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Shimano chains - rivet reuse?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
21 August 2005
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30 August 2005
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Martin
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  1. The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop. It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the
    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Many thanks

    Martin

    --
    Removed z before replying by email.

  2. Martin said:

    The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop. It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the
    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Many thanks

    Martin

    I would never ride with a chain rejoined with reused rivets. Even with 8
    speed Shimano chains they say to rejoin them with a special pin. 10
    speed chains have even thinner outer plates.

    Lou
    --
    Posted by news://news.nb.nu

  3. Martin:

    It used to be that you could use the existing rivet to close a chain.
    In fact, it would be very difficult to replace a rivet since you could
    not thread it through the whole. so, you would break the chain without
    completely removing the rivet. That is how chains would work, until
    shimano came up with the replaceable rivet. It was the stupidest idea
    ever. Whenever you break a shimano chain, you must replace the rivet
    with a special order shimano rivet. Otherwise, the chain will surely
    fail. With SRAM chains, you can reuse existing rivets, or use the
    special link that allows you to break the chain with no tools.

    Andres

  4. Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:46:29 GMT, Martin <[email hidden]> skrev:
    ..

    Quoted message said:


    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Last time I reused a rivet on a Shimano chain, 3 years ago I broke the
    chain in a short steep hill sprint, and I didn't discover what happened
    till I found myself lying on the ground with scratched elbow and knee and
    - worse - a scratched bike and a bent rear drop.
    I haven't dared to experiment with reused pivets since. Extra rivets from
    Shimano are ufairly expensive I think - so I use SRAM assembly links,
    which are reusable - but should be changed with every new chain, according
    to www.SRAM.com. It works fine with Shimano chains also.
    Ivar

  5. Martin said:

    The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    I guess I'm slow - why would he need to use two rivets to rejoin a chain? If he
    opened the chain for service, that's one rivet - OTOH if he's repairing a broken
    chain that's also one rivet.

    Ron

    Quoted message said:

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop. It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the
    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Many thanks

    Martin

  6. Martin said:

    The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop.

    BUT he made a serious mistake. BAD idea for any shimano chain, REALLY
    bad idea for the 10s chain. He is asking for a broken chain, on a chain
    that is known for breaking even when connected properly.

    It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the

    Quoted message said:

    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Many thanks

    Martin

  7. On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:46:29 GMT, Martin <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop. It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the
    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    When Shimano first introduced the "black pin" idea back in the early
    '90s, I thought, "[censored]"; and continued to push the old pins back
    in. Since I hot wax, I was breaking and reconnecting chains every 400
    - 500 miles. After 18,138.6 miles of such treatment (I googled up that
    figure from a 1997 posting) one of the pins pulled out.

    After that I started using Craig Super Links (now manufactured by
    Forster) and have stopped worrying about link separation.

    jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

  8. I bought an HG-73 9-speed chain from Nashbar. It came with a regular pin
    installed on one side of the last link (not a special pin with the guide).
    Are you supposed to use this pin after shortening the chain to the correct
    size? I removed that part of the chain and used a special pin join the ends.
    I would have thought they would include a special pin and not include a
    partially attached "normal" pin.

    Art Harris

  9. Quoted message said:


    With SRAM chains, you can reuse existing rivets, or use the
    special link that allows you to break the chain with no tools.

    Not any more. Their rivets are peened too.

  10. "Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I bought an HG-73 9-speed chain from Nashbar. It came with a regular pin
    installed on one side of the last link (not a special pin with the guide).
    Are you supposed to use this pin after shortening the chain to the correct
    size? I removed that part of the chain and used a special pin join the
    ends. I would have thought they would include a special pin and not include
    a partially attached "normal" pin.

    Art Harris


    http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/cycling/techdocs/en/bikecomponents/CN/SI-CN-7701_v2_m56577569830558543.pdf

    --
    DTW .../\.../\.../\...

    I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
    The rest, I've just wasted.

  11. Arthur Harris said:

    I bought an HG-73 9-speed chain from Nashbar. It came with a regular pin
    installed on one side of the last link (not a special pin with the guide).
    Are you supposed to use this pin after shortening the chain to the correct
    size?

    Yes. You shorten the chain on the other side. The reason why you should
    not reuse a pushed out pin is because the hole in the outer sideplate of
    the link became too large for that pin. If you started with a 'fresh'
    hole in the outer sideplate this is not the case and so it will be OK to
    use the regular pin.

    Lou
    --
    Posted by news://news.nb.nu

  12. Martin said:

    The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop. It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the
    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Many thanks

    Martin


    on shimano chain, never re-use rivets. as you say, the peened shoulder
    sheers off leaving the link side plate free to disengage. always use
    the replacement rivet supplied with the chain.

    on older chain, particularly sram, it's not a problem as rivets do not
    sheer their peening shoulders, but again, this is NOT the case with
    shimano, so a new rivet is mandatory.

    regarding your mechanic being "well respected", that's much more a
    function of their self-promotion abilities than their actual skill or
    knowledge - as you seem to suspect. near where i live, there's a guy
    that promotes himself as the hottest wheelbuilder around - massive "word
    of mouth" following, but having examined several pieces of his work, i
    can say that it's distinctly average - more than 1mm lateral play after
    100 miles, uneven spoke tensions... very average indeed. otoh, another
    builder i know is quite exceptional, but he's very quiet & modest &
    "road only" so he's known to a much smaller following of aficionadoes.


