Screw VDB and Euro justice

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov30news
He flat out refuses to cooperate with the investigation. Refuses to name

his

Quoted message said:

suppliers and the law enforcement(?) types he screws over say that's OK do

some

Quoted message said:

communtiy service and keep racing. What a complete clusterfuck of a

situation.

Quoted message said:

I think Tonya Harding and Co. should move to Belgium and start a business
kneecapping riders for a price. Hell, with that kind of law enforcement

they

Quoted message said:

should have a hell of a bottom line.
Bill C
Lafferty's right! Legalise it all and [censored] the consequences!

Does this mean you are converting to Laffertyism? Lets wait till Lance
retires first since he is the only one who is clean.

B-

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov30news
He flat out refuses to cooperate with the investigation. Refuses to name

his

Quoted message said:

suppliers and the law enforcement(?) types he screws over say that's OK
do

some

Quoted message said:

communtiy service and keep racing. What a complete clusterfuck of a

situation.

Quoted message said:

I think Tonya Harding and Co. should move to Belgium and start a business
kneecapping riders for a price. Hell, with that kind of law enforcement

they

Quoted message said:

should have a hell of a bottom line.
Bill C
Lafferty's right! Legalise it all and [censored] the consequences!

Does this mean you are converting to Laffertyism? Lets wait till Lance
retires first since he is the only one who is clean.

B-

I think Bill forgot to take his meds. It happens to all of once in a while.
;-)

[email hidden] (TritonRider) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov30news
He flat out refuses to cooperate with the investigation. Refuses to name his
suppliers and the law enforcement(?) types he screws over say that's OK do some
communtiy service and keep racing. What a complete clusterfuck of a situation.
I think Tonya Harding and Co. should move to Belgium and start a business
kneecapping riders for a price. Hell, with that kind of law enforcement they
should have a hell of a bottom line.
Bill C
Lafferty's right! Legalise it all and [censored] the consequences!

You have to read the article correctly (and make sure you understand
it). VDB has already been suspended for 6 months. He will be the
first rider who has to appear for a civil court (for possessing drugs
without a prescription) after being punished by the national Cycling
association first. So don't say he isn't punished enough cause no
other rider caught doping was treated in the same way as VDB.

Kenny (says that VDB will not reach the age of 35)

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (TritonRider) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov30news
He flat out refuses to cooperate with the investigation. Refuses to name
his
suppliers and the law enforcement(?) types he screws over say that's OK
do some
communtiy service and keep racing. What a complete clusterfuck of a
situation.
I think Tonya Harding and Co. should move to Belgium and start a business
kneecapping riders for a price. Hell, with that kind of law enforcement
they
should have a hell of a bottom line.
Bill C
Lafferty's right! Legalise it all and [censored] the consequences!

You have to read the article correctly (and make sure you understand
it). VDB has already been suspended for 6 months. He will be the
first rider who has to appear for a civil court (for possessing drugs
without a prescription) after being punished by the national Cycling
association first. So don't say he isn't punished enough cause no
other rider caught doping was treated in the same way as VDB.

Kenny (says that VDB will not reach the age of 35)

Last evening I went to one of the web sites for VDB linked to CyclingNews.
There were lots of photos of him at a late season race with him riding for
his new team. In all of the photos, he look quite sad--depressed looking.
Not even the hint of a smile in any of the photos. I'm afraid your
prediction may come true.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov30news

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lafferty's right! Legalise it all and [censored] the consequences!

But, but........Hein says that the peloton is 95% clean. And when asked
whether cycling has a drug problem, Tyler blew the BBC's question off and
told us how beautiful the sport is (and it is!). So there can't be a major
problem, Bill

Seriously, I'm really conflicted about whether to legalize it or not. The
latest tales of heart attacks, possibly induced by use of hgh, and other
dangerous practices without any acknowledgment by the sport that widows and
orphans are being created, sickens me. I'm just happy that I live in the
USA--home of the free (minor exceptions apply); land of the natural athlete;
led in innocence by the examples of Lance and Tyler. How do I know that
drugs in USA cycling are not a problem, you ask? Why in 25 years of racing
at the very minor grassroots level, I've never seen a drug test
administered. So there must not be a problem. ;-)

Quoted message said:

From: "B. Lafferty" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kenny (says that VDB will not reach the age of 35)

Last evening I went to one of the web sites for VDB linked to CyclingNews.
There were lots of photos of him at a late season race with him riding for
his new team. In all of the photos, he look quite sad--depressed looking.
Not even the hint of a smile in any of the photos. I'm afraid your
prediction may come true.

