school track now illegal to use!

I have not experienced this myself, but I admire your persistance in making
this track open to the community again and I would feel just as upset and
frustrated. This attitude by the school seems so counter to what I remember
when I lived in Colorado 20 years ago...when CO was a haven for exercisers.
I wonder, can you start up a community petition and take it to the state
level? Maybe they have insurance fears and maybe you can even offer to pay a
useage fee to cover any insurance costs. Good luck.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I live close to one of the high schools in Denver Colorado. I've
lived here many years, and for the past several years have used the
running track at the school for my running work-outs. I fast-walk or
jog to the track from my house. I NEVER drive to the track. I go
there to run, as does my wife and her friends. I also take several
neighborhood kids to the track and expose them to running and exercise,
etc.

This old 440 yard track was open and available 24/7 to the community
for running, exercising, working out.....whatever. Lots of people of
all ages used the track, year around, at all times of the day. Very,
very convenient, and an asset to the community.

This past summer, the running track and adjacent football field was
given a "face-lifting".......a renovation. The school system
calls it an "improvement". One of the "improvements" was a
very tall fence, complete with many "KEEP OUT" signs. Securely
padlocked gates.

Depending on whom one talks to, this renovation/improvement cost
anywhere from $1.2 million............all the way up to $2
million........

What the community got for their tax money was the removal of a place
to run and exercise. I feel we got robbed.

I set up a meeting with the High School Athletic Director, to see what
was going on, and to see if there was any way to get permission for
myself and the rest of the community to use the track.

He was quite cold, and very negative about individuals from the
community ever using the new track again. He referred me to the Denver
Public School office titled "Community Facility Use". I had
several conversations with that office. Very negative. They finally
referred me to an office named "Communications and Public
Relations". More negative attitude. I sensed these people wanted me
to "go away". The "Communications and PR" office referred me
BACK to the "Community Facility Use" office. OK.......so I had
made the circle........ I'm still trying to do this the correct way,
through the proper channels. I decide to talk to the Athletic Director
in charge of _ALL_ Denver public schools. I talked to her, she was
slightly sympathetic, but would not help, and she also definitely
wanted me to "go away".

Okay.......I guess I will not be able to secure permission by asking
within the school system. So I contact my Council-person. A woman I
admire, and a hard worker. Nope, public schools are outside of her
arena. She recommends that I contact my School Board member, who
represents my geographic area. I do this. It turns out that this
woman had graduated from this very High School! This lady is
interested, and she does approach the school system, but she gets
nowhere. I DO think she tried very hard, but evidentally no one she
talked to would really listen, and think.

Interesting side note.....I have permission to use a couple of tracks
at private high schools......schools that I do NOT support with my tax
dollars!!!!

I've run out of ideas and I've run out of people who might be in a
position to help me and other members of the community gain access to
this running track.

I'd like to hear from others who may have experienced a similar
situation. What was the ultimate outcome of your ordeal?

Thank you.... Lee Carkenord

Quoted message said:

I live close to one of the high schools in Denver Colorado. I've
lived here many years, and for the past several years have used the
running track at the school for my running work-outs. I fast-walk or
jog to the track from my house. I NEVER drive to the track. I go
there to run, as does my wife and her friends. I also take several
neighborhood kids to the track and expose them to running and exercise,
etc.

Quoted message said:

This old 440 yard track was open and available 24/7 to the community
for running, exercising, working out.....whatever. Lots of people of
all ages used the track, year around, at all times of the day. Very,
very convenient, and an asset to the community.

Quoted message said:

This past summer, the running track and adjacent football field was
given a "face-lifting".......a renovation. The school system
calls it an "improvement". One of the "improvements" was a
very tall fence, complete with many "KEEP OUT" signs. Securely
padlocked gates.

Sounds very much like what I experienced when I was in university.
The university moved to Division I and then, up came the fences,
the big pad locks, and then, came the signs. Not to mention that
they increased the tuition fees of all students in order to fund
their Division I aspirations. But, you only got to use the track
only if you are on the track team. Unfortunately, I was a only a
tuition-paying student. So, I wasn't permitted to use it. Too bad.

I took it up with the Athletics director who acted sympathetic but
didn't do anything. He said it costs them $100,000 to $200,000 to
re-lay the track after it wears down and that due to increased
community usage the lifetime had decreased from 10+ years to less
than 5 years.

