Sastre's descent

ilan said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

-ilan

Risk is relative to skill. I thought Floyd took it easy on the last
one too.

ilan said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

-ilan

I don't imagine Landis was taking any more risks than Sastre was. He
didn't want to lose the Tour at that point due to a crash, either. The
difference is that Landis descends well enough that it looks like he's
taking risks, but he's actually well in control.

If it looked to you that Sastre was being cautious, it may be that he
was merely riding within his abilities, which aren't quite up to
Landis' standards for descending.

They were both descending as fast as they felt comfortable with, it's
just that for Landis that was a bit faster.

Fred

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

From what they showed of Floyd's descent (which wasn't much) it looked to me
like he was taking it REALLY easy for him. He's got a herky-jerky style of
cornering that mountain bikers all seem to have.

Tom Kunich said:

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

From what they showed of Floyd's descent (which wasn't much) it looked to me
like he was taking it REALLY easy for him. He's got a herky-jerky style of
cornering that mountain bikers all seem to have.

Okay, 'cause B Roll comments on his "mountain biker" style you have to
parrot it? How many pro mtb racers have you seen descending?

I recall the specific hairpin that elicited Roll's comment, when Landis
really had to flick the bike from a left to right lean. At first it
looked pretty harsh, but it was due to a very quick transition from a
left to right turn. Roll's comments, which you've practically
plagiarized, made it sound like a REAL road racer wouldn't do it that
way.

Funny thing, but 8 minutes later when the group of chasers got to the
same point, they flicked their bikes JUST LIKE Landis. Of course, it
would've made Roll look like a fool to say anything about how they
cornered, as they were all real road racers, so no comment was made.

I'd said earlier you only know about bike racing what you've misread.
I stand corrected. You sometimes get your misinformation from
gap-toothed former racers.

Fred

I actually didn't see any of Landis' descent -- I'm watching French
Canadian coverage,
which does the last 3 hours of each stage, but has 3 minute commercials
every 10 minutes, including the last 10 minutes. Sastre's descending
style seemed
overly cautious and not very relaxed, he was slowing way down before
entering
corners. In any case, 40 seconds lost on a 9 km descent seems a lot.

If I had been commentator, I would have also mentioned that Moreau may
have been chasing Sastre to give him another slap in the face like he
did
on a TdF climb a couple of years ago (2002 maybe).

-ilan

Quoted message said:

ilan said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

-ilan

I don't imagine Landis was taking any more risks than Sastre was. He
didn't want to lose the Tour at that point due to a crash, either. The
difference is that Landis descends well enough that it looks like he's
taking risks, but he's actually well in control.

If it looked to you that Sastre was being cautious, it may be that he
was merely riding within his abilities, which aren't quite up to
Landis' standards for descending.

They were both descending as fast as they felt comfortable with, it's
just that for Landis that was a bit faster.

Fred

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

From what they showed of Floyd's descent (which wasn't much) it looked to me
like he was taking it REALLY easy for him. He's got a herky-jerky style of
cornering that mountain bikers all seem to have.

Okay, 'cause B Roll comments on his "mountain biker" style you have to
parrot it? How many pro mtb racers have you seen descending?

I recall the specific hairpin that elicited Roll's comment, when Landis
really had to flick the bike from a left to right lean. At first it
looked pretty harsh, but it was due to a very quick transition from a
left to right turn. Roll's comments, which you've practically
plagiarized, made it sound like a REAL road racer wouldn't do it that
way.

Funny thing, but 8 minutes later when the group of chasers got to the
same point, they flicked their bikes JUST LIKE Landis. Of course, it
would've made Roll look like a fool to say anything about how they
cornered, as they were all real road racers, so no comment was made.

I'd said earlier you only know about bike racing what you've misread.
I stand corrected. You sometimes get your misinformation from
gap-toothed former racers.

I saw what you saw also, but Floyd does often appear to "set the tires" like on
a mountain bike.

Ron

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
> he was
> really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
> crashing. In fact,
> he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
> be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
> taking a big
> risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

From what they showed of Floyd's descent (which wasn't much) it looked to me
like he was taking it REALLY easy for him. He's got a herky-jerky style of
cornering that mountain bikers all seem to have.

Okay, 'cause B Roll comments on his "mountain biker" style you have to
parrot it? How many pro mtb racers have you seen descending?

I recall the specific hairpin that elicited Roll's comment, when Landis
really had to flick the bike from a left to right lean. At first it
looked pretty harsh, but it was due to a very quick transition from a
left to right turn. Roll's comments, which you've practically
plagiarized, made it sound like a REAL road racer wouldn't do it that
way.

Funny thing, but 8 minutes later when the group of chasers got to the
same point, they flicked their bikes JUST LIKE Landis. Of course, it
would've made Roll look like a fool to say anything about how they
cornered, as they were all real road racers, so no comment was made.

I'd said earlier you only know about bike racing what you've misread.
I stand corrected. You sometimes get your misinformation from
gap-toothed former racers.

I saw what you saw also, but Floyd does often appear to "set the tires" like on
a mountain bike.

Ron

Set the tires? WTF?

Quoted message said:

RonSonic said:

I saw what you saw also, but Floyd does often appear to "set the tires" like on
a mountain bike.

Ron

Set the tires? WTF?

Flicking the bike from side to side. Duh.

--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the
trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view,
the most insidious of traitors."
George H.W. Bush, April 16, 1999,

Raptor said:

Quoted message said:

RonSonic said:

I saw what you saw also, but Floyd does often appear to "set the tires" like on
a mountain bike.

Ron

Set the tires? WTF?

Flicking the bike from side to side. Duh.

--
Lynn Wallace

D'uh? Really,... then how come the others shown coming through the
switchbacks 8 minutes later aren't "setting the tires"? They all did
the same thing.

Fred

ilan said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

-ilan

Sastre was better than this guy........

Autocam leader injured in France

Updated: July 21, 2006 05:02 PM CDT

GRAND RAPIDS - A well-known West Michigan business leader is in the
hospital in France after being badly injured on his bicycle.

John C. Kennedy, the CEO of the precision machine manufacturer Autocam,
was in the French Alps to watch the Tour de France and bike with his
friends.

Sunday, Kennedy, an avid biker, was biking down a mountain when he
slammed into an oncoming van. A doctor friend who was with him treated
Kennedy until help arrived.

He has a concussion, a broken arm, a broken collarbone, broken ribs and
a damaged lung.

His wife started a blog to keep friends and family updated on the
situation and writes the biggest battle is keeping him quiet and
inactive long enough to recover. She also writes he's doing well.

She flew to France to be with him. He's expected to be hospitalized
there for at least a week.

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

I recall the specific hairpin that elicited Roll's comment, when Landis
really had to flick the bike from a left to right lean.  At first it
looked pretty harsh, but it was due to a very quick transition from a
left to right turn.  Roll's comments, which you've practically
plagiarized, made it sound like a REAL road racer wouldn't do it that
way.

What he means is that a REAL roadie wouldn't do it that /fast/. Pure
roadies have great endurance and are skilled at riding in a bunch but
tend not to be so good at bike handling; there's a benefit in being
reasonably competent at both disciplines.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

:: Wisdom is better than weapons of war ::
:: Ecclesiastes 9:18 ::

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
he was
really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
crashing. In fact,
he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
taking a big
risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

From what they showed of Floyd's descent (which wasn't much) it looked to
me
like he was taking it REALLY easy for him. He's got a herky-jerky style
of
cornering that mountain bikers all seem to have.

Okay, 'cause B Roll comments on his "mountain biker" style you have to
parrot it? How many pro mtb racers have you seen descending?

Not to put too fine a point on it but I watched the stage in a sports bar so
there was no sound. It's pretty difficult to parrot someone you never heard.

Also I started mountain biking in the 80's and rode Mt. Tam enough times. I
rode the Slick Rock and Crested Butte, CO. I even rode with Tomac once. What
about you?

Quoted message said:

I recall the specific hairpin that elicited Roll's comment, when Landis
really had to flick the bike from a left to right lean. At first it
looked pretty harsh, but it was due to a very quick transition from a
left to right turn. Roll's comments, which you've practically
plagiarized, made it sound like a REAL road racer wouldn't do it that
way.

Gee, MAYBE that's because a REAL (tm) road racer wouldn't have done it that
way? BTW, I did hold an international pro motorcycle road racing license for
about 5 years.

Quoted message said:

Funny thing, but 8 minutes later when the group of chasers got to the
same point, they flicked their bikes JUST LIKE Landis. Of course, it
would've made Roll look like a fool to say anything about how they
cornered, as they were all real road racers, so no comment was made.

Firstly, as far as I could see they didn't do it JUST LIKE Landis and
secondly, that only means they were doing it incorrectly as well.

Quoted message said:

I'd said earlier you only know about bike racing what you've misread.
I stand corrected. You sometimes get your misinformation from
gap-toothed former racers.

Here's a clue to the clueless - there's a reason that Savoldelli takes so
much time out of others when he's descending. Do you suppose he is somehow
breaking the laws of physics?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RonSonic said:

I saw what you saw also, but Floyd does often appear to "set the tires"
like on
a mountain bike.

Ron

Set the tires? WTF?

I think that's more than enough said.

Tom Kunich said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>I was watching Sastre final descent yesterday and I got the impression
> he was
> really holding back, as if he didn't want to blow everything by
> crashing. In fact,
> he lost almost 45 seconds on Landis in that descent. It would
> be ironic if this is where he lost the tour, that is, Landis wins by
> taking a big
> risk and Sastre loses by not taking a big risk.

From what they showed of Floyd's descent (which wasn't much) it looked to
me
like he was taking it REALLY easy for him. He's got a herky-jerky style
of
cornering that mountain bikers all seem to have.

Okay, 'cause B Roll comments on his "mountain biker" style you have to
parrot it? How many pro mtb racers have you seen descending?

Not to put too fine a point on it but I watched the stage in a sports bar so
there was no sound. It's pretty difficult to parrot someone you never heard.

Also I started mountain biking in the 80's and rode Mt. Tam enough times. I
rode the Slick Rock and Crested Butte, CO. I even rode with Tomac once. What
about you?

Gee, that's impressive. You've been riding since the 80's and once
rode w/ Tomac. I started in the 80's, too, and rode one day w/ Rishi
Grewal, another day w/ Lemond. Doesn't make me all that special.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I recall the specific hairpin that elicited Roll's comment, when Landis
really had to flick the bike from a left to right lean. At first it
looked pretty harsh, but it was due to a very quick transition from a
left to right turn. Roll's comments, which you've practically
plagiarized, made it sound like a REAL road racer wouldn't do it that
way.

Gee, MAYBE that's because a REAL (tm) road racer wouldn't have done it that
way? BTW, I did hold an international pro motorcycle road racing license for
about 5 years.

And I've known guys who hold pro cycling licenses who can't corner or
descend for [censored].

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Funny thing, but 8 minutes later when the group of chasers got to the
same point, they flicked their bikes JUST LIKE Landis. Of course, it
would've made Roll look like a fool to say anything about how they
cornered, as they were all real road racers, so no comment was made.

Firstly, as far as I could see they didn't do it JUST LIKE Landis and
secondly, that only means they were doing it incorrectly as well.

Right, all those pros don't know what they're doing, but you know what
they should've done. Like you said, you raced motorcycles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd said earlier you only know about bike racing what you've misread.
I stand corrected. You sometimes get your misinformation from
gap-toothed former racers.

Here's a clue to the clueless - there's a reason that Savoldelli takes so
much time out of others when he's descending. Do you suppose he is somehow
breaking the laws of physics?

No, he's not breaking the laws of physics. One of the major factors
influencing a rider's ability to descend is his ability to make the
very fine tuned changes required to NOT get out of control. Another
factor is confidence. Over-reacting creates problems, which leads to
over-braking, which leads to going slower than a smoother rider. Why
don't you tell us why specifically Savoldelli descends so well?

Fred

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doesn't make me all that special.

As we've noted in your postings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gee, MAYBE that's because a REAL (tm) road racer wouldn't have done it
that
way? BTW, I did hold an international pro motorcycle road racing license
for
about 5 years.

And I've known guys who hold pro cycling licenses who can't corner or
descend for [censored].

And that's suppose to mean exactly what?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Firstly, as far as I could see they didn't do it JUST LIKE Landis and
secondly, that only means they were doing it incorrectly as well.

Right, all those pros don't know what they're doing, but you know what
they should've done.

Oh, wait - YOU know what they should have done. That's why they lost time to
Landis.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's a clue to the clueless - there's a reason that Savoldelli takes so
much time out of others when he's descending. Do you suppose he is
somehow
breaking the laws of physics?

No, he's not breaking the laws of physics. One of the major factors
influencing a rider's ability to descend is his ability to make the
very fine tuned changes required to NOT get out of control. Another
factor is confidence. Over-reacting creates problems, which leads to
over-braking, which leads to going slower than a smoother rider. Why
don't you tell us why specifically Savoldelli descends so well?

Someone named you correctly - Fred.