Scraping my pedals turning

1) get a shorter crank.
2) get narrower pedals.
3) try coasting through the turn, keeping your inside pedal high.
But in any case, be careful, because this could potentially cause your bike to
go out of control if this happens at a high rate of speed.

Badger_South said:

I've noticed that making a low speed turn, say 8-10 mph or less in a
typical dead end street roundabout results in my pedals scraping the road
if I pedal normally during the turn. I've got a Trek hybrid.

Isn't this abnormal? I'm not up to the level I want to be in bike handling,
so I can be fairly sure I'm not doing an excessive lean like some pros may
do.

I mean I could just coast during the turn, but it seems like I should be
able to make that circle at a lot higher speed, and if I'm scraping my
pedals on a hybrid, I'm wondering how others can make high speed turns with
much great lean while pedalling.

Can't believe there's something wrong with the bike - the pedal length
feels good to my admittedly uneducated feel. It's puzzling.

Thoughts?

-B

Gary Smiley said:

1) get a shorter crank.
2) get narrower pedals.
3) try coasting through the turn, keeping your inside pedal high.
But in any case, be careful, because this could potentially cause your bike to
go out of control if this happens at a high rate of speed.

Right, my brother actually had his first crash due to pedals scraping. I
guess I was wondering if this was normal, at my modest angle of lean. I
guess by your reply it's common. Weird.

Yeah, the thing with getting a shorter crank is that it can mess up your
cadence and pedalling power and whatnot.

Guess I'll just continue with #3. Wish I could figure out how the pros do
it, b/c I'm not leaning nearly as much as they are. Maybe their bikes are
set up differently for more clearance, or something.

Anyway, thanks for the kind reply!

-B

Quoted message said:

Badger_South said:

I've noticed that making a low speed turn, say 8-10 mph or less in a
typical dead end street roundabout results in my pedals scraping the road
if I pedal normally during the turn. I've got a Trek hybrid.

Isn't this abnormal? I'm not up to the level I want to be in bike handling,
so I can be fairly sure I'm not doing an excessive lean like some pros may
do.

I mean I could just coast during the turn, but it seems like I should be
able to make that circle at a lot higher speed, and if I'm scraping my
pedals on a hybrid, I'm wondering how others can make high speed turns with
much great lean while pedalling.

Can't believe there's something wrong with the bike - the pedal length
feels good to my admittedly uneducated feel. It's puzzling.

Thoughts?

-B

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:56:18 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've noticed that making a low speed turn, say 8-10 mph or less in a
typical dead end street roundabout results in my pedals scraping the road
if I pedal normally during the turn. I've got a Trek hybrid.

Isn't this abnormal? I'm not up to the level I want to be in bike handling,
so I can be fairly sure I'm not doing an excessive lean like some pros may
do.

I mean I could just coast during the turn, but it seems like I should be
able to make that circle at a lot higher speed, and if I'm scraping my
pedals on a hybrid, I'm wondering how others can make high speed turns with
much great lean while pedalling.

Can't believe there's something wrong with the bike - the pedal length
feels good to my admittedly uneducated feel. It's puzzling.

Thoughts?

-B

What's the bottom bracket height? A lower BB is supposed to make a
bike more stable in ways, so maybe Trek has a low one on your hybrid.
Road 'racing' bikes will have higher BBs for cornering clearance,
although I don't know all the factors that go into this decision.

How big are the peddles? Wide and thick peddles will be more prone to
hit for obvious reasons.

For something like criterium racing, a high bottom bracket and pedals
with high lean angles (how far you can tilt the bike before a pedal
will hit) are desirable. That is one reason that pros can pedal though
some corners.

It's rare that I will pedal through turns unless there are good
reasons and I feel confident of my pedals' size and strike point. It's
a strange feeling to hit a pedal, and I don't like the feeling one
bit.

Any chance that you are rocking the bike while pedalling? That somehow
the bike leans *towards* the downstroke side? Ideally, pedalling will
be only up and down and not make the bike move from side to side in
almost all circumstances. Your body shouldn't be moving side to side,
either. Maybe you could practice coasting through the turns, getting a
solid feel for how the bike and your body should flow and be aligned
for best speed and stability. Then start adding pedal strokes slowly
and make sure that the bike and body stay in line and don't rock.
Turns should flow, not be work...

