Shifting with integrated shifters

burnedtechie said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only ridden
her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road bike) but said
she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to shift gears was so
hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand around a long distance
to make the shift and it was completely impossible in the drops
(although maybe folks don't shift in drops and never brake on the flat
bar part??). The shifters/brakes are Sora, I believe.

We're looking to buy bikes, and she said she doesn't want one that's
this difficult to shift with her hands. Is there a shifter/brake group
I should look for? Is it on affordable bikes? (<$1500) ?

Well, it looks like anything by Campagnolo is out of the running, but all
non-Sora road brifters from Shimano would probably work out.

That is to say, any shimano brifter from Tiagra on up. Instead of having
a lever on the inside face of the brifter hood, they have a lever inside
the brake lever. To shift in one direction, flick the brake lever. To
shift in another, flick only the lever behind. Easy to do from the drops.

Personally, I like the Campagnolo/ Shimano Sora setup better, but that's a
matter of personal preference.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only ridden
her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road bike) but said
she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to shift gears was so
hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand around a long distance
to make the shift and it was completely impossible in the drops
(although maybe folks don't shift in drops and never brake on the flat
bar part??). The shifters/brakes are Sora, I believe.

We're looking to buy bikes, and she said she doesn't want one that's
this difficult to shift with her hands. Is there a shifter/brake group
I should look for? Is it on affordable bikes? (<$1500) ?

You should probably try to find a bike that has bar-end shifters just to
give it a try. You/she may like them, or may not.

Quoted message said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only ridden
her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road bike) but said
she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to shift gears was so
hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand around a long distance
to make the shift and it was completely impossible in the drops
(although maybe folks don't shift in drops and never brake on the flat
bar part??). The shifters/brakes are Sora, I believe.

We're looking to buy bikes, and she said she doesn't want one that's
this difficult to shift with her hands. Is there a shifter/brake group
I should look for? Is it on affordable bikes? (<$1500) ?

$1500?? I'd look for a bike with either traditional down tube shifters
or bar-ends. You should easily be able to find something that's
beautiful and used for a third of that.

If you want new, $1500 is enough to build something custom with
whatever shifters you want, as long as you start with a reasonably
priced factory frame. I like the Soma Smoothie and Surly pacer, but I'm
biased against no frills frames with long reach brakes that can accept
a variety of tire styles.

Peter Cole said:

You should probably try to find a bike that has bar-end shifters just to
give it a try. You/she may like them, or may not.

I like mine, but people's milage seems to vary. One of my coworkers who
went from DT -> STI recently was interested in my bar-ends. She
actually prefers the DT in a lot of ways. [1] I told her it's usually
not too hard to mount her current DT shifters as bar-ends, but I'm not
sure if she wants to fiddle with her old bike at all.

[1] I detest DT shifters personally, but I'll ride them if necessary.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"It ain't over 'til it's over, and maybe not then either.
-Slovotsky's Law #29

Dane Buson said:

Peter Cole said:

You should probably try to find a bike that has bar-end shifters just to
give it a try. You/she may like them, or may not.

I like mine, but people's milage seems to vary. One of my coworkers who
went from DT -> STI recently was interested in my bar-ends. She
actually prefers the DT in a lot of ways. [1] I told her it's usually
not too hard to mount her current DT shifters as bar-ends, but I'm not
sure if she wants to fiddle with her old bike at all.

[1] I detest DT shifters personally, but I'll ride them if necessary.

I never tried indexed DT shifters, so I'm not sure whether it was the
location or the friction mode that I disliked, or maybe it was that the
ones I had were just really crappy -- I guess I'll never know. I found
the location of stem shifters even worse. Bar-ends seem automatic, but
maybe that's because I'm so used to them.

Peter Cole said:

Dane Buson said:

Peter Cole said:

You should probably try to find a bike that has bar-end shifters just to
give it a try. You/she may like them, or may not.

