Sapim Spokes-

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I am intrigued, anybody have extensive experience with them?

I have had Spaim for a long time without trouble, but I think that who built the wheel is more
important then the spokes....I never had problems with Hoshi either.

Was that an answer to your question?

Greets, Derk

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

Got the 'pitch' yesterday...I am intrigued, anybody have extensive experience with them? More than
one or two wheels??

TIA-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

The only shop I know to feature Sapim as a selling point are F W Evans evanscycles.comevanscycles.comOpen ↗ .
I'm in the process of building some wheels with the CX-Ray spokes, and the first thing you notice is
they have practically no torsional stiffness, so you really need the plastic key to hold the bladed
section as you true them. At least you can instantly see how much spoke wind up you have with the
flat section.

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

KinkyCowboy said:

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

Got the 'pitch' yesterday...I am intrigued, anybody have extensive experience with them? More than
one or two wheels??

TIA-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

The only shop I know to feature Sapim as a selling point are F W Evans evanscycles.comevanscycles.comOpen ↗
. I'm in the process of building some wheels with the CX-Ray spokes, and the first thing you notice
is they have practically no torsional stiffness, so you really need the plastic key to hold the
bladed section as you true them. At least you can instantly see how much spoke wind up you have
with the flat section.

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

They seem to have switched top level domain to evanscycles.co.ukevanscycles.co.ukOpen ↗

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

yep, i've built nearly two dozen wheels [mostly mountain] with sapim spokes and have been very
happy. one pair is being used by a 270lb clydesdale who has beaten the s*** of everything else he's
ever had, and they've taken his abuse for over a year so far.

what i like most - and i'm talking from a materials viewpoint here - is that they're drawn not
hammered [d.t.] or ground [wheelsmith?] into their butted profiles. also, the spoke elbows are not
scarred in their bending process like other manufacturers. it may not seem like a big deal, but
being as most spokes break from fatigue, and this usually initiates at surface defects at the spoke
elbow, it can have a big influence on the life of the spoke. you can see this for yourself with a
magnifying glass.

the only downside in my opinion is that they are not as shiny as some of the others, but i don't
care if they're not going to break and my wheels stay true.

jb

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Got the 'pitch' yesterday...I am intrigued, anybody have extensive experience with them? More than
one or two wheels??

TIA-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

Got the 'pitch' yesterday...I am intrigued, anybody have extensive experience with them? More than
one or two wheels??

I've been using Sapim mostly for the last couple years, and couple dozen wheels. I've tried their
14/17, 14/15, and 14 straight gauge.

IMO their finish (heads, butts) is not as pretty as DT-Swiss, but it's nice enough. I think the
nipples are superior to DT's because they feature spherically curved heads. Some models are stamped
S-A-P along the spoke just below the elbow, which seems iffy to me. So far no troubles though.

They feel a little bit "softer" to me, in that they seem to bend a little easier during lacing than
DTs, but I have been able to get good consistently high tensions out of them without signs of
stretching.

Sapim "locking" nipples use some sort of irregular thread rather than being impregnated with locking
compound, if that matters to you.

In all the ways I can tell so far, Sapim make as good a spoke as DT, and the lower price makes them
a better value for my purposes.

Chalo Colina

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TlcWa.2571

Quoted message said:

what i like most - and i'm talking from a materials viewpoint here - is that they're drawn not
hammered [d.t.] or ground [wheelsmith?] into their butted profiles. also, the spoke elbows are not
scarred in their bending process like other manufacturers. it may not seem like a big deal, but
being as most spokes break from fatigue, and this usually initiates at surface defects at the
spoke elbow, it can have a big influence on the life of the spoke. you can see this for yourself
with a magnifying glass.

What? Hammered? Ground??!! All quality spokes are drawn. I guess the spoke head could be said to be
"hammered"... it's cold formed. Stress relieving the wheel removes residual manufacturing stress in
the elbow. I don't know if Sapim fewer surface defects than DT or Wheelsmith, but I wasn't aware
that it was a major problem in the first place. Here's what Jobst says about spoke forming:

Quoted message said:

Where do you folks get all this stuff. Spoke wire is drawn to its diameter in a swaging process.
"Butted" spokes are selectively swaged in their midspans, DT having what they call a patented
process that causes such a smooth transition that it is difficult to see. Others use more abrupt
methods, leaving discontinuities that are easily seen. They are all swaged, that is the diameter is
reduced by working, not material removal.

can anybody ask Jobst what he thinks?? I'm not sure he would answer me...

;-)

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Andrew Lee' whatsupandrewathotmaildotcom said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TlcWa.2571

Quoted message said:

what i like most - and i'm talking from a materials viewpoint here - is that they're drawn not
hammered [d.t.] or ground [wheelsmith?] into their butted profiles. also, the spoke elbows are
not scarred in their bending process like other manufacturers. it may not seem like a big deal,
but being as most spokes break from fatigue, and this usually initiates at surface defects at the
spoke elbow, it can have a big influence on the life of the spoke. you can see this for yourself
with a magnifying glass.

What? Hammered? Ground??!! All quality spokes are drawn. I guess the spoke head could be said to be
"hammered"... it's cold formed. Stress relieving the wheel removes residual manufacturing stress in
the elbow. I don't know if Sapim fewer surface defects than DT or Wheelsmith, but I wasn't aware
that it was a major problem in the first place. Here's what Jobst says about spoke forming:

Quoted message said:

Where do you folks get all this stuff. Spoke wire is drawn to its diameter in a swaging process.
"Butted" spokes are selectively swaged in their midspans, DT having what they call a patented
process that causes such a smooth transition that it is difficult to see. Others use more abrupt
methods, leaving discontinuities that are easily seen. They are all swaged, that is the diameter
is reduced by working, not material removal.

All due respect to both you and Jobst but swaging and drawing are different process, it is not
unreasonable to describe swaging as hammering...

efunda.comswaging.cfmOpen ↗

in order to vary a diameter in the draw process the speed that the wire is drawn through the draw
die must be varied (unless using a split die which would be inappropriate if not impossible), a
faster speed will result in a narrower diameter ... this process would also make the heading
operation more difficult..

There is another spoke maker (I can't remember which) that really does appear grind the butted
sections, there is a sharp discontinuity between the different diameters, however the cost of
grinding would be very high and I suspect they are simply flat rolled.

Actually I suspect that all spokes are flat rolled (cold rolled), it is a far less expensive process
than either grinding or swaging (if you really stretch a point you might even call it
swaging...hmmmm). it is more controllable and far more flexible, and in almost every way would
provide the same benefits as "swaging"

efunda.comcold rolling.cfmOpen ↗

FWIW drawing and swaging both have their benefits and drawbacks. From the stand point of a spoke I
think I would prefer a swaged spoke (cold rolled)... the metals crystal structure would be finer and
more uniform.

In any event there is so much "market speak" surrounding what is really a simple process it is
difficult to believe anything these manufacturers claim.