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've noticed that making a low speed turn, say 8-10 mph or less in a
typical dead end street roundabout results in my pedals scraping the road
if I pedal normally during the turn. I've got a Trek hybrid.

Isn't this abnormal? I'm not up to the level I want to be in bike

handling,

Quoted message said:

so I can be fairly sure I'm not doing an excessive lean like some pros

may

Quoted message said:

do.

I mean I could just coast during the turn, but it seems like I should be
able to make that circle at a lot higher speed, and if I'm scraping my
pedals on a hybrid, I'm wondering how others can make high speed turns

with

Quoted message said:

much great lean while pedalling.

Can't believe there's something wrong with the bike - the pedal length
feels good to my admittedly uneducated feel. It's puzzling.

Some bike frames have low bottom brackets, which make putting a foot down
while seated easier (or even possible). The downside to this is increased
risk of pedal strike. Wide and/or thick pedals exacerbate the problem --
which is one of the features of clipless systems (low profile).

Another thing that influences pedal strike is road slope. If the road
you're circling on has much of a crown, that could explain part of your
problem. In any case, pedaling through sharp turns has little advantage. If
your bike is prone to pedal strike, it's not a wise thing to do.

Badger_South said:

I've noticed that making a low speed turn, say 8-10 mph or less in a
typical dead end street roundabout results in my pedals scraping the road
if I pedal normally during the turn. I've got a Trek hybrid.

Yes, it's normal until you change your riding style in such turns.

Quoted message said:

Isn't this abnormal? I'm not up to the level I want to be in bike handling,
so I can be fairly sure I'm not doing an excessive lean like some pros may
do.

At low speed you should probably keep the bike more upright
and lean your body out to the side a bit. It stresses the
wheel laterally, but at low speed it's not significant to
the durability of the bike.

Quoted message said:

I mean I could just coast during the turn, but it seems like I should be
able to make that circle at a lot higher speed, and if I'm scraping my
pedals on a hybrid, I'm wondering how others can make high speed turns with
much great lean while pedalling.

A bike built for criterium racing (designed for rides
around short loops in ordinary urban terrain where making
sharp turns at full speed is the key to winning) will
have the bottom bracket set higher off the ground than
an ordinary bike. It might also have shorter cranks,
narrower pedals, and a rider who knows how to time his
stroke to make the inside pedal come over the top at the
sharpest point in the turn (I sometimes practice such a
move over a curb on my morning ride; kids, don't try this
at home).

Quoted message said:

Can't believe there's something wrong with the bike - the pedal length
feels good to my admittedly uneducated feel. It's puzzling.

Measure it, in millimeters, from the center of the crank
to center of the pedal spindle, and tell us what you got.
Maybe you have 175's. I ride 165's (I have stubby legs)
and I still have to hesitate my stroke through some turns.

--Blair
"I'm thinking of installing a
trailer hitch."

Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:23:42 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, Blair P. Houghton

Quoted message said:

A bike built for criterium racing (designed for rides
around short loops in ordinary urban terrain where making
sharp turns at full speed is the key to winning) will
have the bottom bracket set higher off the ground than
an ordinary bike. It might also have shorter cranks,
narrower pedals, and a rider who knows how to time his
stroke to make the inside pedal come over the top at the
sharpest point in the turn (I sometimes practice such a
move over a curb on my morning ride; kids, don't try this
at home).

My '85 Norco Sasquatch has a high BB, relaxed angles and a long
wheelbase. It's a sled around town.
It also runs Zeus track pedal with PowerGrips.
Their bit of excess strap and the pseudo-tread on Ritchey Tom Slicks
provides good feedback at the edges of the envelope.

I definitely throw it over further than my fixie.
--
zk

"Zoot Katz" wrote: (clip) I definitely throw it over further than my fixie.
^^^^^^^^^^^
That raises an interesting question. What do people on fixies do? Can't
pause, or time the strokes. And it seems like holding the bike straight and
shifting body weight would also be pretty hard on a fixie. Just wondering.