I like mine, but people's milage seems to vary. One of my coworkers who
went from DT -> STI recently was interested in my bar-ends. She
actually prefers the DT in a lot of ways. [1] I told her it's usually
not too hard to mount her current DT shifters as bar-ends, but I'm not
sure if she wants to fiddle with her old bike at all.

[1] I detest DT shifters personally, but I'll ride them if necessary.

I never tried indexed DT shifters, so I'm not sure whether it was the
location or the friction mode that I disliked, or maybe it was that the
ones I had were just really crappy -- I guess I'll never know. I found
the location of stem shifters even worse. Bar-ends seem automatic, but
maybe that's because I'm so used to them.

That's often what it is, basic familiarity.

My favorite shifters are the downtube 105 shifters from circa '90 with
switchable friction mode in case something goes awry on your ride.
Gentle detents with subdued shifting noise. Hands down my favorite
shifters ever.

Second fave are the original Deore indexed 6 speed thumbies. Delicious
feel, bulletproof construction, and friction mode in case you want to
use any random freehub in back.

Currently I have the Shimano flat bar trigger/thumb shifters with a
Tiagra setup on my utility ride, and though they shift well, they feel
[censored] and cheap, and are loud and inelegant, I also find Shimano
brifters to feel the same way. Both get the job done, but are obnoxious
about it. Sort of like a 4 year old screaming "mommy mommy, look at
me!" each time you shift.

I'm sure I'd agree with bar-ends as well, just haven't done any real
riding with them.

[email hidden] wrote in news:1147437578.943455.278350
@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only ridden
her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road bike) but said
she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to shift gears was so
hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand around a long distance
to make the shift and it was completely impossible in the drops
(although maybe folks don't shift in drops and never brake on the flat
bar part??). The shifters/brakes are Sora, I believe.

We're looking to buy bikes, and she said she doesn't want one that's
this difficult to shift with her hands. Is there a shifter/brake group
I should look for? Is it on affordable bikes? (<$1500) ?

I had Sora's, and after going around downhill curves and wanting to
upshift on the rear sprocket/right-hand, I found that the Sora setup
frightening because I had to move my hand not only off the drops, but off
the handlebars. I immediately upgraded to 105s and haven't looked back.

I now shudder even looking at the at Schwinn with the stem shifters.

Try getting someone at a good Local Bike Shop to setup an appropriate
handlebar with adjustable levers to fit your wife's hands. I know when I
had the levers too high on the bar to allow easy riding on the hoods
there was an awful long reach to the handbrakes when in the drop
position. Even for a sub-$1500 bike, an LBS should be obliging, and may
even recommend a handlebar that helps.

The front chainring/left-hand is going to be a problem, though,
especially since it's nearly a given that it needs a little more oomph
and duration to ensure the chain shifts properly even with an
indexed/integrated setup.

If she doesn't ride in the drops, though, this is all moot.

Luigi de Guzman said:

burnedtechie said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only ridden
her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road bike) but said
she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to shift gears was so
hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand around a long distance
to make the shift and it was completely impossible in the drops
(although maybe folks don't shift in drops and never brake on the flat
bar part??). The shifters/brakes are Sora, I believe.

Quoted message said:

Well, it looks like anything by Campagnolo is out of the running, but all
non-Sora road brifters from Shimano would probably work out.

That is to say, any shimano brifter from Tiagra on up. Instead of having
a lever on the inside face of the brifter hood, they have a lever inside
the brake lever. To shift in one direction, flick the brake lever. To
shift in another, flick only the lever behind. Easy to do from the drops.

but a key difference betwen ergos and sora is that the button is in the
wrong place on soras so it is impossible to reach from the drops but
this is not a problem with ergos. The OP' wife should try to find
examples of non-sora STIs and Ergos to make a comparison as it is an
issue not only taste but hand size and mobility

best wishes
james

[email hidden] wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

burnedtechie said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only
ridden her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road
bike) but said she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to
shift gears was so hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand
around a long distance to make the shift and it was completely
impossible in the drops (although maybe folks don't shift in drops
and never brake on the flat bar part??). The shifters/brakes are
Sora, I believe.

