Second Class Facilities for Cyclists

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

...
As an example, one of the local bike paths has a chicane effect at
road crossings. You go off the path down a ramp to the road, cross
the one lane of traffic to the middle of the road, then there's a big
lump of concrete in the middle of the road. It has an entrance for
the bike, you go 90deg left then you have a couple of feet more than a
bike length, then you have a 90deg right to exit and cross the other
side of the road....

The above has no business being called a bicycle path.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

I remember reading somewhere about that being a engineering feature
(non-cyclists obviously) where they force you to slow down at traffic
crossing points, in order to minimize accidents occurring. Other features
are lots of curves and twists in the path to prevent someone from riding
along at a fast pace. The intention being to keep everyone below 10 mph or
some such speed. Thus cyclists are less of a hazard to pedestrians,
strollers, runners and joggers.
There were some other "fun" features but I forget what they are at the
moment.
So they did that on purpose.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

...
As an example, one of the local bike paths has a chicane effect at
road crossings. You go off the path down a ramp to the road, cross
the one lane of traffic to the middle of the road, then there's a big
lump of concrete in the middle of the road. It has an entrance for
the bike, you go 90deg left then you have a couple of feet more than a
bike length, then you have a 90deg right to exit and cross the other
side of the road....

The above has no business being called a bicycle path.

It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
both directions at once (e.g., heavy traffic with 3 lanes in each
direction, but with traffic signals causing gaps in the flow of
traffic).

It may look silly on a weekend and pretty useful during rush hour
traffic if it at least lets you get across the street without waiting
five minutes to find a gap.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Bill Z. said:

It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
both directions at once

The solution for this situation is to get off the bike and become a
pedestrian. Peds have a supreme right of way that cannot be usurped by
impatient cagers. Peds with an established ROW only have to yield to
emergency vehicles. If the traffic is so heavy that no one will stop
and I can't get a gap after waiting a while then I will start to inch
my way into the crosswalk until they have to stop to avoid hitting me.
This is provided that there is a normal intersection with a crosswalk
(marked or unmarked) and not a special MUP intersection which is left
in a legal gray zone.

Cemeteries are full of pedestrians who had the right of way.

"amakyonin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bill Z. said:

It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
both directions at once

The solution for this situation is to get off the bike and become a
pedestrian. Peds have a supreme right of way that cannot be usurped by
impatient cagers. Peds with an established ROW only have to yield to
emergency vehicles. If the traffic is so heavy that no one will stop
and I can't get a gap after waiting a while then I will start to inch
my way into the crosswalk until they have to stop to avoid hitting me.
This is provided that there is a normal intersection with a crosswalk
(marked or unmarked) and not a special MUP intersection which is left
in a legal gray zone.

amakyonin said:

Bill Z. said:

It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
both directions at once

The solution for this situation is to get off the bike and become a
pedestrian.

.... irrelevant - the issue was what I presume to be a divider or
island in the center of the road, without enough width for a bike to
fit perpendicular to the street and that is not dependent on whether
you are riding the bike or walking it across.

It is sometimes much easier to cross each direction of traffic
independently, waiting for gaps at a center divider, than to have to
find a gap in both directions large enough for you to get all the way
across - and that is even more of an issue if you walk the bike
because the gap you need is longer due to needing more time to cross
the street as a pedestrian.

Finally, the ramps to get onto the divider may be used by bikes, but
they can also be required for ADA compliance (i.e., wheelchair
access).

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Tue, 12 Sep 2006 02:34:32 GMT

Bill Z. said:

It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
both directions at once (e.g., heavy traffic with 3 lanes in each
direction, but with traffic signals causing gaps in the flow of
traffic).

I think it's more about space for bikes to wait, given that the paths
are used a hell of a lot by recreational riders with dodgy traffic
skills. The roads aren't heavily trafficked really, and only one lane
each way. It might also be to make riders stop, wait, and look,
rather than barrel out of the path and trust to God.

I was mistaken about the length, I said "a bike length and a couple of
feet" but I think it's more like about 2 bike lengths. So there's
room for a couple of people to wait.

Experienced cyclists find them annoying and bypass them if possible.

Did give me the opportunity to learn low speed tight turns though.
Now, if I can only get that damn bridge over the river right! U
shaped bridge with a 180 deg turn at entrance and exit. I think one
side is just too short for the bent to make it round, but I think I
can do the other with more practice.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone said:

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Tue, 12 Sep 2006 02:34:32 GMT

Bill Z. said:

It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
both directions at once (e.g., heavy traffic with 3 lanes in each
direction, but with traffic signals causing gaps in the flow of
traffic).

I think it's more about space for bikes to wait, given that the paths
are used a hell of a lot by recreational riders with dodgy traffic
skills. The roads aren't heavily trafficked really, and only one lane
each way. It might also be to make riders stop, wait, and look,
rather than barrel out of the path and trust to God.

I think we are talking about different situations. Something in the
center of the road is useful when traffic is so heavy that it is
hard to find a safe gap to cross the street at once. If you can
go half way, you can find a gap in each direction of traffic
independently. That is only important when traffic is fairly heavy
such as during commute hours. If you use the road at a different
time of the day, you may find it all rather pointless.

Quoted message said:

I was mistaken about the length, I said "a bike length and a couple of
feet" but I think it's more like about 2 bike lengths. So there's
room for a couple of people to wait.

Experienced cyclists find them annoying and bypass them if possible.

Well, I wouldn't find them annoying for the situation described above,
which is a special case. We have a few paths in town that have some
sharp turns to get people to stop at a road crossing, but in this case
it is not unreasonable - the path has heavy vegetation on the sides
and the road is narrow, making it easy to not notice that you are
approaching a roadway. In addition, the path is used by children
going to school and without something to slow then down, they would
just go as fast as they could and shoot out into the intersection,
thinking very light traffic means non-existent traffic (in fact, the
curves were put in after people complained that the kids were shooting
out of the path and ending up in front of their cars).

Also, I once road along a path connecting my town to an adjacent one,
mostly to see where it went. At our end, there was a stop sign, which
also served to warn you that you were approaching a road. In the
neighboring town, there was nothing. The path curved a lot and I
ended up having to do a fairly quick stop to avoid shooting out into a
cross street. With all the vegetation on the sides of the path, it
was difficult to tell that one was approaching a roadway, and the path
and roadway were the same color with no sidewalk.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB