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shattered balls

Started by Geraint Jones · · Last activity · 11 posts · 380 views

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UK and Europe
Published
2 July 2004
Last activity
4 July 2004
Original author
Geraint Jones
Posts
11
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  1. The lady with whom I now share a set of bicycle tools heard a loud
    crack from her bottom bracket - no, from her bicycle's bottom bracket
    yesterday morning on the way into work, and on finding the bb rather
    loose and clunky decided not to ride the bike much before we could
    have a good look at it. We stripped down the bb last night and found
    eleven bright shiny balls in reasonably clean grease on the accessible
    side.

    However in the fixed cup there were what seemed to be ten and two
    half balls in black gunge, with only the smaller half ball at all
    shiny. There were also many sharp fragments here and there in the
    grease, which puzzled me, because there didn't seem to be enough
    missing balls to go around. Fortunately the bearing surfaces seemed
    OK and we cleaned everything up and put two new sets of bright and
    shiny balls in with bright and shiny clean grease and all is fine.

    Later closer inspection revealed that most of the apparently whole
    balls in the ground-up bearing were distinctly conical, which accounts
    both for the blackness of the gunge and large number of fragments
    of ball. Since the only shiny surface remaining in that set was
    that of what (appealing to what I can remember of O-level geometry)
    I suppose you might call a spherical cap that had apparently come
    off one of the balls, I presume that that was the first failure
    and that everything else followed.

    I am inclined to suspect that this is "something that happened" as
    an essentially random failure of a single badly manufactured ball,
    however I wondered whether anyone had any supportable theories to
    the contrary. What can cause this sort of failure? Presumably if
    there was hard enough grit in there when it was last assembled (by
    an LBS... mutter) it wouldn't do it any good. Can you cause this
    sort of failure by having assembled the bearing too tightly? Is it
    caused by not wearing a helmet?

    I've never seen such badly damaged ball bearings before. The worst
    I'm used to is a bit of pitting in bearings that someone has run dry
    for a while. No names, no pack-drill.

    My O-level maths teacher would have a fit if he were still alive to
    catch me saying "smaller half".

  2. On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:08:27 +0000 (UTC),
    [email hidden] (Geraint

    Jones) said:

    in the fixed cup there were what seemed to be ten and two
    half balls in black gunge, with only the smaller half ball at all
    shiny.

    Yep, been there, done that. In my case it was the result of the
    ingress of a surprisingly small amount of water into what had, until
    then, been a carefully maintained bearing.

    I replaced the balls but they broke up agian, on closer inspection the
    races were damaged. So I went to a UN52, which fell apart almost
    immediately, and finally a UN72, which is OK so far.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  3. Geraint Jones said:

    The lady with whom I now share a set of bicycle tools

    [stull]

    What a perfectly /splendid/ expression!

    --

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================

  4. Geraint Jones wrote:
    /snip

    Quoted message said:

    However in the fixed cup there were what seemed to be ten and two
    half balls in black gunge, with only the smaller half ball at all
    shiny. There were also many sharp fragments here and there in the
    grease, which puzzled me, because there didn't seem to be enough
    missing balls to go around. Fortunately the bearing surfaces seemed
    OK and we cleaned everything up and put two new sets of bright and
    shiny balls in with bright and shiny clean grease and all is fine.

    Later closer inspection revealed that most of the apparently whole
    balls in the ground-up bearing were distinctly conical, which accounts
    both for the blackness of the gunge and large number of fragments
    of ball. Since the only shiny surface remaining in that set was
    that of what (appealing to what I can remember of O-level geometry)
    I suppose you might call a spherical cap that had apparently come
    off one of the balls, I presume that that was the first failure
    and that everything else followed.............

    A lack of grease then water getting in can eventually result in mashed
    bearings. The ball retainers ("clips" or "cages"😉, if the BB uses them,
    can also disintegrate and cause further damage. Perhaps that's what the
    sharp fragments were.

    I don't know about conical balls, though.

    ~PB

  5. "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ( A lack of grease then water getting in can eventually result in mashed
    ) bearings. The ball retainers ("clips" or "cages"😉, if the BB uses them,
    ( can also disintegrate and cause further damage. Perhaps that's what the
    ) sharp fragments were.

    There was plenty of grease, and there was nothing "eventually" about the
    failure.

    This is a relatively new bike, and it did start out with caged balls as
    almost all new bikes (without sealed bearings) seem to. Mind you, those
    were in such a state (dry, pitted, ...) when the bike was new that they
    were replaced long before the cages could get caught up in anything and
    cause more damage than they were ever worth. Almost the first thing we
    did to the bike was to replace those with free range balls rotating in
    their own grease as the Good Lord intended.

