Setmana-Catalana isn't Redlands

MagillaGorilla said:

Final general classification

1 Alberto Contador (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team

17.15.58

Quoted message said:

2 David Bernabeu (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana

0.36

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3 Peio Arreitunandia (Spa) Team Barloworld-Valsir

0.39

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4 Tom Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team

1.00

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5 Koldo Gil (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team

1.03

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<snip>

16 Chris Horner (USA) Saunier Duval-Prodir

4.16

Monkey boy,

My god, you're right. They have different names, they are staged in
different counties, and are contested by different riders. Thanks for
clearing up the confusion!!

Your pal,
Ed

To be fair, that's not exactly indicative of his week. He had a couple
top tens earlier, and, if I recall the Velonews spin, one near win
(whatever that means).

Andrew

On 03/25/2005 06:06 PM, in article [email hidden],

MagillaGorilla said:

I'm only going to acknowledge pros winning big races. The rest simply
don't matter despite all you barebacks thinking it does.

Just so we know, which races count? Obviously, being in the ProTour doesn't
count, based on comments made about Paris-Nice.

And we all know that the Giro and Vuelta don't count, because one is just a
warm-up to the Tour, whereas the other is a consolation prize.

I just want to know for sure, so I can tune out and only come back when it
really matters.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

Everybody knows there's only one race that matters - and it cost me my
life.
-lln

Steven L. Sheffield said:

On 03/25/2005 06:06 PM, in article [email hidden],

MagillaGorilla said:

I'm only going to acknowledge pros winning big races. The rest

simply

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

don't matter despite all you barebacks thinking it does.

Just so we know, which races count? Obviously, being in the ProTour

doesn't

Quoted message said:

count, based on comments made about Paris-Nice.

And we all know that the Giro and Vuelta don't count, because one is

just a

Quoted message said:

warm-up to the Tour, whereas the other is a consolation prize.

I just want to know for sure, so I can tune out and only come back

when it

Quoted message said:

really matters.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

MagillaGorilla said:

Steven L. Sheffield said:

Just so we know, which races count? Obviously, being in the

ProTour doesn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

count, based on comments made about Paris-Nice.

I just want to know for sure, so I can tune out and only come back

when it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really matters.

No problem, Steven. Here's how it works. I'll let you know when
winning a race matters.

Okay you frothy faced race fans. Here we go again. I'm going to
supplement the Gorilla's teachings here and drop a little more
knowledge on you so you can impress your Assos wearing chums on the
group ride tomorrow:

95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes. No
one is sitting around spunking all over the race bible to see where
they are going to launch their winning move. They simply show up to
the race, clock in, race their bike and clock out. It's a job - simple
as that. I know this disappoints you but they care far less than you
do.

You also need to know that these guys don't have "training programs"
like Charmichael's clones give you for $250 a month. They use these
races as training. They don't sit around staring at their SRMs either.
If they have them they were preinstalled on the bike and they have no
clue what all those crazy numbers mean. In bike racing you're either
twiddling along, going hard, or going really hard. Simple as that. As
much as these coaches want to convince you otherwise this ain't rocket
science. The pros know it. [censored]-chinned fatties will never
understand.
-DA74, waiting for my $250 from you

DA74 said:

95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.

So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
percent of Euro races. So, by your own description, you don't do real
races but glorified training rides, right? So help me out here....since
you only do races that don't matter, does that you you a pro, or a
soon-to-be fattie master in denial?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DA74 said:

95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.

So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
percent of Euro races. So, by your own description, you don't do real
races but glorified training rides, right? So help me out here....since
you only do races that don't matter, does that you you a pro, or a
soon-to-be fattie master in denial?

Not to mention that there are only about 20, some might say less, riders in
the Tour with their primary focus on gc placings. Hell some teams go into it
knowing they don't have a gc contender.

Doesn't say much for your view of the sport in a positive way, does it?

Quoted message said:

DA74 said:

95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.

So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
percent of Euro races. So, by your own description, you don't do real
races but glorified training rides, right? So help me out here....since
you only do races that don't matter, does that you you a pro, or a
soon-to-be fattie master in denial?

