Severe morning pain

Tom Archer said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely walk.
After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first thing
in the morning. Any ideas?

This is (at least) Achilles Tendinitis.

See a (sports) physio.

I had this for 24 months and wondered if I would ever run again.

In the end I got new running shoes appropriate to my neutral foot type (the
shoes I had were for an overpronator). I also changed my work footwear as
someone speculated they could be contributing to the problem.

I also layed of running for a month (did a lot of X-training).

Be careful as you could tear your Achilles completely if you push too hard.

Quoted message said:

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

IMHO this sort of mileage should not cause a problem.

Good luck,
Brad

Tom Archer said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely walk.
After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first thing
in the morning. Any ideas?

Quoted message said:

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

Sounds like plantar fasciitis. Do a web search for it.
Here's one link:

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/987116429.html

Brad Hubbard said:

This is (at least) Achilles Tendinitis.

I should probably have mentioned that I speak from my own experiences and
it's my opinion only.

IOW, don't just blindly follow my advice.

Cheers,
Brad

Quoted message said:

Sounds like plantar fasciitis. Do a web search for it.

Why does he need to search for it? He just told you it was on his ankle.

Quoted message said:

See a (sports) physio.

Why? Below you say:

Quoted message said:

In the end I got new running shoes appropriate to my neutral foot type

So all he needs are new shoes, and some good advice.
I've repeatedly extolled the virtues of new shoes, or shoes of a different type
for these problems. Sorry folks, there is no great mystery here. You can spend
far less buying a few pairs of new shoes than you probably would on a PT.

I had the exact same problem! I had to back off my running (not stop,
just run less), as little as it was, until my feet got used to the
pounding of the pavement. I also added some walking breaks into my
run so that my feet got a little rest. I also fashioned some spints
out of angle brackets that I wore while sleeping, and I felt better in
the morning when using them. I only had to wear them for a couple of
weeks. I also got a couple of massages.

I originally had thought the problem was my shoes, but it wasn't. I
am now running even further in the same shoes with no problems. All I
needed was some additional time for my body to adjust to running. Cut
back for a month to the level you were running at when you didn't have
this problem, and then try it again.

Good luck!

Jenn

"Tom Archer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<TQSZc.24674$_g7.8055@attbi_s52>...

Quoted message said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely walk.
After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first thing
in the morning. Any ideas?

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

TheBillRodgerz said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like plantar fasciitis. Do a web search for it.

Quoted message said:

Why does he need to search for it? He just told you it was on his ankle.

To see if it's plantar fasciitis. His *severe* morning pain
that subsides as the day progresses sounds like symptoms of PF.

Needless to say, all this info is not meant to provide a complete
diagnosis, but it's only to help him in understanding his condition
more. Maybe he should see the doctor if needed.

You dumbass, it was a joke.

Tom,

Do not walk barefoot. Get a pair of slippers with a good sturdy heel and
put them on when you get up. This will allow your Achilles to gradually
lengthen as you walk around.

Bob
"Tom Archer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:TQSZc.24674$_g7.8055@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely walk.
After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first thing
in the morning. Any ideas?

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

Oh man 🙁 I sure hope this is not the case as I'm finally getting into shape
(25 lbs & 7" lost in 13 weeks) and running is an important part of that.
I'll definitely heed your advice and seek out a sports dr.

Thanks
Tom

"Brad Hubbard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Archer said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely

walk.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first

thing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the morning. Any ideas?

This is (at least) Achilles Tendinitis.

See a (sports) physio.

I had this for 24 months and wondered if I would ever run again.

In the end I got new running shoes appropriate to my neutral foot type

(the

Quoted message said:

shoes I had were for an overpronator). I also changed my work footwear as
someone speculated they could be contributing to the problem.

I also layed of running for a month (did a lot of X-training).

Be careful as you could tear your Achilles completely if you push too

hard.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

IMHO this sort of mileage should not cause a problem.

Good luck,
Brad

I understand, but the key issue is that it *could* be something serious so
I'll definitely get it checked out.

"Brad Hubbard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Brad Hubbard said:

This is (at least) Achilles Tendinitis.

I should probably have mentioned that I speak from my own experiences and
it's my opinion only.

IOW, don't just blindly follow my advice.

Cheers,
Brad

How does one go about finding the right shoes without being an expert on
running? I certainly don't trust the guy at the foot locker (or similar
store) as it's in his/her best interest to just sell me the most expensive
shoes.

