Shimano Deore DX?

"George Hauxwell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Don't you need a jig and the expertise to build a wheel? I have always

been

Quoted message said:

under the impression that its a skilled job, no?

Nope, I use a spoke key and the bike frame. Oh, and an amount of patience
that can surprise people who know me ;-)
The skill follows the patience and the reward of riding your own handiwork
is priceless.
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is a good starting point.

Pete

Hi,
I've heard of STX, LX, XT, XTR etc., but have not come across DX before. I'm
after a new/second-hand 26" front wheel to replace my worn out Deore LX. A
friend-of-a-friend is selling a mint Mavic M231 with a Deore DX hub. Would
it be a worthwhile replacement or would I be better off looking elsewhere?
The price is £25.

Any advice appreciated, I don't want to waste my money, it's just that I've
never come across Deore DX!

Many thanks

George

Quoted message said:

I've heard of STX, LX, XT, XTR etc., but have not come across DX before.

I'm

Quoted message said:

after a new/second-hand 26" front wheel to replace my worn out Deore LX. A
friend-of-a-friend is selling a mint Mavic M231 with a Deore DX hub. Would
it be a worthwhile replacement or would I be better off looking elsewhere?
The price is £25.

Any advice appreciated, I don't want to waste my money, it's just that

I've

Quoted message said:

never come across Deore DX!

I have a vague memory of it. The hub may be 8 or 10 years old - no problem
if it is truly mint.

Is the M231 one of those very light Mavic rims that they put on Marins for a
year or two and then dropped because they were a bit light and fragile? No
problem for a lightish rider on the road. If you intend to bump the wheel
down rough tracks I suggest you look carefully at the construction of the
rim.

£25 is o.k. for a standard 26" front wheel so long as it is up to the task
and in near new condition.

What's worn out about your LX wheel? If it's just the rim then £25 will buy
you one of several new rims and you can have the fun of building your own
wheel.

John

"Eatmorepies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a vague memory of it. The hub may be 8 or 10 years old - no problem
if it is truly mint.

Is the M231 one of those very light Mavic rims that they put on Marins for
a
year or two and then dropped because they were a bit light and fragile? No
problem for a lightish rider on the road. If you intend to bump the wheel
down rough tracks I suggest you look carefully at the construction of the
rim.

£25 is o.k. for a standard 26" front wheel so long as it is up to the task
and in near new condition.

What's worn out about your LX wheel? If it's just the rim then £25 will
buy
you one of several new rims and you can have the fun of building your own
wheel.

John

Hi John, yes it is the rim, very worn I'm afraid. I've never built a wheel
before, have tweaked a few spokes though!
Don't you need a jig and the expertise to build a wheel? I have always been
under the impression that its a skilled job, no?

George

"Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"George Hauxwell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Nope, I use a spoke key and the bike frame. Oh, and an amount of patience
that can surprise people who know me ;-)
The skill follows the patience and the reward of riding your own handiwork
is priceless.
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is a good starting point.

Pete

Thanks Pete, I might have a go at this myself. Keep the hub and spokes and
replace the rim, or would I be better off replacing the spokes as well?

Eatmorepies said:

I have a vague memory of it. The hub may be 8 or 10 years old - no problem
if it is truly mint.

DX came in for 1990 to replace Deore II, and lasted until 1993 after which
to all intents and purposes it 'became' LX. For 1992 and 1993, XT, DX and
LX co-existed.

Quoted message said:

Is the M231 one of those very light Mavic rims that they put on Marins for
a
year or two and then dropped because they were a bit light and fragile?

The rim as I remember was the one you went for after you'd worn out the
stock rims on your mtb, lightweight but quite strong as long as you didn't
try 10-foot drop-offs.

Becky

George Hauxwell said:

I might have a go at this myself. Keep the hub and
spokes and replace the rim, or would I be better off replacing the
spokes as well?