I really do feel sorry for VDB. He has some serious health issues but it still
pisses me off that he gets off with a tiny racing suspension which probably did
him good by giving him time to get treatment, but they are hounding Lance for
being mean to Simeoni.
It's just the [censored] adding up that's pissing me off. You've got Moninger who
was actually able to give them at least some tainted supplement. The decision
was "You took it, that's on you." His whole case was based on tainted
supplements, the have been big news in cycling for quite a while. Then we come
to Neben where she gets six months because Bisceglia testifies that he wasn't
aware of the tainted supplement problem, and they hadn't done enough to warn
rides. He been living under a rock during Moninger's stuff, or is he just
lying? Then there's the conflict of interest stuff which really seems to play
into this too.
Bill C

Quoted message said:

TritonRider said:

It's just the [censored] adding up that's pissing me off. You've got Moninger who
was actually able to give them at least some tainted supplement. The decision
was "You took it, that's on you." His whole case was based on tainted
supplements, the have been big news in cycling for quite a while. Then we come
to Neben where she gets six months because Bisceglia testifies that he wasn't
aware of the tainted supplement problem, and they hadn't done enough to warn
rides. He been living under a rock during Moninger's stuff, or is he just
lying? Then there's the conflict of interest stuff which really seems to play
into this too.

Well, you are right about the Neben case.

Moninger's case is not as straightforward as you would think. Moninger
paid for his own analysis of a bottle of a tyrosine supplement, which
came up positive for 19-norandrosterone. But this was not verified by
the UCLA lab for either the remainder of the opened bottle that came
up positive or for two unopened bottles. They did find "unknown substances
with steriods characteristics" but it wasn't what Moninger's lab had
found.

There was testimony that it is "very unusual" to find metabolites in a
capsule analysis as Moninger's lab reported. And that Moninger's lab
found an amount that was hugely higher than the level of a trace
contaminant.

http://www.usantidoping.org/files/active/arbitration_rulings/arbitration_ruling_4_3_2003_Moninger.pdf

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:45:56 -0000, Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

TritonRider said:

It's just the [censored] adding up that's pissing me off. You've got Moninger who
was actually able to give them at least some tainted supplement. The decision
was "You took it, that's on you." His whole case was based on tainted
supplements, the have been big news in cycling for quite a while. Then we come
to Neben where she gets six months because Bisceglia testifies that he wasn't
aware of the tainted supplement problem, and they hadn't done enough to warn
rides. He been living under a rock during Moninger's stuff, or is he just
lying? Then there's the conflict of interest stuff which really seems to play
into this too.

Well, you are right about the Neben case.

Moninger's case is not as straightforward as you would think. Moninger
paid for his own analysis of a bottle of a tyrosine supplement, which
came up positive for 19-norandrosterone. But this was not verified by
the UCLA lab for either the remainder of the opened bottle that came
up positive or for two unopened bottles. They did find "unknown substances
with steriods characteristics" but it wasn't what Moninger's lab had
found.

There was testimony that it is "very unusual" to find metabolites in a
capsule analysis as Moninger's lab reported. And that Moninger's lab
found an amount that was hugely higher than the level of a trace
contaminant.

http://www.usantidoping.org/files/active/arbitration_rulings/arbitration_ruling_4_3_2003_Moninger.pdf

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

What I'd like to know is where in the US, even with prescription, one could
get a nasal inhalant with this in it?:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpcWU3ZWcyBF9TAzk1OTEyNTc0BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=reu-doping&prov=reuters&type=lgns
or
http://tinyurl.com/6ama6

-B

[email hidden] (Kenny) wrote in message =

Quoted message said:

You have to read the article correctly (and make sure you understand
it). VDB has already been suspended for 6 months. He will be the
first rider who has to appear for a civil court (for possessing drugs
without a prescription) after being punished by the national Cycling
association first. So don't say he isn't punished enough cause no
other rider caught doping was treated in the same way as VDB.

punishment from the cycling federation has nothing to do with the
legal system (i assume belgium is not unique in this sense). since he
broke a law he's facing a criminal conviction and the punishment that
goes along with it.