"TheBillRodgerz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

See a (sports) physio.

Why? Below you say:

Quoted message said:

In the end I got new running shoes appropriate to my neutral foot type

So all he needs are new shoes, and some good advice.
I've repeatedly extolled the virtues of new shoes, or shoes of a different

type

Quoted message said:

for these problems. Sorry folks, there is no great mystery here. You can

spend

Quoted message said:

far less buying a few pairs of new shoes than you probably would on a PT.

Thanks Bill. I'm definitely off to see a podiatrist or sports dr.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TheBillRodgerz said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like plantar fasciitis. Do a web search for it.

Quoted message said:

Why does he need to search for it? He just told you it was on his ankle.

To see if it's plantar fasciitis. His *severe* morning pain
that subsides as the day progresses sounds like symptoms of PF.

Needless to say, all this info is not meant to provide a complete
diagnosis, but it's only to help him in understanding his condition
more. Maybe he should see the doctor if needed.

Thanks Jenn. My wife is saying that I'm trying to go too far, too fast.
Maybe she's right - again 🙂

"Jenn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had the exact same problem! I had to back off my running (not stop,
just run less), as little as it was, until my feet got used to the
pounding of the pavement. I also added some walking breaks into my
run so that my feet got a little rest. I also fashioned some spints
out of angle brackets that I wore while sleeping, and I felt better in
the morning when using them. I only had to wear them for a couple of
weeks. I also got a couple of massages.

I originally had thought the problem was my shoes, but it wasn't. I
am now running even further in the same shoes with no problems. All I
needed was some additional time for my body to adjust to running. Cut
back for a month to the level you were running at when you didn't have
this problem, and then try it again.

Good luck!

Jenn

"Tom Archer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<TQSZc.24674$_g7.8055@attbi_s52>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely

walk.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first

thing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the morning. Any ideas?

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

LOL! Yep. I do that all day long despite having about 10 pairs of shoes.

Thanks for the advice!
Tom

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom,

Do not walk barefoot. Get a pair of slippers with a good sturdy heel and
put them on when you get up. This will allow your Achilles to gradually
lengthen as you walk around.

Bob
"Tom Archer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:TQSZc.24674$_g7.8055@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely

walk.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first

thing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the morning. Any ideas?

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

Quoted message said:

Thanks Bill.

You're welcome, why I have no idea, but that's ok with me.

Quoted message said:

How does one go about finding the right shoes without being an expert on
running?

Ask.

Quoted message said:

I certainly don't trust the guy at the foot locker (or similar
store) as it's in his/her best interest to just sell me the most expensive
shoes.

Why? They get paid the same either way. It's in their best interest to sell you
a pair of shoes that'll work for you, so you'll be happy and return. Find a
running shop if you don't trust Foot Locker (I'm lucky to have a good,
knowledgeable person at my local FL, but apparently that's an exception. The
wear on the bottom of your old shoes will tell them what type you need, if they
don't know this find another store. Just DO NOT buy nikes! Then you'll be
buying overpriced junk.

Go to a specialized running shoe store.

And, BTW, I have bought shoes at mall stores -- and some of the best were
also some of the least expensive. The clerk was very nice, & didn't pressure
me, & wanted me to feel comfortable in the shoes. He didn't object when I
rejected certain expensive ones as not right for my feet. Best to go at less
crowded hours, though.
bj

"Tom Archer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:LU8_c.113806$Fg5.5706@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

How does one go about finding the right shoes without being an expert on
running? I certainly don't trust the guy at the foot locker (or similar
store) as it's in his/her best interest to just sell me the most expensive
shoes.

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

In article TQSZc.24674$_g7.8055@attbi_s52 said:

When I first wake up, my heels and achilles hurt so bad I can barely walk.
After about 15 minutes, I'm fine, but it's absolutely horrible first thing
in the morning. Any ideas?

I run 5k 3x per week on paved streets.

Tom,

Check out http://mindfulness/of1.asp

A post from a while back:

The irritation of the Achilles Tendon is a symptom that something else is
letting go. More often than not, it's the calf muscle that needs some
loving attention.

Knowing About & Caring for Your Friend, The Achilles Tendon
c.2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.

