shimagnolo

The problem is most shops will probably not mix and match Campy and
Shimano due to warranty issues. Sometimes you can get it to work,
sometimes not. There are devices, like the Jtek thing, that can make
say Campy shifters work with shimano derailleurs.

What about doing it yourself? I do. I run Campy 9 shifters, rear der
with Shimano 9 cassette/hub and at least for me, a shimano 9 chain (its
narrower than Campy 9 chain, thus shifters faster and quieter). If you
try it and still can't get it to work, try one of those jtek things.
All in all, not too difficult and you learn how to work on your own
bike!

Otherwise, some shops to talk to:

in SF - Bike Nook, DD Cycles, City Cycles and American Cyclery; in
Sausalito, A Bicycle Odyssey.

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

You're starting with a new frame and want to build it up with a
mismatched set of parts? Why not just get Campagnolo shifters, rear
derailleur, wheel, and cassette if you're starting from scratch? Any
brand chain or crankset will do. Campagnolo hubbed wheels are the same
price as Shimano hubbed wheels. Performance sells Record or Dura Ace
10 speed hubs/Open Pro wheels for $300. Either set, same price.
Before various coupon discounts of course. Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US. I've never understood people who go to extra trouble to make
their life more complicated.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

You're starting with a new frame and want to build it up with a
mismatched set of parts? Why not just get Campagnolo shifters, rear
derailleur, wheel, and cassette if you're starting from scratch? Any
brand chain or crankset will do. Campagnolo hubbed wheels are the same
price as Shimano hubbed wheels. Performance sells Record or Dura Ace
10 speed hubs/Open Pro wheels for $300. Either set, same price.
Before various coupon discounts of course. Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US. I've never understood people who go to extra trouble to make
their life more complicated.

I just replaced my Shimano front derailleur clamp that came with the
frame with a campagnolo one after three years. It just didn't seem right
on a Campy equipped bike ...;-)

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

You're starting with a new frame and want to build it up with a
mismatched set of parts? Why not just get Campagnolo shifters, rear
derailleur, wheel, and cassette if you're starting from scratch? Any
brand chain or crankset will do. Campagnolo hubbed wheels are the same
price as Shimano hubbed wheels. Performance sells Record or Dura Ace
10 speed hubs/Open Pro wheels for $300. Either set, same price.
Before various coupon discounts of course. Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US. I've never understood people who go to extra trouble to make
their life more complicated.

These kinds of setups can give you access to wider/different gearing,
long derailers, semi-indexed front shifting and/or better repairability
of the brifters where you wouldn't otherwise have it. It makes tons of
sense.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

Shiftmate works a treat. Easy to use and makes my 9 speed Dura-Ace
derailleur work with my Campy 10s shifters like they were made for each
other.

http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

Tim McTeague

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

It can be done, but the question comes up... as to why? If there's something
you dislike about Shimano, chances are it has something to do with the shift
levers. So what, exactly, are the remaining issues someone might have with
going to Campy for everything? The only other area where the two companies
presently take different paths are in the cranksets.

As for mixing & matching, yes, the Jtek stuff is one way to go, probably the
best way at this time. You can check out how it works here-
http://jtekengineering.com/Images/ShiftMate/shiftmate%20Instructions.pdf
(that's a link for the actual installation instructions). I get a bit
uncomfortable when you're asking cables to undergo somewhat convoluted
routing, as seen in the lower-right-corner.

As for "outside the box" thinking, most shops have had fun with customers
who believe something should work, buy the parts, and then bring them back
saying there's something wrong because they don't (work together). It
doesn't take too many such situations before you decide that it's not
something you want to encourage. An example?

Someone reads somewhere that it's OK to replace a 42t middle chainring on a
9-speed Ultegra triple with a 39t, because someone said it works "fine."
That is extrapolated to mean that it works as well with the 39 as it does
with a 42, and when it doesn't, they believe there's something else wrong
with the bike that's causing it not to shift as well (typically not wanting
to drop off the 39t down to the smallest chainring). So, from our viewpoint,
we establish a baseline of what works well and what doesn't, based upon
experience. It simply doesn't work the way it's meant to. But when we
explain that to a customer who wants us to set up a bike that way, they tell
us, sometimes literally, that we're idiots who don't know how to work on
things, because their friend has it and it works "fine."