The spokes are probably fine and keeping them makes the job much easier.
Tape new rim besides wheel and swap spokes over one at a time. You won't
believe how little skill is required for this stage until you do it. The
tricky job is the tensioning and truing afterwards but you can do this
yourself as well if you take your time. A jig helps (a lot, IMO) but
isn't essential.
(In order to resuse the spokes, new rim needs to be same model or
have same Effective Rim Diameter).

If you fancy new hubs, however, might as well get new spokes: get
stainless double butted.

~PB, another Pete

in message <[email hidden]>, George Hauxwell

(') said:

"Eatmorepies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's worn out about your LX wheel? If it's just the rim then £25
will buy
you one of several new rims and you can have the fun of building your
own wheel.

Hi John, yes it is the rim, very worn I'm afraid. I've never built a
wheel before, have tweaked a few spokes though!
Don't you need a jig and the expertise to build a wheel? I have always
been under the impression that its a skilled job, no?

You don't _need_ a jig, an old pair of front forks does just as well.
You don't need much expertise to replace a rim, particularly on a
front. Simply tape the new rim alongside the old, and go round the
wheel one spoke at a time removing the nipple, transferring the spoke
from the old rim to the new, and reattaching the nipple. When all
spokes are transferred, cut the tape, remove and discard the old rim,
put the wheel into your forks or stand, and true the wheel as normal
(remembering that you want to end up with the rim central to the hub).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple

George Hauxwell said:

Hi,
I've heard of STX, LX, XT, XTR etc., but have not come across DX before. I'm
after a new/second-hand 26" front wheel to replace my worn out Deore LX. A
friend-of-a-friend is selling a mint Mavic M231 with a Deore DX hub. Would
it be a worthwhile replacement or would I be better off looking elsewhere?
The price is £25.

Any advice appreciated, I don't want to waste my money, it's just that I've
never come across Deore DX!

Used to slot in between LX and XT. It's good stuff but predates
Parallax hubs, so the front one isn't as stiff as those designed for
suspension. A decent steel QR is more important though.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eatmorepies said:

Is the M231 one of those very light Mavic rims that they put on Marins for a
year or two and then dropped because they were a bit light and fragile? No
problem for a lightish rider on the road. If you intend to bump the wheel
down rough tracks I suggest you look carefully at the construction of the
rim.

Probably 230TIB. Very thin sidewalls, single eyelets that pulled through
easy, non-machined sidewalls that took a bit wearing in and then were
knackered.

Mavic 231s were _the_ rim to have in the early/mid 90s for most XC
riders. Little bit heavier and stronger.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Pete Biggs said:

George Hauxwell said:

I might have a go at this myself. Keep the hub and
spokes and replace the rim, or would I be better off replacing the
spokes as well?

The spokes are probably fine and keeping them makes the job much easier.

Who knows how old the wheel is though. The hub is 1992 or older, rim
1995 or older, spokes? Probably seized and if it was the 90s, wheel
builders were daft enough to build with aluminium nipples.

Ditch it. Buy a new wheel. About £40 gets you a Mavic 221 rim with an
Alivio hub from any Madison stockist (ie. most bike shops)

in message
<[email hidden]>,

Shaun Murray (') said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Pete Biggs said:

George Hauxwell said:

I might have a go at this myself. Keep the hub and
spokes and replace the rim, or would I be better off replacing the
spokes as well?

The spokes are probably fine and keeping them makes the job much
easier.

Who knows how old the wheel is though. The hub is 1992 or older, rim
1995 or older, spokes? Probably seized and if it was the 90s, wheel
builders were daft enough to build with aluminium nipples.

I was in the LBS late yesterday afternoon to see a friend's 1980s time
trial bike being sized up for an overhaul. It had been in the back of a
shed for twenty years...