I even talked to one of the Community Relations person who was
very helpful but couldn't do anything. She herself was quite
frustrated, more so because inspite of being a university employee
she couldn't get them to see what was wrong with the situation.

Anyway, I started doing my speedwork on the nearby hills. (Ah, that
was a good phase.) As time went by, more students passed through the
portals of higher education into real life, the cafeteria food prices
went up and up as usual, more bikes got stolen on campus, until suddenly,
after a few months, the miracle of miracles! The track was re-opened.
To the common folk. Just like that. No announcement or anything like
that but just open. The notices still remained, though. That sure was
a watershed moment in the local history.

I don't know how it happened. But, I'm guessing they probably had
pressure from the community. They had been trying to raise money
for quite some time since the university had been growing.

Quoted message said:

I've run out of ideas and I've run out of people who might be in a
position to help me and other members of the community gain access to
this running track.

First of all, I must commend you on your persistence. It must be
really frustrating. I didn't go through half the trouble that you've
been through.

At this stage, it doesn't look like bureaucracy is going to help.
Time to put democracy to work. I'd say, get a petition going. Get
people from the local community to sign your petition. Try to see
if you can get this issue in the local newspaper or radio stations.
Maybe even the school paper, if they have one. Maybe get some folks
together and organize a protest march in order to call attention to
the issue.

Quoted message said:

Thank you.... Lee Carkenord

Good luck Lee. I sincerely hope this works out for you. Keep us posted.
jobs

"I also take several neighborhood kids to the track and expose them to
running and exercise..."

I think Lee meant to say "I also take several neighborhood kids to the
track and expose myself to them, sending them running."

How about a letter to the editor of yro local paper about how your public
taxes are being used for school facilities that you are now banned from
using.

All you want is an explanation of why?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This past summer, the running track and adjacent football field was
given a "face-lifting".......a renovation. The school system
calls it an "improvement". One of the "improvements" was a
very tall fence, complete with many "KEEP OUT" signs. Securely
padlocked gates.

bummer 🙁

Quoted message said:

Sounds very much like what I experienced when I was in university.
The university moved to Division I and then, up came the fences,
the big pad locks, and then, came the signs. Not to mention that
they increased the tuition fees of all students in order to fund
their Division I aspirations.

Sounds like where I last went to grad school - student fees to fund the
football team, which the students didn't want, but the alumni allegedly did.

Quoted message said:

I took it up with the Athletics director who acted sympathetic but
didn't do anything. He said it costs them $100,000 to $200,000 to
re-lay the track after it wears down and that due to increased
community usage the lifetime had decreased from 10+ years to less
than 5 years.

Lee, following this thought, were there ever any issues of vandalism?
(thought was on top of my head because of some high school rivalry /
vandalism to local hs track this past weekend - only red rubberized
track around here)

Quoted message said:

I even talked to one of the Community Relations person who was
very helpful but couldn't do anything. She herself was quite
frustrated, more so because inspite of being a university employee
she couldn't get them to see what was wrong with the situation.

There's seldom any relationship between what university employees think
and what administration decrees. (don't ask, but I'm totally sympathetic
with her plight)

Quoted message said:

First of all, I must commend you on your persistence. It must be
really frustrating. I didn't go through half the trouble that you've
been through.

I agree.

Quoted message said:

At this stage, it doesn't look like bureaucracy is going to help.
Time to put democracy to work. I'd say, get a petition going. Get
people from the local community to sign your petition.

Petitions are a good starting point around here. And if you convince the
local officials via a petition, then they don't have to listen to a
roomful of upset people talking for 3 min each in public meeting. Those
evenings can get very long.

Quoted message said:

Try to see
if you can get this issue in the local newspaper or radio stations.
Maybe even the school paper, if they have one.

I agree. At the high school level (rather than college), school boards
are usually elected. Find some supporters there, and vote for the good
guys. Usually these people are also pro-education, so I don't think it's
a matter of putting track before education.

Attend school board or city (it's their schools and track, right? - or
is it setup differently there) meetings. Usually there's a place for
"persons to be heard" (general purpose) - or speaking in favor (or
against) of an ordinance or resolution. Get a bunch of people to speak.
Let the local newspaper know.

Quoted message said:

Maybe get some folks
together and organize a protest march in order to call attention to
the issue.

Or some kind of positive demonstration or have multiple people speak. We
usually have work days on the trails, while boro owned and operated,
have a lot of volunteer help. Our borough government recognizes the
sweat equity when push comes to shove. Not sure of parallels for tracks.