Another example would be the wax lube scare of the 90s. There was a
near-cult of people who would clean their drivetrains of all oil, and
literally dip them into melted parafin. If happiness is a clean drivetrain,
these people were very happy. But they would come into the shop with
shifting issues, which would magically disappear if we replaced the parafin
with a more-conventional lube.

I should stop refrain from stepping on any more sacred cows...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

It can be done, but the question comes up... as to why? If there's something
you dislike about Shimano, chances are it has something to do with the shift
levers. So what, exactly, are the remaining issues someone might have with
going to Campy for everything? The only other area where the two companies
presently take different paths are in the cranksets.

Shimano gives you down to 11-34 and long cage derailers, but front
indexing makes STI pretty much eternally kludgy with most crank/fd
setups they aren't made for. That and a few other reasons (STI
interferes with handlebar bags, Ergo is much more repairable, etc) make
Ergo with a Shimano rd and cassette a very, very good setup.

Quoted message said:

As for mixing & matching, yes, the Jtek stuff is one way to go, probably the
best way at this time.

The Jtek stuff isn't necessary for arguably the hottest of these
setups, such as 10s Ergo shifting 9s Shimano derailers and cassettes
using an alternate cable anchor position, or 8s Shimano stuff with the
normal cable anchor.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

What the Jtek's do well is let you mix random stuff you already have.

The other possibility is just respacing Shimano cassettes with low
gearing to Campy spacing. Wheels does this for $40 per cassette and
then you could just re-use the spacers after that - I don't know
another way of getting them besides making them yourself.

You can check out how it works here-

Quoted message said:

http://jtekengineering.com/Images/ShiftMate/shiftmate%20Instructions.pdf
(that's a link for the actual installation instructions). I get a bit
uncomfortable when you're asking cables to undergo somewhat convoluted
routing, as seen in the lower-right-corner.

As for "outside the box" thinking, most shops have had fun with customers
who believe something should work, buy the parts, and then bring them back
saying there's something wrong because they don't (work together). It
doesn't take too many such situations before you decide that it's not
something you want to encourage. An example?

Someone reads somewhere that it's OK to replace a 42t middle chainring on a
9-speed Ultegra triple with a 39t, because someone said it works "fine."
That is extrapolated to mean that it works as well with the 39 as it does
with a 42, and when it doesn't, they believe there's something else wrong
with the bike that's causing it not to shift as well (typically not wanting
to drop off the 39t down to the smallest chainring). So, from our viewpoint,
we establish a baseline of what works well and what doesn't, based upon
experience. It simply doesn't work the way it's meant to. But when we
explain that to a customer who wants us to set up a bike that way, they tell
us, sometimes literally, that we're idiots who don't know how to work on
things, because their friend has it and it works "fine."

Another example would be the wax lube scare of the 90s. There was a
near-cult of people who would clean their drivetrains of all oil, and
literally dip them into melted parafin. If happiness is a clean drivetrain,
these people were very happy. But they would come into the shop with
shifting issues, which would magically disappear if we replaced the parafin
with a more-conventional lube.

I should stop refrain from stepping on any more sacred cows...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

I should refrain from stepping on any more sacred cows...

But why? They make such divine hamburger!
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In article
<[email hidden]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I should stop refrain from stepping on any more sacred cows...

And mixing martinis ... uh, metaphors.

Do not step in any of that sacred cow stuff.

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It can be done, but the question comes up... as to why? If there's
something
you dislike about Shimano, chances are it has something to do with the
shift
levers. So what, exactly, are the remaining issues someone might have
with
going to Campy for everything? The only other area where the two
companies
presently take different paths are in the cranksets.