BTW, if you ride off-road a lot, you soon learn to hold the pedals
horizontal when going over high centers.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Zoot Katz" wrote: (clip) I definitely throw it over further than my
fixie.
^^^^^^^^^^^
That raises an interesting question. What do people on fixies do? Can't
pause, or time the strokes. And it seems like holding the bike straight
and
shifting body weight would also be pretty hard on a fixie. Just
wondering.

BTW, if you ride off-road a lot, you soon learn to hold the pedals
horizontal when going over high centers.

I time the pedaling over the high parts, works good when there are rocks
an both sides that you have to pedal past, too.
Bill Baka

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Leo Lichtman said:

"Zoot Katz" wrote: (clip) I definitely throw it over further than my
fixie. ^^^^^^^^^^^
That raises an interesting question. What do people on fixies do?
Can't pause, or time the strokes. And it seems like holding the bike
straight and shifting body weight would also be pretty hard on a
fixie. Just wondering.

BTW, if you ride off-road a lot, you soon learn to hold the pedals
horizontal when going over high centers.

If you ride off road enough, pedal strikes are just gonna happen. They're
still pretty disconcerting and can cause you to bite it, but that's just
part of the fun.

Tom

Quoted message said:

I still have to hesitate my stroke through some turns.

I've found that the single biggest advantage of a cross bike geometry
frame in urban traffic scenarios is the 10.5 inch BB height versus the
9.5 inch BB height common to road bikes and tourers.

It really makes a difference in terms of not having to think about
the corners as much, pedaling-wise.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:14:14 -0400, <[email hidden]>, "Eric

S. Sande said:

I've found that the single biggest advantage of a cross bike geometry
frame in urban traffic scenarios is the 10.5 inch BB height versus the
9.5 inch BB height common to road bikes and tourers.

My fixie is 10.75" with the slack angles of an old road bike.
The joe-bike, built on an old-school MTB, is 11.5".
--
zk

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've found that the single biggest advantage of a cross bike geometry
frame in urban traffic scenarios is the 10.5 inch BB height versus the
9.5 inch BB height common to road bikes and tourers.

Quoted message said:

My fixie is 10.75" with the slack angles of an old road bike.
The joe-bike, built on an old-school MTB, is 11.5".

Those are Canadian inches.

But it really does make a difference.

If you're sayin' I'm a slack angled roadie, you'd be right.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Quoted message said:

I've noticed that making a low speed turn, say 8-10 mph or less in a
typical dead end street roundabout results in my pedals scraping the road
if I pedal normally during the turn. I've got a Trek hybrid.

Careful... you can get over-confident pedalling round a RAB and such pedal
strike can be the cause of you & the bike parting company and you gaining some
nasty road rash. This happened to my teenage son when he was on target for a
new personal best in a time trial - pedalled through the RAB - pedal strike on
turn and off he came... The road rash was *nasty* and he still has the scars to
prove it. It's taking time for him to get his confidence back. He has
subsequently improved his PB though :-)

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

Badger_South said:

if I'm scraping my
pedals on a hybrid, I'm wondering how others can make high speed turns with
much great lean while pedalling.

Hi Badge,

Among specifications such as weight and float, you have "cornering
angle" (e.g. 38 degrees, etc) for pedals intended for racing. I'm not
really sure what the cornering angle represents since this will be
affected by BB height and crank length.

It's common in racing to bump the pedal on the ground; it's less
common to crash, but it does happen. My old Look pedals are scraped up
from cranking while cornering and it wasn't unusual when I was younger
for my rear tire to lift up and slide out because of a pedal strike. I
never crashed, but it's not hard to lose control.

Today, I use MTB-style SPD pedals on my road bike. It's a lot easier
to strike the pavement through turns, but I want to avoid that because
it damages my dual-sided pedals.

RFM

(Fritz M) said:

Badger_South said:

if I'm scraping my
pedals on a hybrid, I'm wondering how others can make high speed turns with
much great lean while pedalling.

Hi Badge,

Among specifications such as weight and float, you have "cornering
angle" (e.g. 38 degrees, etc) for pedals intended for racing. I'm not
really sure what the cornering angle represents since this will be
affected by BB height and crank length.

It's common in racing to bump the pedal on the ground; it's less
common to crash, but it does happen. My old Look pedals are scraped up
from cranking while cornering and it wasn't unusual when I was younger
for my rear tire to lift up and slide out because of a pedal strike. I
never crashed, but it's not hard to lose control.