Dear CBS employee who posts to RBR on company time,

Those are quality US races - everyone who shows up is there to win with
few exceptions (i.e. Vino and Pink at San Fran). Not even Lance could
win any of them unless he brought his A game.

Those races are important in the US and to US sponsors.

Thanks,

Magilla

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Dear CBS employee who posts to RBR on company time,

With maturity comes discretion and more freedom.

Quoted message said:

Those are quality US races - everyone who shows up is there to win with
few exceptions (i.e. Vino and Pink at San Fran). Not even Lance could
win any of them unless he brought his A game.

LOL

Quoted message said:

Those races are important in the US and to US sponsors.

So 95% of the Euro races don't matter, but all the big US races do 'cuz you
show up at the start line?

DA74 said:

95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes. No
one is sitting around spunking all over the race bible to see where
they are going to launch their winning move. They simply show up to
the race, clock in, race their bike and clock out. It's a job - simple
as that. I know this disappoints you but they care far less than you
do.

This is not believable. Only a very well established rider could afford
to focus on just the top 5% of the races. Someone who's never won at the
pro level will want that win badly where ever they can get it. Someone
not assured of making their team's TDF or Giro roster will be motivated
to show that they're worthy. The teams need to rack up race wins and the
exposure that goes with it for their sponsors. They also need to win to
gain entry at the top races. There's a wide variety of motivations
involved and more than enough to make the 2nd tier races interesting. A
win is a win and the more of them the better the better.

Bret

Carl Sundquist said:

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Dear CBS employee who posts to RBR on company time,

With maturity comes discretion and more freedom.

Quoted message said:

Those are quality US races - everyone who shows up is there to win with
few exceptions (i.e. Vino and Pink at San Fran). Not even Lance could
win any of them unless he brought his A game.

LOL

Quoted message said:

Those races are important in the US and to US sponsors.

So 95% of the Euro races don't matter, but all the big US races do 'cuz you
show up at the start line?

Carl,

There's only like 5 or 6 US races that matter. The rest are just a time
clock stamps. Yes, they are better than 95% of the Euro races.

Magilla

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

This is not believable. Only a very well established rider could afford
to focus on just the top 5% of the races. Someone who's never won at the
pro level will want that win badly where ever they can get it. Someone
not assured of making their team's TDF or Giro roster will be motivated
to show that they're worthy. The teams need to rack up race wins and the
exposure that goes with it for their sponsors. They also need to win to
gain entry at the top races. There's a wide variety of motivations
involved and more than enough to make the 2nd tier races interesting. A
win is a win and the more of them the better the better.

Bret

No Bret, DA74 must be right. Look at the graph.

http://netscan.research.microsoft.com/reportcard.asp?timespan=y&searchdate=2004&NGID=26901&searchfor=rec.bicycles.racing

Quoted message said:

DA74 said:

95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.

So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
percent of Euro races.

CBS Gopher & Fellow Posters,
I'm feeling charitable so we'll go on to lesson two. I was very clear
and precise when I said "Euro races". The US domestic scene
essentially exists in a vacuum so comparing the two is impossible,
futile and in the end just another excuse for the fatties to stop
during the Sunday group ride and chat for half and hour under the guise
of filling up water bottles.

In the heirarchy of Pro Cycling, Europe is and will always be the mecca
with the US being next, but nothing more than a breeding ground and
red-headed step-child, followed a long way down by Australia. If
you're really spunked out about racing and need to go deeper you could
argue for Central / South America and then Japan. If you really really
need a comparison, I think even Subway would dominate in Japan but they
certainly don't have the hematocrit or inclination to compete with the
C/S American contingent.

All that aside, on the US scene the non-industry sponsors want to see
you sell the farm for TdG, USPRO and SFGP and maybe a couple others.
that's why those races are so crazy hard. But that's it. The sponsors
don't even know where you are for the rest of the year. You could
party with Decanio and the fashionista in Florida all year as long as
you show up to the biggies. Industry sponsors want you at
everything...hell, they'll slap up results from the Tuesday night crits
if you let them.

Bret Wade said:

DA74 said:

95% of Euro races don't matter.

Quoted message said:

This is not believable. Only a very well established rider could

afford

Quoted message said:

to focus on just the top 5% of the races. Someone who's never won at

the

Quoted message said:

pro level will want that win badly where ever they can get it.