Asensenig wrote:

I'm training for the Country Music Marathon in Nashville on April 29th
and have developed a case of "mild" achilles tendonitis in my right leg.
The pain is a dull ache right behind the ankle/just above the heel. My
training for the marathon has been on schedule with long runs every
other weeked, (the last one 20 miles) one interval session or tempo run
per week, etc. (I'm a 47 year old male, 6 feet, 200lbs, wear Gel Kayano's
with orthotics. This is my fifth marathon. I average about 35 miles a week
and stretch before and after each run.)

Quoted message said:

My questions is, how can I nurse this achilles tendon along for the next six
weeks and still do what is necessary for the race? Any help, whether from
personal experience with a similar problem or knowledge of this type of
injury
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks is advance for your response.

I'd look to the calves be it soleus or the gastrocs to find the trigger
point(s) where the calf is holding and causing the semi-relaxation of the
calf so that the part of the calf that can't let go transmits the tension to
the Achilles.

The other thing I'd look to, is to see, if the shins on the right leg are
tight which would mean that the right calf has to work against a
semi-contracted antagonist muscle. So even if you loosen up the right calf
the right shin is still causing the problem for the right calf.

Then again since as you and I have talked about off and on, the tightness in
the left quad or hamstring might be affecting the planting of the right foot
which results in the calf problem being a result of the left leg...or
tightness in the right illiopsoas.

I went through the same diagnosis with my left calf early in '99. Ended up
it was the fact that I was carrying an overweight rip stop nylon briefcase
in my left hand. The excess weight tightened up my left shoulder. I also
realized that when I was sitting at the computer, the chair I used which has
arms, I would lean on my left elbow. The left elbow callous was the first
dead giveaway. Looking in the mirror when going for my monthly body work
session showed the lean to the left of my whole upper body.

Some further thoughts:

1. Is the soleus more slow than fast twitch? In my mind slow twitch muscles
as mentioned are stabilizer or postural muscles. My reason for thinking that
soleus is more fast twitch???

2.I want the soleus to be strong and elongated. The problem often is that it
is strong and semicontracted because of a portion of it bundled/adhesioned
(i.e. the fascia around a section is holding and not allowing that portion
of the soleus to go through its range of motion. So when you stretch the
soleus, you stretch the portion that can stretch and not the portion bundled
up with the adhering fascia...causing the good muscle fibers to overstretch
and gradually join the bundle that can only partially let go.

3. Remember the Achilles is tendon. Tendon is white and grisly which means
there is minimal blood flow to that area. One reason tendonitis
(inflammation of the tendon) doesn't heal quickly...lack of adequate blood
flow...as one sees in red oxygen enriched muscle tissue.

4. Yes on the massage of the soleus once the trauma has subsided

5. One reason for icing muscles is that the cold constricts the vessels and
then once the cold is stopped rich oxygenated blood flows back in to flush
the area with its healing nutrients.

6. I have some question in my mind about strengthening the calves...if it
means that they are strong but shortened.

7. There's always the question in my mind about doing the heels off the step
so that the calves are put under a extreme strain. If the knot in the muscle
doesn't get stretched the tension is passed along the healthy muscle fiber
and then onto the minimally blood fed tendons.

8. Also there is what is called the kinetic chain concerning the movements
we make as various muscles fire in a certain pattern. Putting the calf under
strain by the heels off the step, the slant boards, etc. might cause more
problems then they solve, if the exerciser is doing the exercise and not
thinking about the way the muscles fire in sequence to create movement.

9. It's not what you know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know that
just ain't so. If you're not thinking nor paying attention to your thinking
body which knows how to move when you don't think about it, then you are
creating your own injuries and blaming it on something else.

And finally a web site talking about: It's the Calves Not the Achilles:

Check out http://mindfulness/of1.asp

You'll see how I use a railing to do the rolling from side to side all the
way up and down the calf. Physical Therapists call it Transverse
Friction...i.e. rubbing across the muscles in the area where it is knotted.

Remember the inflammation of the Achilles tendons is often caused by the
calves not letting go. That's why I would have some reservations about the
calf raises. Calf raises would only shorten the calf muscles even more. We
want elongated and strong, not shortened and strong calf muscles.

Also tightness in the shins can also cause the calves to tighten
unnecessarily. The front shin muscles should be relaxing maximally when the
calf is contracting. . If the shin muscles can relax fully the calves have
to work against muscles that cannot fully relax. When the shins are tight
the calves have to work against a semi-contracted muscle.