sf critical mass - oh dear!

"Dan Gregory" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/04/BAGF7P12RN23.DTL

It's obviously all from the motorist's point of view but it's suspicious
that the victim decided not to stay and give details so the driver could
have been prosecuted if she had hit him.

Unfortunately that one incident will give all cyclists in that area a bad
reputation for a good while.
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

"Dan Gregory" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/04/BAGF7P12RN23.DTL

I'm inclined to take this with a pinch of salt.

Listening regularly to John Winston's Bikescape podcast, there's a small but
perfectly formed battle going on in SF at the moment between car users and
cyclists. This has resulted in an injunction being brought against the city
council preventing any spending on cycle facilities whatsoever until a full
environmental impact study has been carried out. Needless to say it was
pro-car lobbyists that brought the injunction.

There's a propaganda battle going on and it's not ver pretty.

Tim
--
Sent from Birmingham, UK... Check out www.nervouscyclist.org
'I find sometimes it's easy to be myself, but sometimes I find it's
better to be somebody else.' - Dave Matthews 'So Much To Say'
My 'reply to' address is valid, mail to the posting address is dumped

Tim Dunne said:

Listening regularly to John Winston's Bikescape podcast, there's a small but
perfectly formed battle going on in SF at the moment between car users and
cyclists. This has resulted in an injunction being brought against the city
council preventing any spending on cycle facilities whatsoever until a full
environmental impact study has been carried out. Needless to say it was
pro-car lobbyists that brought the injunction.

Damn, can we get one of those injunctions over here? 🙂

Regards,

-david

"David Nutter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Damn, can we get one of those injunctions over here? 🙂

I get your point, but they're talking about stuff like improving Octavia
Boulevard
http://bikescape.blogspot.com/2007/01/this-right-is-wrong-cars-and-bikes-in.html
which has been a real problem - we're talking about a way different culture
there. These guys can't even put a bike rack in right now.

Check out Bikescape at http://bikescape.blogspot.com/ for some intelligent,
interesting stuff about urban cycling in SF, it's great stuff, and quite an
eye opener.

Tim

--
Sent from Birmingham, UK... Check out www.nervouscyclist.org
'I find sometimes it’s easy to be myself, but sometimes I find it’s
better to be somebody else.' - Dave Matthews 'So Much To Say'
My 'reply to' address is valid, mail to the posting address is dumped

Tim Dunne said:

"David Nutter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Damn, can we get one of those injunctions over here? 🙂

I get your point, but they're talking about stuff like improving Octavia
Boulevard
http://bikescape.blogspot.com/2007/01/this-right-is-wrong-cars-and-bikes-i
n.html which has been a real problem - we're talking about a way different
culture there. These guys can't even put a bike rack in right now.

Check out Bikescape at http://bikescape.blogspot.com/ for some intelligent,
interesting stuff about urban cycling in SF, it's great stuff, and quite an
eye opener.

Tim

does sound like a bit of battle ground polticaly.

but unless the the "facts" are dramticly disproven, its something of a
pr set back. and something that taking such a aggressive stance is
allways a danger of causeing. ie fringe elements and such.

roger

"Roger Merriman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

does sound like a bit of battle ground polticaly.

It seems pretty bad at the moment.

Quoted message said:

but unless the the "facts" are dramticly disproven, its something of a
pr set back. and something that taking such a aggressive stance is
allways a danger of causeing. ie fringe elements and such.

I don't know. There's lots of other bad PR in the other direction, the ghost
bike project, the cyclists who've been killed. The main problem seems to be
at the moment that they've got a pro-cycling mayor who's rubbing the
petrolheads up the wrong way.

I have no idea of the circumstances of what happened, and that report looks
quite skewed. All I do know is that it's going to take more than a passing
woodcutter to sort it all out, and it makes our tribulations in the UK look
quite tame...

Tim

--
Sent from Birmingham, UK... Check out www.nervouscyclist.org
'I find sometimes it’s easy to be myself, but sometimes I find it’s
better to be somebody else.' - Dave Matthews 'So Much To Say'
My 'reply to' address is valid, mail to the posting address is dumped

Den 2007-04-04 21:33:25 skrev naked_draughtsman
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately that one incident will give all cyclists in that area a bad
reputation for a good while.

Intelligent people understand that one incident does not reflect on the
majority.

I think the "ambassador" approach to bicycle manners is ridiculous. It's
nothing more than the rage of the inarticulate anti-cyclist.

And for some reason it's only cyclists who are expected to behave as
infallible ambassadors.

Erik Sandblom

--
Oil is for sissies

Dan Gregory said:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/04/BAGF7P12R...

Press release from SFBC <http://www.sfbike.org/download/press/
CriticalMass.SFBC.pdf>.

--
Dave...

Tim Dunne said:

"Roger Merriman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

does sound like a bit of battle ground polticaly.

It seems pretty bad at the moment.

Quoted message said:

but unless the the "facts" are dramticly disproven, its something of a
pr set back. and something that taking such a aggressive stance is
allways a danger of causeing. ie fringe elements and such.