The large-flange Campagnolo hubs ran beautifully as did the bottom
bracket bearing (believed also to be Campag). The chainset was Campag,
with drilled rings. The wheels (36 thin spokes and tub rims) were
perfectly true. The return spring on the Mavic rear derailleur was
slightly weak, but otherwise it worked fine. The frame (Orbit, in 531s
tubing) has surface rust and will need a respray, and my friend wants
to replace the tub rims with wire-on rims, but that is one beautiful
classic bike. There's nothing necessarily wrong with old wheels - the
best old wheels are as good as good new wheels.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party now has the support of a smaller proportion of
the electorate in Scotland than Sinn Fein have in Northern Ireland.

Simon Brooke said:

There's nothing necessarily wrong with old wheels - the
best old wheels are as good as good new wheels.

Not true. Old wheels were built according to the failure limits of the
spokes and would be undertensioned by today's standards. Modern spokes
are two to three times away from their failure limit when fully
tensioned which is limited by the rim strength or being unable to turn
the nipple further without damaging it.

Most of the problems with modern shop built wheels is the low tension
building techniques for fragile spokes handed down from old timers

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Simon Brooke said:

There's nothing necessarily wrong with old wheels - the
best old wheels are as good as good new wheels.

Not true. Old wheels were built according to the failure limits of the
spokes and would be undertensioned by today's standards. Modern spokes
are two to three times away from their failure limit when fully
tensioned which is limited by the rim strength or being unable to turn
the nipple further without damaging it.

Maybe, but none of that matters. If an old wheel runs firm and true and
doesn't break spokes, then who cares what the tension in the spokes is?

--
Naqerj

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

I was in the LBS late yesterday afternoon to see a friend's 1980s time
trial bike being sized up for an overhaul. It had been in the back of a
shed for twenty years...

The large-flange Campagnolo hubs ran beautifully as did the bottom
bracket bearing (believed also to be Campag). The chainset was Campag,
with drilled rings. The wheels (36 thin spokes and tub rims) were
perfectly true. The return spring on the Mavic rear derailleur was
slightly weak, but otherwise it worked fine. The frame (Orbit, in 531s
tubing) has surface rust and will need a respray, and my friend wants
to replace the tub rims with wire-on rims, but that is one beautiful
classic bike. There's nothing necessarily wrong with old wheels - the
best old wheels are as good as good new wheels.

Fine as a classic perhaps, which if that's the case, he should keep the
tubs for authenticity. It'll be completely obsolete as a time trial bike
though.

In a similar vein, that early 90s MTB wheel is equally obsolete and is
easily bettered by a ?40-?50 wheel with mid-level components. If you're
building up a retro classic, use old components (preferably unused),
otherwise technology has moved and requirements have moved on in 20
years.

Shaun

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

/Fashion/ has changed, and /rules/ have changed. Some modern stuff is
genuinely a bit lighter and a bit stiffer,

Last year I was team mechanic for one of the teams in the Irish Milk
Ras. There's a whole lot of difference between Malcom Elliott's
magnesium, carbon and titanium Pinarello that I was servicing each day
and even the 2-3 year old spare aluminium/carbon bike we had as the 2nd
emergency bike. It's not just a 'bit'. You notice it when you're lifting
8 of them onto a roof 2-3 times a day for over a week. ;-)

Quoted message said:

some isn't (my current
generation pedals and shoes weigh together 70 grammes more than the
pedals and shoes I was wearing in the 70s, for example - of course,
they do unclip). And the quality of mid-range tuff now is close to the
quality of the best of thirty years ago. But for the rest of it,
indexed shifters don't really help an expert cyclist; integrated
shifters don't make any difference under time trial conditions. The
only thing on road bikes[1] which has genuinely improved in the thirty
years I've been riding them is pedals systems and brakes, and they
don't help you go faster.

I wish, It'd have saved me spending hours respoking HED carbons and
sticking tubs back on to rims. Whereas road bikes are fairly
conservative compared to MTBs and recumbents, I'd disagree that the
changes have been minor.

Quoted message said:

Of course, disk wheels, low-spoke-count wheels, and tri bars /do/ help
you go faster, but they're not new inventions.

No, they've just got a lot better with new materials and better
understanding how to use some materials.

Shaun