Shimano gives you down to 11-34 and long cage derailers, but front
indexing makes STI pretty much eternally kludgy with most crank/fd
setups they aren't made for. That and a few other reasons (STI
interferes with handlebar bags, Ergo is much more repairable, etc) make
Ergo with a Shimano rd and cassette a very, very good setup.

You're right; guess I've been dealing too much with 10-speed stuff and the
frustration of not having the larger-size rear cassettes available. Nothing
bigger than a 27t is total nonsense, so perhaps being able to put a campy
rear wheel (with a 12-29) on a Shimano 10-speed system would be one more
reason to do so.

You're also correct about Ergopower being less picky about non-standard
chainring configurations.

Gosh, I'm only working for another hour and a half tonight, which doesn't
give me too much time to find something I got right... since, once I get
home, I'm wrong about *everything!* :>😉

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

It can be done, but the question comes up... as to why? If there's
something
you dislike about Shimano, chances are it has something to do with the
shift
levers. So what, exactly, are the remaining issues someone might have
with
going to Campy for everything? The only other area where the two
companies
presently take different paths are in the cranksets.

Shimano gives you down to 11-34 and long cage derailers, but front
indexing makes STI pretty much eternally kludgy with most crank/fd
setups they aren't made for. That and a few other reasons (STI
interferes with handlebar bags, Ergo is much more repairable, etc) make
Ergo with a Shimano rd and cassette a very, very good setup.

Quoted message said:

As for mixing & matching, yes, the Jtek stuff is one way to go, probably
the
best way at this time.

The Jtek stuff isn't necessary for arguably the hottest of these
setups, such as 10s Ergo shifting 9s Shimano derailers and cassettes
using an alternate cable anchor position, or 8s Shimano stuff with the
normal cable anchor.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

What the Jtek's do well is let you mix random stuff you already have.

The other possibility is just respacing Shimano cassettes with low
gearing to Campy spacing. Wheels does this for $40 per cassette and
then you could just re-use the spacers after that - I don't know
another way of getting them besides making them yourself.

You can check out how it works here-

Quoted message said:

http://jtekengineering.com/Images/ShiftMate/shiftmate%20Instructions.pdf
(that's a link for the actual installation instructions). I get a bit
uncomfortable when you're asking cables to undergo somewhat convoluted
routing, as seen in the lower-right-corner.

As for "outside the box" thinking, most shops have had fun with customers
who believe something should work, buy the parts, and then bring them
back
saying there's something wrong because they don't (work together). It
doesn't take too many such situations before you decide that it's not
something you want to encourage. An example?

Someone reads somewhere that it's OK to replace a 42t middle chainring on
a
9-speed Ultegra triple with a 39t, because someone said it works "fine."
That is extrapolated to mean that it works as well with the 39 as it does
with a 42, and when it doesn't, they believe there's something else wrong
with the bike that's causing it not to shift as well (typically not
wanting
to drop off the 39t down to the smallest chainring). So, from our
viewpoint,
we establish a baseline of what works well and what doesn't, based upon
experience. It simply doesn't work the way it's meant to. But when we
explain that to a customer who wants us to set up a bike that way, they
tell
us, sometimes literally, that we're idiots who don't know how to work on
things, because their friend has it and it works "fine."

Another example would be the wax lube scare of the 90s. There was a
near-cult of people who would clean their drivetrains of all oil, and
literally dip them into melted parafin. If happiness is a clean
drivetrain,
these people were very happy. But they would come into the shop with
shifting issues, which would magically disappear if we replaced the
parafin
with a more-conventional lube.

I should stop refrain from stepping on any more sacred cows...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

Bicycle Odessey
Bike Nook

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

It can be done, but the question comes up... as to why? If there's something
you dislike about Shimano, chances are it has something to do with the shift
levers. So what, exactly, are the remaining issues someone might have with
going to Campy for everything? The only other area where the two companies
presently take different paths are in the cranksets.