Quoted message said:

Well, it looks like anything by Campagnolo is out of the running, but
all non-Sora road brifters from Shimano would probably work out.

That is to say, any shimano brifter from Tiagra on up. Instead of
having a lever on the inside face of the brifter hood, they have a
lever inside the brake lever. To shift in one direction, flick the
brake lever. To shift in another, flick only the lever behind. Easy
to do from the drops.

but a key difference betwen ergos and sora is that the button is in
the wrong place on soras so it is impossible to reach from the drops
but this is not a problem with ergos. The OP' wife should try to find
examples of non-sora STIs and Ergos to make a comparison as it is an
issue not only taste but hand size and mobility

best wishes
james

I believe Shimano makes 'short-reach' shifters specifically with smaller
female hands in mind.

There are also details at the Shimano site dealing specifically with
shorter throws on the shift motions in addition to shorter reaches.

All in a 10 speed package, too.

Luigi de Guzman said:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 05:39:39 -0700, burnedtechie wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

We're looking to buy bikes, and she said she doesn't want one that's
this difficult to shift with her hands. Is there a shifter/brake group
I should look for? Is it on affordable bikes? (<$1500) ?

Well, it looks like anything by Campagnolo is out of the running, but all
non-Sora road brifters from Shimano would probably work out.

Just wanted to point out that there's at least one company making
<$1500 Campy-equipped bikes. Bianchi's Eros and Eros Donna have a
Campagnolo Mirage component group and are around $1200 new. You may
also be able to find last year's Bianchi Veloce (with a Veloce group)
for under $1500, if a dealer has any left over in your wife's size.
Both bikes have steel frames and are likely a bit heavier than
Shimano-equipped bikes in a similar price range, but of course everyone
around this NG will tell you not to fret about a pound or two on the
bike.

I thought I remember hearing about some other Campy-equipped bikes in
the $1100-1500 range a year or so back, but don't recall the make/model.

FWIW, I have 2 Campy bikes and far prefer the lever placement on Ergo
brifters to that of STI, but have no religious sentiments against the
use of Shimano components and just bought my girlfriend a lovely
STI-equipped road bike.

--
-------
Yoni Mazuz
(there isn't actually [censored] in my e-mail address)

Quoted message said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only ridden
her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road bike) but said
she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to shift gears was so
hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand around a long distance
to make the shift and it was completely impossible in the drops
(although maybe folks don't shift in drops and never brake on the flat
bar part??). The shifters/brakes are Sora, I believe.

We're looking to buy bikes, and she said she doesn't want one that's
this difficult to shift with her hands. Is there a shifter/brake group
I should look for? Is it on affordable bikes? (<$1500) ?

My experience with test-riding a Sora-equipped bike was the same. The
thumb button was too far forward to reach from the drops, and the main
lever took a pretty big push.

Tiagra and higher STI shifters are a little different. Instead of the
thumb button, there's a smaller lever behind the brake lever. It's easy
to reach from the drops. Rear downshifts are also easier because the
main lever doesn't need to be pushed as far. You can downshift up to
three cogs at once, and the lever throw to shift three cogs feels about
the same as shifting one cog with Sora shifters. Front upshifts from
the drops are probably still difficult, but that's not likely to be
a problem for most riders.

You should have absolutely no trouble finding a bike with Tiagra or 105
shifters in your price range.

Steve Gravrock <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Tiagra and higher STI shifters are a little different. Instead of the
thumb button, there's a smaller lever behind the brake lever. It's easy
to reach from the drops. Rear downshifts are also easier because the
main lever doesn't need to be pushed as far. You can downshift up to
three cogs at once, and the lever throw to shift three cogs feels about
the same as shifting one cog with Sora shifters. Front upshifts from
the drops are probably still difficult, but that's not likely to be
a problem for most riders.

You should have absolutely no trouble finding a bike with Tiagra or 105
shifters in your price range.

Also wanted to add that it's a completely different evolution to do a
double shift, affecting front and rear cogs at nearly the same time. With
the Tiagra et al. I find it's almost too easy to downshift like that and
tend to forget that you've got both ends of the chain moving at the same
time, if you're not careful.