I don't know. There's lots of other bad PR in the other direction, the ghost
bike project, the cyclists who've been killed. The main problem seems to be
at the moment that they've got a pro-cycling mayor who's rubbing the
petrolheads up the wrong way.

unless i've missed something these have been accidents, how ever bad as
in death. while the van with a family apears to have attacked.

Quoted message said:

I have no idea of the circumstances of what happened, and that report looks
quite skewed. All I do know is that it's going to take more than a passing
woodcutter to sort it all out, and it makes our tribulations in the UK look
quite tame...

Tim

it does seem to make it look tame here!

roger

Erik Sandblom said:

Den 2007-04-04 21:33:25 skrev naked_draughtsman
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately that one incident will give all cyclists in that area a bad
reputation for a good while.

Intelligent people understand that one incident does not reflect on the
majority.

I think the "ambassador" approach to bicycle manners is ridiculous. It's
nothing more than the rage of the inarticulate anti-cyclist.

And for some reason it's only cyclists who are expected to behave as
infallible ambassadors.

Erik Sandblom

i don't think they are nessarly, for one thing if your intrested in a
group you tend to hear all the chatter about it, good or bad.

the other point is living on the edge of london, i see more redlight
jumping by bikes than any thing else. so in that regard i can see where
the "you thing laws don't apply" line comes from. it not suprsingly gets
worse the further in you go.

roger

Tim Dunne said:

I'm inclined to take this with a pinch of salt.

Listening regularly to John Winston's Bikescape podcast,

Thanks for plugging my podcast! (I followed your link back here)

My friend Jym collected statements made by witnesses and compiled
these facts:

* This did not happen at Critical Mass. The incident occurred
at 9:00 pm, after Critical Mass had dispersed. There were
at most 30 bicyclists, not 3000.

* The _Chronicle_ spun a tale in which the motorist "inched"
into the bicyclists. Eyewitnesses report that the motorist
was in fact speeding, swerving, and laying on the horn.

* The _Chronicle_ said that the motorists "tapped" a bicycle
wheel (later amending this to "allegedly bumped" before
settling on "inadvertently tapped"😉. Eyewitnesses say that
the motorist hit a bicyclist with enough force to thrown
him from his bike, and then ran over the bike.

* The bicyclist was hurt, but refused an ambulance.

* The motorist attempted to flee the scene, which is why
bicyclists blocked her way.

* One bicyclist broke the motorist's back window, and then
fled the scene. "This appears to be the only egregious
act by the cyclists."

* Most bicyclists had no idea there were children in the
vehicle, which has tinted windows.

* The _Chronicle_ cites the motorist's "presence of mind"
to call 911 on her cellphone. Perhaps she did, but it
was a bicyclist who called 911 to report a hit and run.

* When police arrived, they immediately began threatening
the bicyclists. The Sergeant in charge made a false
accusation of drunkenness against the bicyclist who called
911 and told her to leave the scene. He refused to take
her statement.

* The Sergeant also refused the injured bicyclist's request
for a police report, saying he could only do so if the
bicyclist requested an ambulance.

See also the SFBC press release atop this page:
http://www.sfbike.org/

Quoted message said:

Tim Dunne said:

I'm inclined to take this with a pinch of salt.

Listening regularly to John Winston's Bikescape podcast,

Thanks for plugging my podcast! (I followed your link back here)

My friend Jym collected statements made by witnesses and compiled
these facts:

Thanks for this! It makes the SF media sound hysterical and irresponsible.

Quoted message said:

* Most bicyclists had no idea there were children in the
vehicle, which has tinted windows.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2007/04/04/BAGLRP2LEI8.DTL&o=0

Yup, they look tinted to me too. No comment on the family portrait(!)

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Thanks for plugging my podcast! (I followed your link back here)

I listen to your podcast avidly, as I have been for over a year. I'm very
interested in cycling issues from around the world and yours is one of the
few podcasts apart from The Bike Show on Resonance FM (on which I heard your
recent interview) and Portlands' KBOO which isn't obsessed with tech and
sport, but focuses on the fun and culture of urban cycling.

Say, John, have you considered taking part in 'The Spokesmen'? You'd provide
some worthwhile balance to the roadie chatter...

For anyone else reading, podcasts are a great way of getting cycling views
from all round the world, and you don't need an ipod. I listen to the
following on a regular basis:

Bikescape Just check it out!
The Fredcast Techy, but fun
The Spokesmen Worth it for Carlton Reid alone
KBOO bike show Monthy US NPR radio show
The Bike Show Ubiquitous london radio program
Bike tourist podcast Excellent touring interviews

Tim
--
Sent from Birmingham, UK... Check out www.nervouscyclist.org
'I find sometimes it's easy to be myself, but sometimes I find it's
better to be somebody else.' - Dave Matthews 'So Much To Say'
My 'reply to' address is valid, mail to the posting address is dumped

Actually a rather more balanced offering than that offered by the
Chronicle on TV!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6556644913687801720

My "oh dear" was intended to point out the over the top reporting
All the best
Dan Gregory