Shed door closes

Just zis Guy said:

I submit that on or about Sat, 06 Aug 2005 19:03:42 +0100, the person
known to the court as Tony Raven <[email hidden]> made a
statement (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's bundle)
to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking.

Shame. His resignation speech was among the best speeches in
Parliament ever.

You've listened to them all?

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

you know? said:

Quoted message said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking.

Shame. His resignation speech was among the best speeches in Parliament
ever.

Agreed. I listened to it live and was most impressed. Even went out and
bought his book about the resignation later (but was a bit disappointed
with it). He seemed to have a conscience that's not the norm in politics.

Mike

I submit that on or about Sat, 06 Aug 2005 21:16:44 +0100, the person
known to the court as Tony Raven <[email hidden]> made a
statement (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's bundle)
to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shame. His resignation speech was among the best speeches in
Parliament ever.

Quoted message said:

You've listened to them all?

Now you're being naughty!

I listen to all those which the consensus has it are worth listening
to, i.e. not many. However: best is a word which has many possible
meanings. In this case I choose it to mean one which was widely
recognised both at the time and since as having especial merit, and
having an effect beyond what could be expected. Like Howe's
resignation speech.

His performance re the Scott Report was also vintage stuff.

I am saddened that we appear to be replacing people like Tony Benn and
Robin Cook with faceless identikit clones. But perhaps, with time,
these too will develop personality.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking.

Shame. His resignation speech was among the best speeches in
Parliament ever.

I nominate the resignation speech of Geoffrey Howe.

It destroyed Thatcher so it must have been good :~)

T

Tony Raven said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking. He was described as a keen
walker and cyclist - something I never knew.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127654.stm

ObTopic: why do fit people of that age die while engaging in healthy
exercise? We[1] had a shock death here just a couple of weeks ago:
a very fit man in his late 50s died while out cycling on Dartmoor.

As for Robin Cook, his resignation speech and subsequent criticism
of his former godfather (is that an appropriate term?) earned him
some serious respect.

Hmmm ....

[1] A local society.

--
Nick Kew

Nick Kew said:

Tony Raven said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking. He was described as a keen
walker and cyclist - something I never knew.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127654.stm

ObTopic: why do fit people of that age die while engaging in healthy
exercise? We[1] had a shock death here just a couple of weeks ago:
a very fit man in his late 50s died while out cycling on Dartmoor.

I was wondering the same thing. I do not doubt the general advice that
exercise will increase life span (and physical independence into old
age etc) but it is obviously not a completely one-dimensional issue.

Quoted message said:

As for Robin Cook, his resignation speech and subsequent criticism
of his former godfather (is that an appropriate term?) earned him
some serious respect.

How much better the world would be if it was the likes of Bush who
dropped dead at an early age, rather than Cook (and eg John Smith a
decade ago, another supposedly healthy hill-walker IIRC).

James

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How much better the world would be if it was the likes of Bush who
dropped dead at an early age, rather than Cook (and eg John Smith a
decade ago, another supposedly healthy hill-walker IIRC).

John Smith took up hill walking (IIRC) after he had a serious heart attack.
He was well on through the Munroes when he died. However, clearly there
would have been residual damage from the first heart attack.

'Fit' people stress their hearts more than couch potatoes. While we might
hope all is sound -- and while normally all will be improved by exercise --
that higher stress may find out specific weaknesses that a slob would not
test.

T

Nick Kew said:

Tony Raven said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking. He was described as a keen
walker and cyclist - something I never knew.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127654.stm

ObTopic: why do fit people of that age die while engaging in healthy
exercise? We[1] had a shock death here just a couple of weeks ago:
a very fit man in his late 50s died while out cycling on Dartmoor.

While exercise reduces your overall mortality, during exercise you are
at significantly increased risk compared to the general population,
especially if there is underlying coronary disease (which exercise
reduces but does not banish). Jim Fixx, who popularised jogging, was a
classic example. There is also some evidence that long term endurance
exercise may itself cause cardiac problems (although I doubt RC was in
that category)
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=28577

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

in message <[email hidden]>, James

Annan (') said:

Nick Kew said:

Tony Raven said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking. He was described as a keen
walker and cyclist - something I never knew.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127654.stm

ObTopic: why do fit people of that age die while engaging in healthy
exercise? We[1] had a shock death here just a couple of weeks ago:
a very fit man in his late 50s died while out cycling on Dartmoor.

I was wondering the same thing. I do not doubt the general advice that
exercise will increase life span (and physical independence into old
age etc) but it is obviously not a completely one-dimensional issue.

I'm actually not terribly bothered about increasing life span - when I
die I die, and if it happens suddenly while I'm doing something I enjoy,
that seems to me greatly preferable to it happening after days or weeks
of pain in a hospital bed. As far as I'm concerned, Robin Cook (whom I
knew quite well thirty years ago - he used to hold his surgeries in my
then office) is one of the lucky ones.

