servicing a screw-on freewheel

davek said:

My freewheel is making funny grinding and clanking noises.
And it's squeaking. It also seems to have a bit of lateral
movement - if I hold the cogs I can waggle it side to side
slightly - is this normal or cause for concern?

Some play is normal as the bearings are crudely adjusted
with shims. Grinding and clanking isn't normal though.

I know at very least I want to get it off and clean it
up but I'm

Quoted message said:

not really sure where to begin.

Removing it is the first hurdle - I think I need a special
freewheel remover tool, right?

Once I've got it off, how should I go about cleaning the
thing? What bits need lubrication? What type of
lubrication do they need? Is it what they call a 'user
serviceable part' or is this job best left to a mechanic?

Or does it need to be chucked and replaced? I think I'd
rather avoid this option because the cogs are a bit worn
but not badly enough to need replacing - I think I need a
new chain sooner rather than later, but on the whole the
drivetrain is looking in reasonable shape. It's just these
funny noises that are bothering me. And they're not even
all that funny.

Just put the wheel on its side and drizzle *light* oil into
the gap between the stationary bit and the moving bits.
Keep turning the freewheel as the oil flows out the other
side (have a rag to catch it all). This should flush out
all the mess. Don't use any kind of oil that might go gungy
over time as it could make the pawls stick and then you'll
have no drive.

There is no point in dismantling the average freewheel. It's
a fiddly job fraught with pitfalls (the bearings, pawls and
springs are tiny) and they are normally cheap to replace. I
did once strip and reassemble one as an intellectual
exercise, but that's the only reason to do it.

davek said:

My freewheel is making funny grinding and clanking noises.
And it's squeaking. It also seems to have a bit of lateral
movement - if I hold the cogs I can waggle it side to side
slightly - is this normal or cause for concern? I know at
very least I want to get it off and clean it up but I'm
not really sure where to begin.

Removing it is the first hurdle - I think I need a special
freewheel remover tool, right?

Yes, and you'll need the *correct* tool - and there are
several kinds from ones with several splines to those with
just two pegs. Even then they also come in differing sizes
so make sure you get the right one. That means taking your
wheel to a LBS which will then mean you could always ask
them to remove it for you.

If you do decide to do it yourself,attach the remover tool,
make sure its seated firmly and place it in a vice. turn the
wheel and the freewheel block should unscrew. If you don't
have a vice you will need a long spanner - or at least one
you can put a section of pipe on to get enough leverage to
unscrew the freewheel.

Quoted message said:

Once I've got it off, how should I go about cleaning the
thing? What bits need lubrication? What type of
lubrication do they need? Is it what they call a 'user
serviceable part' or is this job best left to a mechanic?

I've always just soaked them in gunk, scrubbed them with a
brush then used a light oil. It has always seemed to work.
don't worry too much about the lateral movement unless it is
excessive.

I have taken a freewheel apart a few times but be prepared
for a very difficult job. Small ball bearings and springs
(pawls) will fly everywhere and they are not easy to replace
once removed, even if you can retrieve all the bits from the
kitchen floor and under the fridge.

Quoted message said:

Or does it need to be chucked and replaced? I think I'd
rather avoid this option because the cogs are a bit worn
but not badly enough to need replacing - I think I need a
new chain sooner rather than later,

Personally I think it would be worth buying a new one,
especially as you say you will soon need a new chain. It is
always best to replace freewheel and chain at the same time.
Chances are that even if you do fix your freewheel, when you
get a new chain it will sound even graunchier than it does
now as it will be running on worn teeth.

HTH

John B

Zog The Undeniable:

Quoted message said:

Some play is normal as the bearings are crudely adjusted
with shims. Grinding and clanking isn't normal though.

Good. That more or less matches up with what I was hoping.

Quoted message said:

Just put the wheel on its side and drizzle *light*
oil into the gap between the stationary bit and the
moving bits.

That sounds easy enough. I'll give it a go and see
what happens.

Quoted message said:

I did once strip and reassemble one as an intellectual
exercise, but that's the only reason to do it.

Sounds like the kind of intellectual exercise I frequently
get myself involved in... It took me ages to get my centre-
pull brake calipers back together when I took them apart.
Those springs are bloody tight. Never again...

Ta for the advice,

d.

JohnB:

Quoted message said:

That means taking your wheel to a LBS which will then mean
you could always ask them to remove it for you.

Yeah, I could do that - I'd need to get the tool off them
anyway. But I'm always a bit dubious about asking for advice
on these things from my LBS because their knowledge seems to
be good on some things and pretty poor on others.

