selenium, can there be too much?

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote
There was a question posed here about the wisdom of what amount of
selenium to consider. This research suggests that too many antiox effects
of selenium may be a risk factor for diabetes:
news.cornell.eduselenium.diabetes.ssl.htmlOpen ↗

.. High selenium intake also inhibits chromium and zinc,
which doesn't help individuals with hyperglycemic risks.

I am underwhelmed. The title doesn't represent the content
of the article the best I can tell from the release. The
rodents were making at least 3 time the glutathione
peroxidase than normal. One has to wonder what other more
subtle defects resulted from the genetic tampering in the
rodents. This doesn't seem to an excess of selenium alone
rather it an excess of glutathione peroxidase. Without a
lucid in-depth discussion of the biochemical mechanism, I
will have serious doubts. Has this been published in a peer
reviewed journal? Not that peer review means all that much.
I find it interesting that DM in selenosis ( from industrial
exposure) this is NOT one of the risk of selenium excess.
Nor does the report state the dose of selenium. This is bad
reporting, the press is just taking a handout and publishing
it. And the anecdote concerning the patient smacks of bias
combined with a several cases of gestational DM which isn't
that uncommon. Correlation doesn't prove causation very
especially in small sample sizes.

There are regions in China were people consume far more
than 70 mcg, 200 mcg, or 300 mcg rather they get over a
milligram as memory serves and as I recall diabetes wasn't
mentioned as problem Indeed, I don't recall the Chinese
finding a problem.

Finally, selenium has already been reported to lower the
risk of prostate cancer in several studies.

''The dose make the poison"...............
...............William A. Noyes

<[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
net.com...

Quoted message said:

There was a question posed here about the wisdom of what
amount of selenium to consider. This research suggests
that too many antiox effects of selenium may be a risk
factor for diabetes:

news.cornell.eduselenium.diabOpen ↗
etes.ssl.html

"William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am underwhelmed. The title doesn't represent the content
of the article the best I can tell from the release. The
rodents were making at least 3 time the glutathione
peroxidase than normal. One has to wonder what other more
subtle defects resulted from the genetic tampering in the
rodents. This doesn't seem to an excess of selenium alone
rather it an excess of glutathione peroxidase.

Indeed. Those are not interchangeable concepts.

Quoted message said:

Without a lucid in-depth discussion of the biochemical
mechanism, I will have serious doubts. Has this been
published in a peer reviewed journal? Not that peer review
means all that much. I find it interesting that DM in
selenosis ( from industrial exposure) this is NOT one of
the risk of selenium excess.

Correct.

Quoted message said:

Nor does the report state the dose of selenium.

It doesn't appear to have been a manipulated variable.

Quoted message said:

This is bad reporting, the press is just taking a
handout and publishing it. And the anecdote concerning
the patient smacks of bias combined with a several
cases of gestational DM which isn't that uncommon.
Correlation doesn't prove causation very especially in
small sample sizes.

Again, though, the correlation is with an enzyme
concentration, not selenium.

Quoted message said:

There are regions in China were people consume far more
than 70 mcg, 200 mcg, or 300 mcg rather they get over a
milligram as memory serves

That is correct. In fact, the UL and LOAEL data for selenium
all arise from observations of that population. What was
noted was that if they could get the intake down to about
800 mcg/day, the adverse health effects of selenium
mitigated. It may be relevant also, though, that the study
population was coming at that threshold from above (i.e.
they were previously saturated with the mineral).

Quoted message said:

and as I recall diabetes wasn't mentioned as problem
Indeed, I don't recall the Chinese finding a problem.

There were symptoms of selenosis, but DM is not one of them.

Quoted message said:

Finally, selenium has already been reported to lower the
risk of prostate cancer in several studies.

''The dose make the poison"...............
...............William A. Noyes

Indeed. It also elevates the mood.

Lar

"Larry Hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am underwhelmed. The title doesn't represent the
content of the article the best I can tell from the
release. The rodents were making at least 3 time the
glutathione peroxidase than normal. One has to wonder
what other more subtle defects resulted from the genetic
tampering in the rodents. This doesn't seem to an excess
of selenium alone rather it an excess of glutathione
peroxidase.

Indeed. Those are not interchangeable concepts.

Quoted message said:

Without a lucid in-depth discussion of the biochemical
mechanism, I will have serious doubts. Has this been
published in a peer reviewed journal? Not that peer
review means all that much. I find it interesting that
DM in selenosis ( from industrial exposure) this is NOT
one of the risk of selenium excess.

Correct.

Quoted message said:

Nor does the report state the dose of selenium.

It doesn't appear to have been a manipulated variable.

Quoted message said:

This is bad reporting, the press is just taking a
handout and publishing it. And the anecdote concerning
the patient smacks of bias combined with a several cases
of gestational DM which isn't that uncommon. Correlation
doesn't prove causation very especially in small sample
sizes.

Again, though, the correlation is with an enzyme
concentration, not selenium.

Quoted message said:

There are regions in China were people consume far more
than 70 mcg, 200 mcg, or 300 mcg rather they get over a
milligram as memory serves

That is correct. In fact, the UL and LOAEL data for
selenium all arise

from

Quoted message said:

observations of that population. What was noted was that
if they could get the intake down to about 800 mcg/day,
the adverse health effects of

selenium

Quoted message said:

mitigated. It may be relevant also, though, that the study
population was coming at that threshold from above (i.e.
they were previously saturated with the mineral).

Quoted message said:

and as I recall diabetes wasn't mentioned as problem
Indeed, I don't recall the Chinese finding a problem.

There were symptoms of selenosis, but DM is not one
of them.

Quoted message said:

Finally, selenium has already been reported to lower the
risk of prostate cancer in several studies.

''The dose make the poison"...............
...............William A. Noyes

Indeed. It also elevates the mood.

Lar

Thanks Larry. I suppose I need to hunt the related
literature on China ansd Selenium and get them on hard disk
both my computer's and my "own".

William A. Noyes

"William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks Larry. I suppose I need to hunt the related
literature on China ansd Selenium and get them on hard
disk both my computer's and my "own".

William A. Noyes

If I recall correctly, it's all spelled out in detail in
this review at the National Academies Press:
books.nap.edu284.htmlOpen ↗

There are many relevant abstracts available on Pubmed.

All the NAP books are available for reading on-line. They
are a wonderful resource. I have Favourite that links me to
a search for the term "tolerable daily intake", and it
brings up the books which cover the gamut of minerals and
vitamins. Beside each book description is a button "Read
free online".

lab.nap.edunapOpen ↗
cgi/discover.cgi?term=tolerable%20daily%20intake&restric=NAP

Lar