Get the running clubs to work together.

If there's any city planning going on, see if you can participate. Maybe
new athletic fields are being built, and you could have a public track
built around outside.

FWIW, we've had a *lot* of trail issues come up in the last couple years
across multiple levels - city, borough (county), and state. Trail groups
have formed in response to these issues. Besides trail improvements,
they're also active advocates - letter writing, public meetings
(attending, speaking), petitions, public comments, supporting favorable
candidates in elections, etc. These issues will continue for years. But
one thing with trails, not present with tracks, are the multiple use
aspect - run, walk, ski, bike, dog walkers, horse, orienteer, camp
skills, etc. - that draws a lot of people together (or at least
theoretically does). (of course, Alaskans were never known for keeping
their opinions quiet)

Good luck. Maybe there's some ideas you can apply to your own situation.

Dot

--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson

[email hidden] wrote in news:1128386056.646645.76800
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

I'd like to hear from others who may have experienced a similar
situation. What was the ultimate outcome of your ordeal?

I've never been in your situation but I can give you a recommendation: The
media (I work in the media and have written this story -- or similar ones
-- more than a couple times). Line up some names and phone numbers of folks
who've been locked out -- some seniors citizens are always good; maybe some
regular folks trying to stay active to avoid the obesity epidemic -- and
who are willing to talk for publication.

Schools need tax dollars to operate, and they only get them from millages,
and they only get those from voters. And schools are loathe to have
negative publicity about how they're using tax dollars, and don't want some
story about seniors being locked out of a $2 million track splashed in the
local newspaper or TV newscast. It makes it awful hard to pass the next
bond issue (that's why schools that want funds to build swimming pools
always talk FIRST about how the pools will be available for classes and
water-walking and such.).

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What the community got for their tax money was the removal of a place
to run and exercise. I feel we got robbed.

It's the same where I live and it boils down to security. If school is
in session you need a special use permit and even them reluctantly.
While we would like to think runners are all warm, sweet harmless
people -it's not true. If I was in charge of the school I might have
the same security - at least if the kids are outside.

Our tax money pays for ton of buildings that we have limited access to,
why should this be any different.

Quoted message said:

Interesting side note.....I have permission to use a couple of tracks
at private high schools......schools that I do NOT support with my tax
dollars!!!!

Sounds like to have a place to go.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to hear from others who may have experienced a similar
situation. What was the ultimate outcome of your ordeal?

Like it or not we are a fu**ed up world with a plethora of perverts and
some plain old terrorist potential non of which are going away soon. If
I was in charge of those children, I'd rather keep the kids protected
and you can go mark off a piece of road to do your measured runs.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Security of a different flavor - these new tracks are not just very
expensive but need lots of love and care. It wouldn't take but a few
a_holes with a dislike for jocks to render the track totally useless. In
the past tracks were blacktop, just like roads and fairly resistant. Now
they are some combination of rubber and will slice and dice like a
watermelon under a machete. All the new tracks have big signs limiting
what you are allowed to do. No bikes, no skateboards, only rubberized
short spikes for racing, etc., etc.

We have a school/city combined ownership in a different town, and they
have to pay to have someone there while it's open.

-DF

Quoted message said:

I live close to one of the high schools in Denver Colorado. I've
lived here many years, and for the past several years have used the
running track at the school for my running work-outs. I fast-walk or
jog to the track from my house. I NEVER drive to the track. I go
there to run, as does my wife and her friends. I also take several
neighborhood kids to the track and expose them to running and exercise,
etc.

This old 440 yard track was open and available 24/7 to the community
for running, exercising, working out.....whatever. Lots of people of
all ages used the track, year around, at all times of the day. Very,
very convenient, and an asset to the community.

This past summer, the running track and adjacent football field was
given a "face-lifting".......a renovation. The school system
calls it an "improvement". One of the "improvements" was a
very tall fence, complete with many "KEEP OUT" signs. Securely
padlocked gates.

Depending on whom one talks to, this renovation/improvement cost
anywhere from $1.2 million............all the way up to $2
million........

What the community got for their tax money was the removal of a place
to run and exercise. I feel we got robbed.

I set up a meeting with the High School Athletic Director, to see what
was going on, and to see if there was any way to get permission for
myself and the rest of the community to use the track.