But it is almost a life-affirming feeling compared to dealing with the
Sora-type setup, or one where you have a significant delay between the
front and rear shifts, with both hands leaving the drops in sequence.

wvantwiller said:

Steve Gravrock <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Tiagra and higher STI shifters are a little different. Instead of the
thumb button, there's a smaller lever behind the brake lever. It's easy
to reach from the drops. Rear downshifts are also easier because the
main lever doesn't need to be pushed as far. You can downshift up to
three cogs at once, and the lever throw to shift three cogs feels about
the same as shifting one cog with Sora shifters. Front upshifts from
the drops are probably still difficult, but that's not likely to be
a problem for most riders.

You should have absolutely no trouble finding a bike with Tiagra or 105
shifters in your price range.

Also wanted to add that it's a completely different evolution to do a
double shift, affecting front and rear cogs at nearly the same time. With
the Tiagra et al. I find it's almost too easy to downshift like that and
tend to forget that you've got both ends of the chain moving at the same
time, if you're not careful.

But it is almost a life-affirming feeling compared to dealing with the
Sora-type setup, or one where you have a significant delay between the
front and rear shifts, with both hands leaving the drops in sequence.

Now I am curious, a double synchronized shifter that does front and rear
at the same time? That would free up the hands from the first rear then
front to get the split you want but how would it be programmed? A small
microchip? Everything else has them these days, so why not?
Bill Baka

burnedtechie said:

My wife recently borrowed a friend's road bike after having only ridden
her hybrid (with grip shifters). She LOVED it (the road bike) but said
she hated the fact that shifting the brake-lever to shift gears was so
hard. She felt like she had to wrench her hand around a long distance
to make the shift and it was completely impossible in the drops
(although maybe folks don't shift in drops and never brake on the flat
bar part??). The shifters/brakes are Sora, I believe.

Well, most shifters allow you to easily shift from either the tops or
the drops, and certainly any road bike will be easy to stop from the
tops/hoods. Sora levers are particularly bad as far as shifting from the
drops go.

Quoted message said:

We're looking to buy bikes, and she said she doesn't want one that's
this difficult to shift with her hands. Is there a shifter/brake group
I should look for? Is it on affordable bikes? (<$1500) ?

One thing to look for are shifters that fit her hands. Shimano has a line
of shifters that are designed for smaller hands. AFAIK Campy does not,
but Campy shifters are great for those of us with large hands.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

Bill Baka <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

....

Quoted message said:

Now I am curious, a double synchronized shifter that does front and
rear at the same time? That would free up the hands from the first
rear then front to get the split you want but how would it be
programmed? A small microchip? Everything else has them these days, so
why not? Bill Baka

I started to think about it, but someone has to figure out an ingenious
mechanical implementation with sliding wedges, lever arms, sequential
escapments, and so forth for the timing normally done by the operator. A
proper implementation otherwise could require a PGA. But, now you've got
the problem of servos, power cables, and position feedback. Sorta like a
Shimano Flight Deck setup on steroids.

From there, you'd only be one step away from an Easy Rider Digital 2000 (or
3000).

However, it would give us all an excuse for once-again having a wind-
powered generator on our handlebars, dressed-up as your favorite prop-
driven fighter plane. Unless you put the propellor on your helmet...

In article <[email hidden]>,

wvantwiller said:

Bill Baka <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

...

Quoted message said:

Now I am curious, a double synchronized shifter that does front and
rear at the same time? That would free up the hands from the first
rear then front to get the split you want but how would it be
programmed? A small microchip? Everything else has them these days, so
why not? Bill Baka

I started to think about it, but someone has to figure out an ingenious
mechanical implementation with sliding wedges, lever arms, sequential
escapments, and so forth for the timing normally done by the operator.

I think I'd rather ride a bicycle than a Babbage calculator.
OTOH, having never before ridden a Babbage calculator, I
don't know what I'm talking about. So: never mind.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca