santizer recommendation?

james said:

[snip]
since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've
used ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops. [snip]

Others will probably chime in with good formulas for detergent and
bleach, but I would suggest that timeliness is your first and best
defense against cross contamination. As soon as you have finished
using your knife on chicken, wash it and put it away. Use a separate
cutting board for chicken, whether poly or wood, and as soon as you
have moved the chicken off it, wash it. If you can't, because you're
tending to the chicken in the skillet, say, at least plop the board
into the sink under running water. Then at the first opportunity, wash
it. Letting it sit around is, imho, riskier than using the wrong kind
of soap to wash it.

I usually just use dish detergent, but I don't know of any reason not
to fortify it with a little chlorine bleach. -aem

"aem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

james said:

[snip]
since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've
used ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops. [snip]

Others will probably chime in with good formulas for detergent and
bleach, but I would suggest that timeliness is your first and best
defense against cross contamination. As soon as you have finished
using your knife on chicken, wash it and put it away. Use a separate
cutting board for chicken, whether poly or wood, and as soon as you
have moved the chicken off it, wash it. If you can't, because you're
tending to the chicken in the skillet, say, at least plop the board
into the sink under running water. Then at the first opportunity, wash
it. Letting it sit around is, imho, riskier than using the wrong kind
of soap to wash it.

I usually just use dish detergent, but I don't know of any reason not
to fortify it with a little chlorine bleach. -aem

it is dangerous to add bleach to anything else, please don't do it.
ammonia//vinegar wont work because the two neutralize each other.
There are many proprietary brands of anti-bacterial sprays for surfaces in
the kitchen, but do not mix them.
cheers
Wazza

"aem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

timeliness is your first and best defense against cross
contamination. As soon as you have finished using your knife
on chicken, wash it and put it away. Use a separate cutting
board for chicken, whether poly or wood, and as soon as you
have moved the chicken off it, wash it. If you can't, because
you're tending to the chicken in the skillet, say, at least
plop the board into the sink under running water.

In my kitchen, setting a chicken-contaminated cutting board
into the sink and running water onto it would cause bacteria
to splash all over the place (e.g. onto at least the silverware
holder in the dish drainer).

My solution is to cut up chicken on the piece of butcher
paper the chicken came from the store in, the put the
butcher paper directly in the garbage.

Steve

james said:

since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've used
ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops.

is there anything you use that you make? (as opposed to store bought
cleaners with their many promises.

A quick spray with white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide from different
bottles - don't mix them in advance. Let it sit for a few moments and
wipe up. Extremely effective, no bad smells, no bad stuff to "improve"
the flavors of foods. Cheap. Usable for cutting boards (made of any
material) and anything else in the kitchen except, maybe, your paper
towels. Oh, and cats which will claw your leg for amusement after you
wet them.

Pastorio

I always get a sinkful of soapy, bleachy water before I handle any of
the chicken. Then as I use utensils etc. I put them into the water. It
also helps to sanitize my dish cloth and sponges. And you always have a
cloth to wipe the counter around your work area. Easy and cheaper than
buying stuff at the store....Sharon

aem said:

james said:

[snip]
since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've
used ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops. [snip]

Others will probably chime in with good formulas for detergent and
bleach, but I would suggest that timeliness is your first and best
defense against cross contamination. As soon as you have finished
using your knife on chicken, wash it and put it away. Use a separate
cutting board for chicken, whether poly or wood, and as soon as you
have moved the chicken off it, wash it. If you can't, because you're
tending to the chicken in the skillet, say, at least plop the board
into the sink under running water. Then at the first opportunity, wash
it. Letting it sit around is, imho, riskier than using the wrong kind
of soap to wash it.

I usually just use dish detergent, but I don't know of any reason not
to fortify it with a little chlorine bleach. -aem

"james" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hi there - i'm a lurker, but enjoy readind posts. most of my meals are
made with chicken, vegetables, soups, sauces etc. i cook a few times a
week and do batch cooking, so always have a meal to grab for work. (i
get compliments from co-workers on meals, even though i just follow
recipes, or am creative on my own with spices).

since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've used
ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops.

is there anything you use that you make? (as opposed to store bought
cleaners with their many promises.

There are several anti-bacterial agents, but only a couple that can kill
most harmful bacteria.

Note that humans tolerate small amounts of some otherwise nasty bacteria.
The problem occurs when you ingest more than that "small" for that bacteria,
so the approach is to minimize the amount ingested as much as practical.

The first thing to do in the big picure is to use fresh well-refrigerated
product taken straight from a refrigerator meat drawer, a drawer kept just
above freezing. Then bacteria have little chance to grow in the cold food
or spread in the refrigerator.

Second, minimize contamination of other areas by separating meat and poultry
preparation from ready-to-eat food preparation (fruit, vegetable, cheese,
etc.). Then any bacteria in poultry will not cross-contaminate equipment and
surfaces and get into other uncooked-when-served foods.
Use one board exclusively for meat and poultry. Rinse immediately after
use deep in the sink and avoid splashing. Avoid leaving a non-disinfected
board in soapy water for extended periods (as some bacteria can grow in the
warm medium) Clean knives well at the blade-handle edge.
(A bit of trivia on cutting surfaces: In a test from about ten years
back, it was found that after normal cleaning, the maple block counters used
in butcher shops have less bacteria than plastic cutting boards used in
newer butcher shops. Not surprising since first, it is well documented that
most plastic is porous, and second, that most woods have some inherent
alkoid anti-bacterial agents. However, it is easier to clean plastic
boards in 180F dishwashers.
Note that neither wood or plastic by itself was impervious enough not to
require disinfectant by heat or chemical when handling poultry, commercially
or otherwise).

Third, as to disinfecting surfaces and bacteria:
For purposes of their future understanding of the tools and dangers used
in their work in indutry, Chem students at the U used to do a lab experiment
using the various "disinfectants" effects on bacteria - they used sodium
hypochlorite (bleach), hydrogen peroxide (color-safe bleach), alcohol,
ammonia, vinegar, soap, detergent, and a couple other types. (My Chem major
daughter has done this experiment, and I was privy to the results)

These tests have shown that detergent (which reduces surface tension) and
water under 180 degrees do not kill most bacteria - they merely separate
them from utensils, dilute them, and wash them away.
The harmful bacteria do not grow well above 140 degrees, and humans
cannot keep hands in water over 110 F.

The only broad-band chemical disinfectant is "bleach", i.e., hypochlorite
type bleaches. Its active radicals kill almost everything organic, and even
penetrate the hard cover of spoors like those of anthrax.
Alcohol will kill most virus on contact and immersion (vs contact wiping)
kills many bacteria.
Hydrogen peroxide ("color-safe bleach"😉 is far less effective as an
anti-bacterial agent.
The other common cleaners like ammonia and vinegar are mostly wetting
agents with specific Ph-related-bacteria inhibiting properties and are weak
disinfectants at best .
---------

Since other tests have indicated that one third of chickens sold in the US
have some samlonella, a little disinfectant is a good idea.

Water and a very small amount of bleach is all that is necessary. A
little goes along way. Since bleach comes in various strengths of
hypochlorite, follow the directions on the bottle, wear gloves, and avoid
breathing fumes.

best bet: The spray disinfectants in the grocery store that contain
hypochlorite will do the job best, since they have detergents in them -
compatible detergents, unlike some dishwashing detergents with "special
chemicals" added to differentiate them, chemcials that might react with the
bleach.

CAUTION: Mixing bleach with some other cleaners releases chlorine
gas, which causes the lung tissue to chemically "burn" and then weep for
several weeks, which when inhaled in sufficient amounts slowly drowns the
person who inhaled the gas. Or the gas wil contact the liquid on the
eyeball and react and blind you.
And BTW, mixing it in the toilet and quickly flushing often releases
the gas out the vent stack in the roof, poisoning those outside and on your
sewer line.

fwiw

Quoted message said:

thanks in advance, oh and dinner tonite (and for my lunches this week):
chicken cordon blue: marinated in rasberry pecan vinagrette, spiced
and blue cheese wrapped in bacon, grilled with some mushrooms and
onions (got off foodtv)

i'm lucky that if i make something good i don't mind eating it for
lunch 3-4 days in a row!

thanks again - james...

"--" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

<Good stuff snipped for brievity>

Quoted message said:

fwiw

Good info!

Some program on the food channel had a multiple choice asking where the
most bacteria is found in the kitchen. The answer was the kitchen sponge!

I use cheap-o powder-free latex gloves to handle meat. They're also good
for cleaning firearms.

Also use various scented Chlorox wipes to clean countertops, telephones,
toilets, etc.

Andy

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, The Beatles!"
- Ed Sullivan (1964)

Goomba38 <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Andy said:

Some program on the food channel had a multiple choice asking where
the most bacteria is found in the kitchen. The answer was the kitchen
sponge!

I use cheap-o powder-free latex gloves to handle meat. They're also
good for cleaning firearms.

Also use various scented Chlorox wipes to clean countertops,
telephones, toilets, etc.

Andy

Hands are easily washed, and if you were to keep a small bowl of
soapy, 10% bleach solution in the sink to wash up with afterwards not
only would you be saving money not buying disposible wipes, you'd also
aave the landfill from more unnecessary garbage. AND your sponge would
get cleaned up as you put it into the soapy/bleach water. Just don't
let it sit there a long time as it tears the sponges up.
Goomba

Goomba,

Heh heh. OK. I quit smoking last year, so I've been doing my share to
save the poor landfills, although by their very nature, aren't meant to
be "saved."

Andy

--
"What can possibly go wrong... go wrong... go wrong..."
- Pop

Andy said:

Some program on the food channel had a multiple choice asking where the
most bacteria is found in the kitchen. The answer was the kitchen sponge!

I use cheap-o powder-free latex gloves to handle meat. They're also good
for cleaning firearms.

Also use various scented Chlorox wipes to clean countertops, telephones,
toilets, etc.

Andy

Hands are easily washed, and if you were to keep a small bowl of soapy,
10% bleach solution in the sink to wash up with afterwards not only
would you be saving money not buying disposible wipes, you'd also aave
the landfill from more unnecessary garbage. AND your sponge would get
cleaned up as you put it into the soapy/bleach water. Just don't let it
sit there a long time as it tears the sponges up.
Goomba

"Wazza" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've
used ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops. [snip]

I usually just use dish detergent, but I don't know of any reason not
to fortify it with a little chlorine bleach. -aem

it is dangerous to add bleach to anything else, please don't do it.
ammonia//vinegar wont work because the two neutralize each other.
There are many proprietary brands of anti-bacterial sprays for surfaces in
the kitchen, but do not mix them.
cheers
Wazza

That's just plain silly. There is no good reason not to add bleach to
detergent, other than the fact it's unnecessary. Detergent makers do it all
the time. Bleach is sodium hypochlorite, not far removed from table salt.
The excess chlorine will dissipate quickly enough. But soap and water is
usually more than adequate. The flood of "anti-bacterial sprays" on the
market is nothing more than a false market created by marketing companies
that instill, then play on, fear of bacteria. Get over it.

Scott.

-- said:

"james" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hi there - i'm a lurker, but enjoy readind posts. most of my meals are
made with chicken, vegetables, soups, sauces etc. i cook a few times a
week and do batch cooking, so always have a meal to grab for work. (i
get compliments from co-workers on meals, even though i just follow
recipes, or am creative on my own with spices).

since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've used
ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops.

is there anything you use that you make? (as opposed to store bought
cleaners with their many promises.

There are several anti-bacterial agents, but only a couple that can kill
most harmful bacteria.

Note that humans tolerate small amounts of some otherwise nasty bacteria.
The problem occurs when you ingest more than that "small" for that bacteria,
so the approach is to minimize the amount ingested as much as practical.