He was quite cold, and very negative about individuals from the
community ever using the new track again. He referred me to the Denver
Public School office titled "Community Facility Use". I had
several conversations with that office. Very negative. They finally
referred me to an office named "Communications and Public
Relations". More negative attitude. I sensed these people wanted me
to "go away". The "Communications and PR" office referred me
BACK to the "Community Facility Use" office. OK.......so I had
made the circle........ I'm still trying to do this the correct way,
through the proper channels. I decide to talk to the Athletic Director
in charge of _ALL_ Denver public schools. I talked to her, she was
slightly sympathetic, but would not help, and she also definitely
wanted me to "go away".

Okay.......I guess I will not be able to secure permission by asking
within the school system. So I contact my Council-person. A woman I
admire, and a hard worker. Nope, public schools are outside of her
arena. She recommends that I contact my School Board member, who
represents my geographic area. I do this. It turns out that this
woman had graduated from this very High School! This lady is
interested, and she does approach the school system, but she gets
nowhere. I DO think she tried very hard, but evidentally no one she
talked to would really listen, and think.

Interesting side note.....I have permission to use a couple of tracks
at private high schools......schools that I do NOT support with my tax
dollars!!!!

I've run out of ideas and I've run out of people who might be in a
position to help me and other members of the community gain access to
this running track.

I'd like to hear from others who may have experienced a similar
situation. What was the ultimate outcome of your ordeal?

Thank you.... Lee Carkenord

Have not experienced that but I'm sure it is security. The newest
publuic high school in my area has all of the atheletic facilities
fenced. The other schools do not.

You might try getting involved as a track or cross country booster or
volunteer coach. Amazing how access can change.

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:25:45 -0400, [email hidden] (Miss Anne

Thrope) said:

I think Lee meant to say "I also take several neighborhood kids to the
track and expose myself to them, sending them running."

Right you are Anne.

You should send this post to the Rocky Mountain News and/or Denver Post.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

I took it up with the Athletics director who acted sympathetic but
didn't do anything. He said it costs them $100,000 to $200,000 to
re-lay the track after it wears down and that due to increased
community usage the lifetime had decreased from 10+ years to less
than 5 years.

Unfortunately this is a very real problem. The public instinctively
(ignorantly) does their running on the inside of lane 1, and this traffic
will cut the life of the track in half or worse. They definitely ignore
signs stating to not do so. When the surfacing cost $200,000 (especially
for the lowly track program), it's a major concern. At least in team
practices, some coaches have the wherewithal to enforce that nobody runs in
lanes 1 or 2. There are not many workouts that require the use of lane 1.
During off-hours, they can put up those barriers that block the inside
lanes, but they're a major hassle.
As for the school district's liability - I can see it being a real
problem. You can only imagine the hoopla that [censored] lawyers and worrywart
residents would have if a crime took place in that facility, after hours.
Then a lawyer would find a way to blame to school and sue them for millions
of taxpayer dollars, which would come from the budget and not a tax
increase. It's amazing what a person isn't legally responsible for in the
US.
Maybe the answer is to make all-weather tracks would be better if made
from the dense grindings of personal injury lawyers. The price would go way
down, and taxpayers would probably endorse getting it repaved annually :o)

Dave

[email hidden] writes:

: I've run out of ideas and I've run out of people who might be in a
: position to help me and other members of the community gain access to
: this running track.

: I'd like to hear from others who may have experienced a similar
: situation. What was the ultimate outcome of your ordeal?

: Thank you.... Lee Carkenord

Go to the local school board meeting. Take as many people with you
to talk about the problem. Members of the community are allowed to
speak at the meetings. Usually you get 2 to 3 minutes each. Write
up your presentation before you go. Have at least a dozen people
there, all with prepared remarks.

If the school board does not do something, go to the local newspaper.
Tell them about the problem. Get a sympathetic reporter to write
up your problem. Visit the next school board meeting, this time after
telling the press you are going to be there. Make your presentations
again.

Make sure the policy gets LOTS of public attention.

Larry

Quoted message said:

Go to the local school board meeting. Take as many people with you
to talk about the problem. Members of the community are allowed to
speak at the meetings. Usually you get 2 to 3 minutes each. Write
up your presentation before you go. Have at least a dozen people
there, all with prepared remarks.

If the school board does not do something, go to the local newspaper.
Tell them about the problem. Get a sympathetic reporter to write
up your problem. Visit the next school board meeting, this time after
telling the press you are going to be there. Make your presentations
again.

Make sure the policy gets LOTS of public attention.