Quoted message said:

I've always just soaked them in gunk, scrubbed them with a
brush then used a light oil.

Gunk? Is that a technical term?

Quoted message said:

don't worry too much about the lateral movement unless it
is excessive.

That's two votes for don't worry about it, so I feel
reassured.

Quoted message said:

Personally I think it would be worth buying a new one,
especially as you say you will soon need a new chain. It
is always best to replace freewheel and chain at the
same time.

Hmm, yes, I can see that, but to be honest, the main reason
I'm reluctant to do it is that I'm debating with myself the
cost of a new wheel with cassette hub, so I'm not sure if it
would be worth the cost of replacing the freewheel - money's
a bit tight so I need to weigh these things up. I only
haven't bought a new chain sooner because I don't want to
waste a new chain on an old cluster...

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that keeping an old bike
running rather than buying a new one is a false economy...
unfortunately, I don't think my wife sees it that way.

d.

davek said:

JohnB:

Quoted message said:

That means taking your wheel to a LBS which will then
mean you could always ask them to remove it for you.

Yeah, I could do that - I'd need to get the tool off them
anyway. But I'm always a bit dubious about asking for
advice on these things from my LBS because their knowledge
seems to be good on some things and pretty poor on others.

An average LBS should be good with freewheels, because
they're old technology!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've always just soaked them in gunk, scrubbed them with
a brush then used a light oil.

Gunk? Is that a technical term?

Brand name. They make engine cleaner and probably
other products.

~PB

Zog The Undeniable said:

Just put the wheel on its side and drizzle *light*
oil into the gap between the stationary bit and the
moving bits.

Drizzle? You can only drizzle extra virgin olive oil. You
are Jamie Oliver and I claim my five pounds.

--
Roger.

Reply to davek

Quoted message said:

Gunk? Is that a technical term?

gunk.comgunk.comOpen ↗

The most common meaning of unqualified "Gunk" is probably
their cleaner/degreaser. My father was apprenticed to an
engineering works in Belfast before the war; he once told me
that while there, he only ever heard it referred to as
fsckingGunk - a neutral term, not intended to imply any
criticism.

--
Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

"....... I'm debating with myself the cost of a new wheel
with cassette hub, so I'm not sure if it would be worth the
cost of replacing the freewheel"

new wheel with "cassette" hub is likely to be new wheel
with non-fitting hub (ie wider). of course, you could
get your frame adjusted but if your hubs and rims are in
good condition (sealed bearings, for example, seem to
last for ever)the new freewheel and chain will be the
much cheaper option

don't leave it though. i once had a freewheel fall to bits
on the road. i was on a long fastish descent and was amazed
to see a stream of little bearings fly out ahead of me.
still can't work out how they got in front.

Quoted message said:

gunk.comgunk.comOpen ↗

By Jove, you learn something new every day.

d.

Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:409bf968.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

davek said:

My freewheel is making funny grinding and clanking
noises. And it's squeaking. It also seems to have a bit
of lateral movement - if I hold

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cogs I can waggle it side to side slightly - is this
normal or cause for concern?

Some play is normal as the bearings are crudely adjusted
with shims.

There is no reason why shims cannot do as good a job of
adjusting clearance as the nut-locknut method. "Crudely" is
in-appropriate here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or does it need to be chucked and replaced?

Not at all. Especially if it is an old-fashioned freewheel,
with 5 cogs; they are much thicker and wear more slowly. The
new-fangled six, seven, and higher number-of-cogs rear
clusters are a bad idea for durability and reliability. They
sell, though, because the average cyclist is impressed by
salemens' fluff.

Get a good 5-speed freewheel, a source of replacement
cogs, a sensible double or triple up front, a good axle
and a bit of shifting practice and you'll never miss any
of the supposed advantages and real flaws of "modern"
derailleur gearing.

Quoted message said:

don't leave it though. i once had a freewheel fall to bits
on the road. i was on a long fastish descent and was
amazed to see a stream of little bearings fly out ahead of
me. still can't work out how they got in front.

I bet if you ask your lbs they will fit a new one for less
than £20 plus a chain(which you need pay no more than £7 for
on the web if you prefer. They can be a swine to get off and
you will have to pay for a remover to discover that.Last one
I had cost me £14 fitted.

terryJ

Martian:

Quoted message said:

new wheel with "cassette" hub is likely to be new wheel with non-fitting hub (ie wider).