What I really want to avoid is losing my independence. I want to be able
to live in my own home and cook my own meals right up to the end.
Remaining physically fit enough to do that seems to me very important.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for Robin Cook, his resignation speech and subsequent criticism
of his former godfather (is that an appropriate term?) earned him
some serious respect.

How much better the world would be if it was the likes of Bush who
dropped dead at an early age, rather than Cook (and eg John Smith a
decade ago, another supposedly healthy hill-walker IIRC).

As it happens I also vaguely knew John Smith. I respected both men,
although politically I opposed them. The declaration of an 'ethical
foreign policy', even though in the end Cook couldn't impose it on the
arms traders and the realpolitik of Blair's relationship with the
American right, was for me one of the most courageous and positive
political moments of the past fifty years. Robin was a flawed man, as
are we all; but if he had been prime minister (or even been allowed to
do his job as Foreign Minister) the world would be a better place (and
the same, I think, is true of Smith).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

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Nick Kew said:

Tony Raven said:

Robin Cook MP today while out walking. He was described as a keen
walker and cyclist - something I never knew.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127654.stm

ObTopic: why do fit people of that age die while engaging in healthy
exercise? We[1] had a shock death here just a couple of weeks ago:
a very fit man in his late 50s died while out cycling on Dartmoor.

Fitness isn't the same as health, and a lot of very fit people aren't
necessarily healthy.

Daniele
--
Apple Juice www.apple-juice.co.uk
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road
Cardiff CF5 1QE

D.M. Procida said:

Fitness isn't the same as health, and a lot of very fit people aren't
necessarily healthy.

Care to expand on that a little?

--
jc

Remove the -not from email

Jeremy Collins said:

Quoted message said:

Fitness isn't the same as health, and a lot of very fit people aren't
necessarily healthy.

Care to expand on that a little?

Look at the number of sports people who die young, and suddenly, or how
much they suffer for damage to their bodies. Some of these causes might
be natural and organic, but others will have roots in unnatural
treatments or practices (drugs, intensive training). Some female
atheletes stop menstruating. People whose bodies are stressed to their
physical limits might wel be going faster, higher and further than the
rest of us, but it's not a recipe for good health.

If you want to bring more non-physical aspects of health into the
picture it looks even worse for the ultra-fit.

Daniele
--
Apple Juice www.apple-juice.co.uk
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road
Cardiff CF5 1QE

Jeremy Collins said:

D.M. Procida said:

Fitness isn't the same as health, and a lot of very fit people aren't
necessarily healthy.

Care to expand on that a little?

http://www.halhigdon.com/Articles/Fixx.htm

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:43:23 +0100 someone who may be Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The declaration of an 'ethical foreign policy',

ISTR a 'foreign policy with an ethical dimension', which is rather
different to what was reported.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:41:25 +0100 someone who may be Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

While exercise reduces your overall mortality,

Exercise may increase the length of one's life, but does nothing for
one's mortality.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

D.M. Procida said:

Jeremy Collins said:

Quoted message said:

Fitness isn't the same as health, and a lot of very fit people aren't
necessarily healthy.

Care to expand on that a little?

Look at the number of sports people

Any sport at a level that gets you noticed is gross abuse of the body.
Not at all the same as maintaining the general level of fitness of a
regular cyclist and/or hillwalker.

--
Nick Kew

Nick Kew said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Fitness isn't the same as health, and a lot of very fit people aren't
>necessarily healthy.

Care to expand on that a little?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Look at the number of sports people

Any sport at a level that gets you noticed is gross abuse of the body.
Not at all the same as maintaining the general level of fitness of a
regular cyclist and/or hillwalker.

Sure, top sports people are at an extreme. But the point still stands
that fitness and health are not the same thing at all, even though they
enjoy a close and tangled relationship.

Daniele
--
Apple Juice www.apple-juice.co.uk
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road
Cardiff CF5 1QE

David Hansen said:

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:41:25 +0100 someone who may be Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

While exercise reduces your overall mortality,

Exercise may increase the length of one's life, but does nothing for
one's mortality.

You display your anti-medicine leanings. In medical terms mortality is
how likely the patient is to die before the consultants round in the
morning..

Otherwise you are correct as lives are not 'saved' merely extended.

...d

in message <[email hidden]>, David Hansen

(') said:

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:43:23 +0100 someone who may be Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The declaration of an 'ethical foreign policy',

ISTR a 'foreign policy with an ethical dimension', which is rather
different to what was reported.

Yup, but what I understood him to have meant was less arms trading, and
less support for regimes (e.g. Uzbekistan
<URL:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3743052.stm>😉 with tyrannical
regimes and less than spotless human rights records. I believe him to
have been sincere in this, and that's why I'm sorry he was not permitted
to carry it out. What he thought of 'extraordinary rendition' I cannot
imagine.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

... a mild, inoffensive sadist...