As for mixing & matching, yes, the Jtek stuff is one way to go, probably the
best way at this time. You can check out how it works here-
http://jtekengineering.com/Images/ShiftMate/shiftmate%20Instructions.pdf
(that's a link for the actual installation instructions). I get a bit
uncomfortable when you're asking cables to undergo somewhat convoluted
routing, as seen in the lower-right-corner.

As for "outside the box" thinking, most shops have had fun with customers
who believe something should work, buy the parts, and then bring them back
saying there's something wrong because they don't (work together). It
doesn't take too many such situations before you decide that it's not
something you want to encourage. An example?

Someone reads somewhere that it's OK to replace a 42t middle chainring on a
9-speed Ultegra triple with a 39t, because someone said it works "fine."
That is extrapolated to mean that it works as well with the 39 as it does
with a 42, and when it doesn't, they believe there's something else wrong
with the bike that's causing it not to shift as well (typically not wanting
to drop off the 39t down to the smallest chainring).

If you use a 7703 or 6603 front der and a TA 39t middle, with pins and
ramps, it does work as well.

So, from our viewpoint,

Quoted message said:

we establish a baseline of what works well and what doesn't, based upon
experience. It simply doesn't work the way it's meant to. But when we
explain that to a customer who wants us to set up a bike that way, they tell
us, sometimes literally, that we're idiots who don't know how to work on
things, because their friend has it and it works "fine."

Another example would be the wax lube scare of the 90s. There was a
near-cult of people who would clean their drivetrains of all oil, and
literally dip them into melted parafin. If happiness is a clean drivetrain,
these people were very happy. But they would come into the shop with
shifting issues, which would magically disappear if we replaced the parafin
with a more-conventional lube.

I should stop refrain from stepping on any more sacred cows...

As a mostly Trek and shimano place, i'm not surprised you don't
encourage things like ERGO 10s and Campag rear ders with shimano 9s or
a Wheels Accel 10s cogset, cuz that's not what you sell and support.

We mix stuff all the time. Not with new bikes but often(just did this
on a Torelli), get rid of STI and RD for Campag ERGO and RD...cuz the
6500 levers stopped working(imagine!!).

Quoted message said:

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

Nate Knutson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

You're starting with a new frame and want to build it up with a
mismatched set of parts? Why not just get Campagnolo shifters, rear
derailleur, wheel, and cassette if you're starting from scratch? Any
brand chain or crankset will do. Campagnolo hubbed wheels are the same
price as Shimano hubbed wheels. Performance sells Record or Dura Ace
10 speed hubs/Open Pro wheels for $300. Either set, same price.
Before various coupon discounts of course. Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US. I've never understood people who go to extra trouble to make
their life more complicated.

These kinds of setups can give you access to wider/different gearing,

Campagnolo makes a vast assortment of cassettes in 9 or 10 speed.
Unless you are riding a tandem or and need very high AND very low
(11-32 or 11-34 or 12-34 in 9 speed) you get no wider/different gearing
between Shimano and Campagnolo cassettes. And the 11-32, 11-34, 12-34
Shimano only applies to 9 speed. Shimano 10 speed cassettes only go up
to 12-27 and down to 11-21. Campagnolo has wider 10 speed cassettes
than Shimano. 13-29 on the upper end.

Quoted message said:

long derailers,

Campagnolo makes short, medium, and long cage rear derailleurs.
Campagnolo's long cage rear derailleur is longer than any Shimano long
cage rear derailleur.

semi-indexed front shifting

This is bad, bad, bad. Ergo allows you to micro indes/ratchet the
front derailleur. Far superior to the Shimano slam the chain down
method.

and/or better repairability

Quoted message said:

of the brifters

If he is mixing Campagnolo and Shimano parts on the same bike, he is
almost certainly going with Campagnolo shifters and rear derailleur.
Therefore, he has repairability of the shifters. Unlike Shimano, which
are not repairable and are either flushed with WD40 to repair or thrown
in the trash.

where you wouldn't otherwise have it. It makes tons of

Quoted message said:

sense.