Quoted message said:

Kenny (says that VDB will not reach the age of 35)

he's almost there.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov30news
He flat out refuses to cooperate with the investigation. Refuses to

name

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

his

Quoted message said:

suppliers and the law enforcement(?) types he screws over say that's OK
do

some

Quoted message said:

communtiy service and keep racing. What a complete clusterfuck of a

situation.

Quoted message said:

I think Tonya Harding and Co. should move to Belgium and start a

business

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

kneecapping riders for a price. Hell, with that kind of law enforcement

they

Quoted message said:

should have a hell of a bottom line.
Bill C
Lafferty's right! Legalise it all and [censored] the consequences!

Does this mean you are converting to Laffertyism? Lets wait till Lance
retires first since he is the only one who is clean.

B-

I think Bill forgot to take his meds. It happens to all of once in a

while.

Yeah, I think he's been hitting the holiday spirits speaking of which I
still have some Baileys Irish Creme on the shelf.

B. Lafferty said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov30news

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lafferty's right! Legalise it all and [censored] the consequences!

But, but........Hein says that the peloton is 95% clean. And when asked
whether cycling has a drug problem, Tyler blew the BBC's question off and
told us how beautiful the sport is (and it is!). So there can't be a major
problem, Bill

Seriously, I'm really conflicted about whether to legalize it or not. The
latest tales of heart attacks, possibly induced by use of hgh, and other
dangerous practices without any acknowledgment by the sport that widows and
orphans are being created, sickens me. I'm just happy that I live in the
USA--home of the free (minor exceptions apply); land of the natural athlete;
led in innocence by the examples of Lance and Tyler. How do I know that
drugs in USA cycling are not a problem, you ask? Why in 25 years of racing
at the very minor grassroots level, I've never seen a drug test
administered. So there must not be a problem. ;-)

If the "really big test" is a plethora of widows and orphans of cyclists, then
there probably isn't a problem.

The 2nd meaning of _plethora_ is quite amusing in the Tyler case:

pleth·o·ra

pleth·o·ra (pleth??r-?) noun

1. A superabundance; an excess.
2. An excess of blood in the circulatory system or in one organ or area.

[email hidden] (Amit) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Kenny) wrote in message =

Quoted message said:

You have to read the article correctly (and make sure you understand
it). VDB has already been suspended for 6 months. He will be the
first rider who has to appear for a civil court (for possessing drugs
without a prescription) after being punished by the national Cycling
association first. So don't say he isn't punished enough cause no
other rider caught doping was treated in the same way as VDB.

punishment from the cycling federation has nothing to do with the
legal system (i assume belgium is not unique in this sense). since he
broke a law he's facing a criminal conviction and the punishment that
goes along with it.

That's what i say. From a strictly legal point of view, what's going
on with VDB is perfectly possible. But before, no other rider who was
in VDB-like doping case has ever been punished afterwards by a civil
court. He will be the first. A few years ago they found a garden
shed full of EPO at Peter Farazijn's. He was never punished by the
Belgian cycling federation, nor by a civil court. But no, this is
VDB, a former super talent. He has two children with two women, is on
the verge of a divorce, was at the top of cycling when he was
unrightfully suspended by cofidis in 2000, was led away with handcuffs
at the police station in 2002, was punished for 6 months, has a
psychologist who isn't even able to get him back on track, he is
manically depressive and a drug user (let's face it). I think most of
that kind of people are treated in a whole other way than appearing
for a court and getting an extra punishment. VDB should be in a
mental clinic, not in a court room or on a bike.

Kenny