STI shifters
compatible with V-brakes.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:00:09 +0200, "Lou Holtman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Myeah. I suppose for that matter that 559-47 isn't all that different in
diameter from 622-23 -- let's see, 559+2x47=559+94=653,
622+2x23=622+46=668. Still a little bit of difference, but.. my shameful
secret is that I use fairly low RPMs, especially when I'm just cruising,
and the 46/48 (whichever it is) by 11 is sometimes just a bit anemic. Not
by much, mind you, but I think I'd like to have a slightly larger gear
available. On the other hand, I don't really *need* it. Enh. I'll see what
happens when I break this crank.

Quoted message said:

At what speed/RPM are you 'cruising' if 48/11 is not a large enough gear?

40, 50 rpm, not putting out much power at all, tailwind/short downhill,
about 20-25 kph, sun in your face, nice countryside to watch.

I can easily live without a taller gear than 48/11, since I wouldn't be
using it *much*. I'd just like to have it for those occasions. Also, I
much prefer pedaling slowly through downhills, with some resistance behind
the pedals, to outright coasting. Not so much to add speed, but just
because I prefer it.

Hey, I'm weird, so sue me.

Why would I sue you? I'm just suprised that someone who took so much
time figuring out what kind of bike and components he needs discovers
after a couple of rides that he wants different gears and confronted
with the incompatibility of the crank he really wants and the FD and
shifters he got.
Weird. Don't sue me ;-)

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Jasper Janssen said:

Sheldon Brown said:

Jasper Janssen asked:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then the front derailers: They've all got road cages, obviously, but what
do they index with? Road, Mountain, or something specific to those
specific shift levers?

Shimano's so-called "road" derailers are designed for 52/53 tooth big
rings. They index with drop-bar (a.k.a. "road"😉 shifters, with the
exception of the R443 mentioned above, which is the only one compatible
with _both_ flat bar shifters and a 52 tooth big ring.

The R443 works with all Shimano flat-bar shifters, despite what the
Shimano marketeers would have you believe.

Yessireebob. I have a R443 front derailing-thingy, "road" size
chainrings (52-39-26), and ancient XTR (M900-series) shifters.
Everything indexes just fine.

Jeff

Jasper Janssen said:

Now they just need to make mountain derailers with road cable pull, for
those strange people that want (mostly) MTB gear with road bars -- mostly
sold as 'randonneurs' in these here parts.

Lots of folks would like that, especially hard core touring cyclists.

They used to make such a derailer, the RSX 1997 and earlier, but they
discontinued it.

We bought a ton of 'em on closeout, but eventually sold through all of them.

Quoted message said:

And, of course, STI shifters compatible with V-brakes.

Don't hold your breath on that! It's very difficult to imagine a drop
bar shifter that will have sufficient cable pull and also permit braking
from the hoods.

Yes, I know about the Dia Compe 287V, which sorta works, but it doesn't
work up to Shimano's standards.

Sheldon "Need To Redesign The Human Hand First" Brown
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Sheldon Brown said:

Sheldon "Need To Redesign The Human Hand First" Brown

Sounds like a good place to start. Which biotech company do you think will
be the first?

Jasper