Makes no sense. If you want to run Campagnolo shifters and rear
derailleurs, get a Campagnolo hub and cassette and don't muck about
with adaptors. Get what works, guaranteed.

Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
Thanks

You're starting with a new frame and want to build it up with a
mismatched set of parts? Why not just get Campagnolo shifters, rear
derailleur, wheel, and cassette if you're starting from scratch? Any
brand chain or crankset will do. Campagnolo hubbed wheels are the same
price as Shimano hubbed wheels. Performance sells Record or Dura Ace
10 speed hubs/Open Pro wheels for $300. Either set, same price.
Before various coupon discounts of course. Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US. I've never understood people who go to extra trouble to make
their life more complicated.

I just replaced my Shimano front derailleur clamp that came with the
frame with a campagnolo one after three years. It just didn't seem right
on a Campy equipped bike ...;-)

Lou

My Waterford and Chorus bike came with a plastic Shimano under bottom
bracket guide. I bought a metal Campagnolo under bottom bracket guide
to replace the Shimano plastic.

A frame I just bought came with that Shimano front derailleur clamp
thing. I bought a clamp on Campagnolo front derailleur instead of a
braze on so I would not have to use that Shimano clamp. No Shimano
parts will be on this frame.

I will admit to using a Shimano front derailleur and brake calipers on
one of my bikes. They were cheap and sort of work OK. To make the
front derailleur shift in far enough I did take a file to the back of
it to adjust it. Being cheap Shimano, I had no hesitancy to do this.
So I guess Shimano is OK in certain situations.

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

>Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
>philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
>'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
>sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
>Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
>Thanks

You're starting with a new frame and want to build it up with a
mismatched set of parts? Why not just get Campagnolo shifters, rear
derailleur, wheel, and cassette if you're starting from scratch? Any
brand chain or crankset will do. Campagnolo hubbed wheels are the same
price as Shimano hubbed wheels. Performance sells Record or Dura Ace
10 speed hubs/Open Pro wheels for $300. Either set, same price.
Before various coupon discounts of course. Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US. I've never understood people who go to extra trouble to make
their life more complicated.

I just replaced my Shimano front derailleur clamp that came with the
frame with a campagnolo one after three years. It just didn't seem right
on a Campy equipped bike ...;-)

Lou

My Waterford and Chorus bike came with a plastic Shimano under bottom
bracket guide. I bought a metal Campagnolo under bottom bracket guide
to replace the Shimano plastic.

A frame I just bought came with that Shimano front derailleur clamp
thing. I bought a clamp on Campagnolo front derailleur instead of a
braze on so I would not have to use that Shimano clamp. No Shimano
parts will be on this frame.

I will admit to using a Shimano front derailleur and brake calipers on
one of my bikes. They were cheap and sort of work OK. To make the
front derailleur shift in far enough I did take a file to the back of
it to adjust it. Being cheap Shimano, I had no hesitancy to do this.
So I guess Shimano is OK in certain situations.

;-)
Only Shimano on my ATB. For my roadbikes Shimano brifters and Shimano
cranksets (10 speed) are to ugly. Simple. ATB's are ugly by default so
it's OK to use Shimano there and it's works fine.

Lou
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Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[email hidden] wrote in news:1143669185.976240.51280
@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US.

I just got a Miche Campy-splined 13-28 cassette for $35 (from
http://www.universalcycles.com ) That's about half of what a Veloce of that
range goes for in the states, and about even with one from Europe, without
paying $20 for shipping.

It's a skosh heavier than the Veloce, but it also includes a lockring, and
I don't mind having a spare.