Larry

And when they open the track and it's vandalized, you'll be the first
ones [censored] about how your tax dollars are getting wasted.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] writes:

: I've run out of ideas and I've run out of people who might be in a
: position to help me and other members of the community gain access to
: this running track.

: I'd like to hear from others who may have experienced a similar
: situation. What was the ultimate outcome of your ordeal?

: Thank you.... Lee Carkenord

Go to the local school board meeting. Take as many people with you
to talk about the problem. Members of the community are allowed to
speak at the meetings. Usually you get 2 to 3 minutes each. Write
up your presentation before you go. Have at least a dozen people
there, all with prepared remarks.

If the school board does not do something, go to the local newspaper.
Tell them about the problem. Get a sympathetic reporter to write
up your problem. Visit the next school board meeting, this time after
telling the press you are going to be there. Make your presentations
again.

It might be interesting to angle this from the point that schools are
encouraging exercise but that this inhibits interested kids and residents
from doing so.

Dave

Quoted message said:

I go [to the track] to run, as does my wife and her friends.

I recognize that this is orthogonal to the interesting question about
universal access to a community property and so forth, but I just gotta
ask: what's the big attraction of the track, as a (or the only) running
venue?

You mention jogging to and from the track. Are the roads unpleasant
because they're too heavily trafficked with aggresive drivers? Or too
hard on the joints? Are there no local parks or trails? As an
eternally envious New Yorker my kneejerk assumption is that every
American living west of the Mississippi - especially in an area full of
young outdoorniks, like Denver - has several choice trails within a
quarter mile of his front door.

Or is the track itself actually enjoyable and not just the "least
worst" option? Maybe there's a lively social scene? Do some find
comfort and lack of distraction, rather than boredom and oppression, in
the fact that there's only 400 metres of unchanging "scenery"?

Or is it something less concrete? Once upon a time my folks used to
drive a couple miles to the mall to "powerwalk". Never received a
plausible answer to the question, why the mall when you live right on a
river, near some woods with trails, and among quiet streets. Suspect
it had a lot to do with self-concept: my folks were regular people in
the suburbs who (the doctor said) needed exercise, and regular people
went to the mall. Crazy athletic kids might walk or jog outside, and
even in the woods; but not regular people especially beyond a certain
age.

Pendejo, who would sooner take smoking back up than run most of his
miles on a treadmill or track

David Geesaman said:

Maybe the answer is to make all-weather tracks would be better if made
from the dense grindings of personal injury lawyers. The price would go way
down, and taxpayers would probably endorse getting it repaved annually :o)

Dave

Now there's a constructive idea 🙂

Dot

--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson

On 3 Oct 2005 17:34:16 -0700, [email hidden] wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I live close to one of the high schools in Denver Colorado. I've
lived here many years, . . .
This old 440 yard track was open and available 24/7 to the community
for running, exercising, working out.....whatever. . . .
very tall fence, complete with many "KEEP OUT" signs. Securely
padlocked gates.

Yikes! This is one of my fears. Occassional valdalism at my local high
school track makes a lockout seem inevitable. I sometimes tell myself I
should form a "Friends of the Track" group or something (helping with
landscaping or litter removal?) *now* -- before the fences go up.

They've already gated the parking lot. The gate is almost always open
anyway, and when it is locked, parking on street and walking to the track
is still okay.

With all the news stories about obesity, and all the *talk* about healthy
lifestyles, one would *think* school districts would want to *encourage*
use of the facilities.

It may not look like it, but a 400M oval is a multi-use facility. An
amazing variety of people use the track. The 70+ year old man who walks
for his heart. The office workers who come up to do their mile or so. The
guy that's going to run the marathon in Dublin Ireland at the end of the
month. Walkers. Joggers. Martial-Arts enthusiasts. The heavy guy with
his personal trainer. -- And me, often with my daughter and/or son
(everybody can run their own pace and I can still keep them in sight).

Almost everybody who uses the track legitimately has a cell phone with
them, and police are just a phone call away, so vandalism is not taking
place while the "athletes" are there. Why punish the good guys???

I wish you the best of luck. If you *do* develop a committee or community
action group I'd be interested in your story on how you start, and how it's
going.

Peace,
--
Daniel
[email hidden]

I wouldn't be surprised if the issue was legal. If someone were to
injure themselves while using the track unsupervised, the school could
be held liable and since they are often self-insured, any judgement
would come out of their budget rather than from an insurance company.