Today, I use MTB-style SPD pedals on my road bike. It's a lot easier
to strike the pavement through turns, but I want to avoid that because
it damages my dual-sided pedals.

RFM

Thanks. I think my problem was that I was set on pedalling during cornering
or U-turning, and upon reading here and reflecting, It's not needed, so
I've dropped that, uh, idea. ;-)

I'm concentrating on getting the pedals in the right config, i.e. the side
leaning with that pedal at 12:00, and maybe putting the knee out on the
inside. Um, as I said, I'm still working on my bike handling, and I have a
tendency to always want to have my left leg at 6:00, for some reason.

I'm not really as klutzy as I may sound, getting 18-20mph average in the
flats and working on my hill climbing, but, duh, there is definitely
technique that I'm still learning.

When I rode as a kid in my late teens and 20s, I never had these problems
as I recall, but in my 50s, even though I'm somewhat athletic, and a former
jogger and swimmer, I'm aware that I have a ways to go in simple bike
handling.

Thanks for the kind reply.

-B

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Badger_South said:

Gary Smiley said:

1) get a shorter crank.
2) get narrower pedals.
3) try coasting through the turn, keeping your inside pedal high.
But in any case, be careful, because this could potentially cause your bike to
go out of control if this happens at a high rate of speed.

Right, my brother actually had his first crash due to pedals scraping. I
guess I was wondering if this was normal, at my modest angle of lean. I
guess by your reply it's common. Weird.

Yeah, the thing with getting a shorter crank is that it can mess up your
cadence and pedalling power and whatnot.

Guess I'll just continue with #3. Wish I could figure out how the pros do
it, b/c I'm not leaning nearly as much as they are. Maybe their bikes are
set up differently for more clearance, or something.

Anyway, thanks for the kind reply!

-B

Another thing to consider, if it only happens in that one area, is that perhaps
that road has a higher than normal crown.

Mark

- --
Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

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Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message ne

Quoted message said:

I'm concentrating on getting the pedals in the right config, i.e. the side
leaning with that pedal at 12:00, and maybe putting the knee out on the
inside. Um, as I said, I'm still working on my bike handling, and I have a
tendency to always want to have my left leg at 6:00, for some reason.

This is not an unusual problem and you are probably most of the way to
a solution. Have you any experience with counter steering? It goes a
long way to getting you through turns at speed. There are also tricks
like consciously weighting the outside pedal and as you mention
pointing the inside knee.
When I was learning these techniques I found open area turns that I
could ratchet up my speed and tighten the turn. After a while one
develops a very good sense of how far you can lean the bike. It also
helps to do this with an epxerienced rider just to your inside on a
turn (like in a crit) you will then have a visual cue to how far over
you should be for the specific turn/speed.
Then they throw sand on the road and you get a new learning experience
:-)

"gds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message ne

Quoted message said:

I'm concentrating on getting the pedals in the right config, i.e. the

side

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leaning with that pedal at 12:00, and maybe putting the knee out on the
inside. Um, as I said, I'm still working on my bike handling, and I

have a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tendency to always want to have my left leg at 6:00, for some reason.

This is not an unusual problem and you are probably most of the way to
a solution. Have you any experience with counter steering? It goes a
long way to getting you through turns at speed.

Counter steering is the only way you can steer a bike at any speed.

Quoted message said:

There are also tricks
like consciously weighting the outside pedal and as you mention
pointing the inside knee.

These tricks really do nothing. In any turn, you'll pull a certain sideways
force which you must balance with lean. You must keep the center of mass in
a particular line with the contact patch. Weighting one foot or the other
or sticking arms or legs out really doesn't change this and can make bike
control more difficult. I prefer to corner fast with cranks horizontal so I
can absorb bumps, this has a larger effect on speed.

Quoted message said:

When I was learning these techniques I found open area turns that I
could ratchet up my speed and tighten the turn. After a while one
develops a very good sense of how far you can lean the bike. It also
helps to do this with an epxerienced rider just to your inside on a
turn (like in a crit) you will then have a visual cue to how far over
you should be for the specific turn/speed.

The amount of lean is fixed for the speed, you can't change it. Any follow
the leader should only allow you to learn the line to follow and the speed
to corner at, the lean is predetermined.