Quoted message said:

Nate Knutson said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Looking for a lbs in the SF or bay area that is comfortable with the
> philosophy and techniques of Sheldon Brown. So far they all spout the
> 'party line' that you cant mix and match Shimano and Campagnolo. My
> sense is that either it is too much trouble or too far outside the box.
> Want to build up my new frame in an intelligent and economical fashion.
> Thanks

You're starting with a new frame and want to build it up with a
mismatched set of parts? Why not just get Campagnolo shifters, rear
derailleur, wheel, and cassette if you're starting from scratch? Any
brand chain or crankset will do. Campagnolo hubbed wheels are the same
price as Shimano hubbed wheels. Performance sells Record or Dura Ace
10 speed hubs/Open Pro wheels for $300. Either set, same price.
Before various coupon discounts of course. Yes you will pay more for
Campagnolo cassettes than Shimano. But you buy a new cassette every
2-3 years, not much of a wallet buster. Or order your Campagnolo
cassettes from England and get them cheaper than Shimano cassettes in
the US. I've never understood people who go to extra trouble to make
their life more complicated.

These kinds of setups can give you access to wider/different gearing,

Campagnolo makes a vast assortment of cassettes in 9 or 10 speed.
Unless you are riding a tandem or and need very high AND very low
(11-32 or 11-34 or 12-34 in 9 speed) you get no wider/different gearing
between Shimano and Campagnolo cassettes. And the 11-32, 11-34, 12-34
Shimano only applies to 9 speed. Shimano 10 speed cassettes only go up
to 12-27 and down to 11-21. Campagnolo has wider 10 speed cassettes
than Shimano. 13-29 on the upper end.

Quoted message said:

long derailers,

Access to bigger cogs than 29 is the whole point of this and it's
relevant for a lot more than tandems.

Quoted message said:

Campagnolo makes short, medium, and long cage rear derailleurs.
Campagnolo's long cage rear derailleur is longer than any Shimano long
cage rear derailleur.

You're right that Campy has long cage derailers; I didn't realize that.
Going down to 34 is relevant for a lot more than tandems though.

Quoted message said:

semi-indexed front shifting

This is bad, bad, bad. Ergo allows you to micro indes/ratchet the
front derailleur. Far superior to the Shimano slam the chain down
method.

"Semi-indexed" = one of the terms for the way Ergo does it.

Quoted message said:

and/or better repairability

Quoted message said:

of the brifters

If he is mixing Campagnolo and Shimano parts on the same bike, he is
almost certainly going with Campagnolo shifters and rear derailleur.
Therefore, he has repairability of the shifters. Unlike Shimano, which
are not repairable and are either flushed with WD40 to repair or thrown
in the trash.

where you wouldn't otherwise have it. It makes tons of

Quoted message said:

sense.

Makes no sense. If you want to run Campagnolo shifters and rear
derailleurs, get a Campagnolo hub and cassette and don't muck about
with adaptors. Get what works, guaranteed.

If you want brifters, really low gears in back, and a crank/fd setup
that doesn't work very well with STI (almost everything besides current
road stuff, but thats another conversation), then mixing Ergo with a
Shimano rear der and Shimano-compatible cassette is basically the best
way to make it all work. Using an alternate cable anchor position, you
can have 10s Ergo emulate 9s Shimano shifters basically exactly on a
Shimano derailer. There's a few other ways to do it but this generally
is simplest. Whether brifters make sense over bar ends is basically a
personal call here.

Hank Wirtz said:

I just got a Miche Campy-splined 13-28 cassette for $35 (from
http://www.universalcycles.com ) That's about half of what a Veloce of
that
range goes for in the states, and about even with one from Europe, without
paying $20 for shipping.

Interesting, but I haven't heard of them. Do they work okay with 9 speed
Ergo?

Charlie Wilson said:

Hank Wirtz said:

I just got a Miche Campy-splined 13-28 cassette for $35 (from
http://www.universalcycles.com ) That's about half of what a Veloce of
that
range goes for in the states, and about even with one from Europe, without
paying $20 for shipping.

Interesting, but I haven't heard of them. Do they work okay with 9 speed
Ergo?

Yes, the Miche 9sp is fine with Ergo 9. I have used both Miche and
Campag Veloce, sometimes mixing the cogs from both together.

/Robert