Yes - fortunately I've already been tipped off about this one and so I measured my dropouts. Apparently, they are already wide enough to take a cassette hub. Handy, that.

Quoted message said:

if your hubs and rims are in good condition

The hub is in decent enough condition since I serviced it, though the cones have a 'polished' bearing track. However, it's a cheapo wheel and the steel rim has spots of rust. It also weighs a ton, which is another factor in the argument for replacing it.

Quoted message said:

don't leave it though. i once had a freewheel fall to bits on the road.

Nasty.

I think you're right - replacing the freewheel would be the best (read: cheapest) short-term option but there are several good reasons why I eventually want to change to 700C wheels - decent 27" rims seem to cost around a third more than equivalent quality 700C rims. And you just can't get good narrow road bike tyres for a 27" wheel, not for love nor money.

d.

Jtaylor:

Quoted message said:

Not at all. Especially if it is an old-fashioned freewheel, with 5 cogs; they are much thicker and wear more slowly.

Maybe, but I've not had this wheel all that long - only a year or so, in fact. But it was a very cheap wheel, probably made with very cheap components.

Quoted message said:

The new-fangled six, seven, and higher number-of-cogs rear clusters are a bad idea for durability and reliability. They

sell, though, because the average cyclist is impressed by salemens' fluff.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I do find that with only five sprockets the gaps between the gears are quite significant - admittedly, I never found this to be a problem before but since I have started taking my cycling more seriously I have quite often found myself wanting extra gears to fill in the spaces. I suppose I could look for a five speed freewheel with closer spacing, but then I'd definitely need to be looking at a triple chainring.

Of course, this is a typically modern dilemma - I know very well that people managed to complete early Tours de France on single-speed machines.

Quoted message said:

Get a good 5-speed freewheel, a source of replacement cogs

Eh? I thought with screw-on freewheels the cogs were built in to the freewheel and you had to replace the whole caboodle.

Quoted message said:

you'll never miss any of the supposed advantages and real flaws of "modern"

derailleur gearing.

I have to say that I have no inclination to "upgrade' my downtube-mounted friction shifters - although I can imagine that if I did go for a cassette hub with more gears I might change my mind about that, what with the finer shifting increments involved.

d.

martian said:

don't leave it though. i once had a freewheel fall to bits
on the road. i was on a long fastish descent and was
amazed to see a stream of little bearings fly out ahead of
me. still can't work out how they got in front.

My esteemed mother has a story about once having to
reassemble a disintegrated freewheel (including collecting
the balls from a fair area of gravel, although you can run a
freewheel without balls in in a pinch; it will graunch a bit
when you coast, but work fine when you push...) half way up
the Stelvio. And still beating a soon-to-be first-cat
roadman to the top, of course.

RH

Roger Hughes said:

My esteemed mother has a story about once having to
reassemble a disintegrated freewheel (including collecting
the balls from a fair area of gravel, although you can run
a freewheel without balls in in a pinch; it will graunch a
bit when you coast, but work fine when you push...) half
way up the Stelvio. And still beating a soon-to-be first-
cat roadman to the top, of course.

Wow! Cool mother!

Simonb said:

Roger Hughes said:

My esteemed mother has a story about once having to
reassemble a disintegrated freewheel (including
collecting the balls from a fair area of gravel,
although you can run a freewheel without balls in in a
pinch; it will graunch a bit when you coast, but work
fine when you push...) half way up the Stelvio. And
still beating a soon-to-be first-cat roadman to the top,
of course.

Wow! Cool mother!

I want to know who the roadman was ;-)

John B

davek said:

Eh? I thought with screw-on freewheels the cogs were built
in to the freewheel and you had to replace the whole
caboodle.

The sprockets /are/ separate but liberating them from the
body can be an exercise debilitating enough to make one sell
one's soul to Stan in exchange for a new one. The old Sachs
/ Maillard ones were very easy to pull apart, though.

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

JohnB said:

Simonb said:

Roger Hughes said:

My esteemed mother has a story about once having to
reassemble a disintegrated freewheel (including
collecting the balls from a fair area of gravel, although
you can run a freewheel without balls in in a pinch; it
will graunch a bit when you coast, but work fine when you
push...) half way up the Stelvio. And still beating a soon-to-
be first-cat roadman to the top, of course.

Wow! Cool mother!

I want to know who the roadman was ;-)

Forgotten his name; it was a 15 years or so back. And he
was suffering from stomach problems and inappropriate
gearing, I think...

RH