  13. Quoted message said:

    He is asking for a broken chain, on a chain
    that is known for breaking even when connected properly.

    Really?
    I have 23,332 miles on my DA10 and have not had a broken chain.
    I do have it changed every 1,000-1,500 miles and that may help...

  14. RonSonic said:
    Martin said:

    The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    I guess I'm slow - why would he need to use two rivets to rejoin a chain? If he
    opened the chain for service, that's one rivet - OTOH if he's repairing a broken
    chain that's also one rivet.

    The special pin that was originally used to join the chain had partially
    come out leaving the chain joined by one plate of the link. This plate
    was bent so the mechanic replaced one link and reused original rivets at
    both ends. The first symptom I noticed was the chain coming off the
    small ring (at low speed and moderate effort) on a hill. The mechanic
    said he sees that kind of failure quite often in the special pins (which
    are installed by the bike manufacturer, not by him).

    Martin

    Quoted message said:

    Ron

    Quoted message said:

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop. It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the
    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Many thanks

    Martin

    --
    Removed z before replying by email.

  15. Monty said:
    Quoted message said:

    He is asking for a broken chain, on a chain
    that is known for breaking even when connected properly.

    Really?
    I have 23,332 miles on my DA10 and have not had a broken chain.
    I do have it changed every 1,000-1,500 miles and that may help...

    I decided to save the pin when I replaced my DA10 chain. Left me
    by the side of the road within 200 mi. Been using the pin since
    and no problems between chain replacement.

  16. Quoted message said:

    [...] With SRAM chains, you can reuse existing rivets, or use the
    special link that allows you to break the chain with no tools.

    Some SRAM chains can *ONLY* be re-assembled with the special link.
    Re-installing the same rivet is not a supported option...

    Ciao,
    --
    Roberto Divia` Love at first sight is one of the greatest
    Dep:PH Bat:53 Mailbox:C02110 labour-saving devices the world has ever seen
    Route de Meyrin 385 ---------------------------------------------
    Case Postale Phone: +41-22-767-4994
    CH-1211 Geneve 23 CERN Fax: +41-22-767-9585
    Switzerland E-Mail: [email hidden]

  17. Monty said:
    Quoted message said:

    He is asking for a broken chain, on a chain
    that is known for breaking even when connected properly.

    Really?
    I have 23,332 miles on my DA10 and have not had a broken chain.
    I do have it changed every 1,000-1,500 miles and that may help...

    Really. Glad you, as a single rider, with changing your chain
    regularly,haven't had an issue. GOOD for you. But as a wrench, I have
    seen many 10s systems and have seen about 4 chains DA 10s chains break.
    Most were installed improperly, one was installed correctly.

  18. Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

    Really. Glad you, as a single rider, with changing your chain
    regularly,haven't had an issue. GOOD for you. But as a wrench, I have
    seen many 10s systems and have seen about 4 chains DA 10s chains break.
    Most were installed improperly, one was installed correctly.

    I happen to like Shimano 10 chain. I never use the Shimano links.
    Somehow, I've never been skilled enough to get the break off link to
    work perfectly, even with the 9sp chain.

    I do us the Sram 9 link on Shimano 9 and 10 chain and other 10sp
    chain.

    So far, my favorite 10sp link is the Connex 10 because it's easy to
    install and comes off easy too. The downside is the cost of an
    individual link. I do use the same link over several chains and have
    done so for several years now w/o bad results.

  19. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    The other day the mechanic at my local bike shop rejoined my Shimano 10
    speed Ultegra chain reusing two rivets. Looking at the link under a
    jeweler's magnifying glass I can clearly see that the peening on the
    rivets is missing and I can see the countersinking in the plates around
    the rivets.

    The mechanic is very experienced, very well respected and services many
    bikes in a busy shop. It looks like the rivets have been inserted to the
    correct depth. Nevertheless the contact area between rivets and plate is
    substantially less than it should be and the peeening that would prevent
    the rivet moving is absent.

    I am interested in readers' opinions and experience regarding the safety
    and durability of this repair job. Do many people reuse rivets? Any
    experiences of reused rivets working well? or failing?

    Sounds like a chain I would not want to ride. There is a reason Shimano
    insists you use those expensive pins.
    -------------
    Alex

  20. On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:48:41 GMT, "Monty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    He is asking for a broken chain, on a chain
    that is known for breaking even when connected properly.

    Really?
    I have 23,332 miles on my DA10 and have not had a broken chain.
    I do have it changed every 1,000-1,500 miles and that may help...

    As the service rep at my Mercedes-Benz dealer said to me when I told
    him I change my oil every 3,000 miles, "Well, it's your money."

    jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

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