Someone

Quoted message said:

not assured of making their team's TDF or Giro roster will be

motivated

Quoted message said:

to show that they're worthy.

Bret,
You're green, possibly fat but more likely a budding, [censored]-faced race
fan...and you haven't earned my ire yet so here's a free pass - listen
up.

First of all you need to remember that cycling is a team sport. It's
not like everyone on a team is a GC man. Most are workers. When I say
that, I'm serious, they're like Detroit autoworkers clocking in at the
plant in Flint or wherever. The Lances and the Jans are the CEOs and
board of directors. They don't even hang out. Hell, some of the
grunts don't even talk to the big dogs (or actually it's the other way
around).

You see how I said 95% of the Euro races are training races? Well 90%
of the peloton also know they don't have the talent to win - so most of
the time they don't even try - which is not to say they won't get
lucky. They'll try really hard to chase down breaks and get a bunch of
water bottles to make themselves valuable to management and the riders
that matter. They do their jobs - and their jobs have nothing to do
with crossing the line first or tenth for that matter.

For some riders crossing the finish line means they didn't work hard
enough early in the race to chase down breaks. That's how slots are
filled for the show. And, if you paid attention, I did say that the
teams would like to win and will or course try, but it's not that big
of a deal for a lot of these insignificant races.

"DA74" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1111894654.267159.150530
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

I'm feeling charitable so we'll go on to lesson two. I was very clear
and precise when I said "Euro races". The US domestic scene
essentially exists in a vacuum so comparing the two is impossible,

Uh, dude, I know that [censored]. Everything you said was spot on. So, once again,
if, on the grand scale of things US racing ain't [censored], why do you expect us
to be all impressed with your "Pro"ness? You expect me to be impressed with
your participating in races that don't even measure up to many you accuse of
glorified traing rides? You were the one bragging on the [censored]....bragging on
doing some training ride, and expecting people to be impressed....wow. If
that doesn't sound like fattie masterdom, I don't know what does.

Tim Mullin said:

"DA74" <[email hidden]> wrote in

news:1111894654.267159.150530

Quoted message said:

So, once again, if, on the grand scale of things US racing
ain't [censored],

Timbo,
US racing is something - Since your intellect cannot deal with mutual
exclusivity I will step outside its bounds to assist you. Our top US
races rate above many of the Euro "training races" I was referring to.
It's very difficult to compare so take that with a grain of salt. I
didn't say all Euro races rate above US races, they are just very
difficult to compare.

In the US, 50% of the jagoffs at the start line think they can win.
The top three teams know this and have to ride differently. In Europe
most everyone know their place so they don't have to deal with this
[censored]. They let the early break go, reel it in later and the real
racing begins.

Quoted message said:

why do you expect us to be all impressed with your "Pro"ness?

You shouldn't be impressed with any "pro". It's a ridiculous
designation here. In the US most are just glorified cat ones. Go back
and read the posts - Papai-hole is trying to track me down so I gave
him a couple hints to help him along.

Now go back to gulping down that malt liquor and smacking your
girlfriend.

"DA74" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1111898161.696856.224490
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

In the US most are just glorified cat ones.

Yourself included I guess?

Quoted message said:

Now go back to gulping down that malt liquor and smacking your
girlfriend.

Wrong on both counts. It's Diet Pepsi, and your mom. She says, "Hi," by the
way, and wants to know when you're going to move out of the basement. It's
not that she has plans for it, she just wants you to stop pretending you're a
pro an get a real job.

"DA74" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In the US, 50% of the jagoffs at the start line think they can win.
The top three teams know this and have to ride differently. In Europe
most everyone know their place so they don't have to deal with this
[censored]. They let the early break go, reel it in later and the real
racing begins.

This is the essence of the difference between pro and amateur racing. No
sarcasm intended.

Carl Sundquist said:

Quoted message said:

"DA74" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
In the US, 50% of the jagoffs at the start line think they can win.

This is the essence of the difference between pro and amateur racing.

No

Quoted message said:

sarcasm intended.

Enlightenment attained. In Europe there is a distinct difference, here
there they are as enjoined as Chang & Eng. My work is done here. Thank
you Carl.
-Seacrest. Out.