    ( I don't know about conical balls, though.

    On a cloth untrue, with a twisted cue, and elliptical billiard balls.

  6. Geraint Jones said:

    There was plenty of grease, and there was nothing "eventually" about
    the failure.

    * Grease can become emusified with water, which can cause rapid damage.

    * Wrong or unevenly size balls? Poor grade or mixture of grades?

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as too tightly). Cup
    & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of pre-load to spread the load evenly
    over the balls. So much so that the spindle should actually feel rough
    when turned by hand.
    See http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.8.html

    ~PB

  7. Sorry to be flippant, but is this a windup about an interesting relationship
    wit a lady?
    Regards,
    Geoff
    "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Geraint Jones said:

    There was plenty of grease, and there was nothing "eventually" about
    the failure.

    * Grease can become emusified with water, which can cause rapid damage.

    * Wrong or unevenly size balls? Poor grade or mixture of grades?

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as too tightly). Cup
    & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of pre-load to spread the load evenly
    over the balls. So much so that the spindle should actually feel rough
    when turned by hand.
    See http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.8.html

    ~PB

  8. Pete Biggs said:

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as too tightly). Cup
    & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of pre-load to spread the load evenly
    over the balls. So much so that the spindle should actually feel rough
    when turned by hand.
    See http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.8.html

    Careful. It shouldn't feel rough, and nowhere does that article say that it
    should. The increase in drag described should be smooth, and feels a little
    like the drag from a rubber seal - which is one reason it's difficult to
    adjust a bearing correctly with its seals in place. Adjusting a good
    quality bearing until it feels rough is a quick way to kill it. Roughness
    is a sign of contamination, damaged bearings, poor manufacture, or excess
    preload.

    James Thomson

  9. James Thomson said:
    Pete Biggs said:

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as too tightly).
    Cup & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of pre-load to spread the load
    evenly over the balls. So much so that the spindle should actually
    feel rough when turned by hand.
    See http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.8.html

    Careful. It shouldn't feel rough, and nowhere does that article say
    that it should. The increase in drag described should be smooth, and
    feels a little like the drag from a rubber seal - which is one reason
    it's difficult to adjust a bearing correctly with its seals in place.
    Adjusting a good quality bearing until it feels rough is a quick way
    to kill it. Roughness is a sign of contamination, damaged bearings,
    poor manufacture, or excess preload.

    Even brand new best-grade bearing balls are not perfectly smooth and I was
    under the impression that bottom brackets should be adjusted with enough
    preload that this roughness can actually be felt when lightly turned with
    fingers.

    I seem to remember reading that on rec.bicycles.tech in reply to someone
    complaining about a BB not feeling perfectly smooth -- I thought written
    by Jobst Brandt but I can't find the message via Google Groups now.
    Perhaps I've got it all wrong. Fortunately, I use cartridge BB's nowdays.

    It lodged in the brain because I readjusted my own BB with a bit more
    preload after reading it. Don't know if it helped or hindered because I
    upgraded the BB shortly afterwards anyway.

    ~PB

  10. Pete Biggs said:

    Even brand new best-grade bearing balls are not perfectly smooth

    Of course not. Nothing is perfectly smooth.

    Quoted message said:

    and I was under the impression that bottom brackets should
    be adjusted with enough preload that this roughness can actually
    be felt when lightly turned with fingers.

    The problem with that prescription is that it suggests far higher preloads
    for better quality bearings, since very cheap bearings sometimes can't be
    adjusted for zero play without at least some perceptible roughness, while
    very well made ones will become stiffer and stiffer with increasing preload
    without becoming perceptibly rough.

    Quoted message said:

    I seem to remember reading that on rec.bicycles.tech in reply to someone
    complaining about a BB not feeling perfectly smooth -- I thought written
    by Jobst Brandt but I can't find the message via Google Groups now.
    Perhaps I've got it all wrong. Fortunately, I use cartridge BB's
    nowdays.

    Cartridge bottom brackets are usually assembled with a small amount of
    preload (they would quickly develop play if they weren't), but better ones
    don't feel rough.

    James Thomson

  11. In message <[email hidden]>

    James Thomson said:
    Pete Biggs said:

    Even brand new best-grade bearing balls are not perfectly smooth

    Of course not. Nothing is perfectly smooth.

    Except a cashmere codpiece!

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:



    Gwyn

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