The first thing to do in the big picure is to use fresh well-refrigerated
product taken straight from a refrigerator meat drawer, a drawer kept just
above freezing. Then bacteria have little chance to grow in the cold food
or spread in the refrigerator.

Growing new ones isn't so much the question. They already come with
them, and in startling amounts. The reality is that cooking the chicken
above 140°F essentially sterilizes it.

Handling surfaces need to be cleaned, of course, as do the utensils and
equipment used to process chicken - and all meats. Look at the URL's
below to see what the real science about it all is.

Quoted message said:

Second, minimize contamination of other areas by separating meat and poultry
preparation from ready-to-eat food preparation (fruit, vegetable, cheese,
etc.). Then any bacteria in poultry will not cross-contaminate equipment and
surfaces and get into other uncooked-when-served foods.
Use one board exclusively for meat and poultry. Rinse immediately after
use deep in the sink and avoid splashing.

Unnecessary. A plastic board run through the full cycle of a dishwasher
will be fine for anything after washing. Between the extremely caustic
detergents and the temperature of the wash and rinse waters, the board
is as sterile as a kitchen can support.

Quoted message said:

Avoid leaving a non-disinfected
board in soapy water for extended periods (as some bacteria can grow in the
warm medium) Clean knives well at the blade-handle edge.
(A bit of trivia on cutting surfaces: In a test from about ten years
back, it was found that after normal cleaning, the maple block counters used
in butcher shops have less bacteria than plastic cutting boards used in
newer butcher shops. Not surprising since first, it is well documented that
most plastic is porous, and second, that most woods have some inherent
alkoid anti-bacterial agents. However, it is easier to clean plastic
boards in 180F dishwashers.

This business about wood and plastic and bacteriostatic properties has
long since been debunked. It's still online all over the place, mostly
on sites that sell wooden cutting boards.

Quoted message said:

Note that neither wood or plastic by itself was impervious enough not to
require disinfectant by heat or chemical when handling poultry, commercially
or otherwise).

Quoted message said:

Third, as to disinfecting surfaces and bacteria:
For purposes of their future understanding of the tools and dangers used
in their work in indutry, Chem students at the U used to do a lab experiment
using the various "disinfectants" effects on bacteria - they used sodium
hypochlorite (bleach), hydrogen peroxide (color-safe bleach), alcohol,
ammonia, vinegar, soap, detergent, and a couple other types. (My Chem major
daughter has done this experiment, and I was privy to the results)

These tests have shown that detergent (which reduces surface tension) and
water under 180 degrees do not kill most bacteria - they merely separate
them from utensils, dilute them, and wash them away.
The harmful bacteria do not grow well above 140 degrees, and humans
cannot keep hands in water over 110 F.

Rather stringent tests conducted by a food science group don't support
that. <http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Cutboard.html>

Quoted message said:

The only broad-band chemical disinfectant is "bleach", i.e., hypochlorite
type bleaches. Its active radicals kill almost everything organic, and even
penetrate the hard cover of spoors like those of anthrax.
Alcohol will kill most virus on contact and immersion (vs contact wiping)
kills many bacteria.
Hydrogen peroxide ("color-safe bleach"😉 is far less effective as an
anti-bacterial agent.
The other common cleaners like ammonia and vinegar are mostly wetting
agents with specific Ph-related-bacteria inhibiting properties and are weak
disinfectants at best .

Not so. <http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Countertops.html>

About sanitizing foods, most notably, produce,
"It doesn't matter which you use first - you can spray with the vinegar
then the hydrogen peroxide, or with the hydrogen peroxide followed by
the vinegar. You won't get any lingering taste of vinegar or hydrogen
peroxide, and neither is toxic to you if a small amount remains on the
produce."

But the writer goes on to say,
"As a bonus: The paired sprays work exceptionally well in sanitizing
counters and other food preparation surfaces -- including wood cutting
boards. In tests run at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State
University, pairing the two mists killed virtually all Salmonella,
Shigella, or E. coli bacteria on heavily contaminated food and surfaces
when used in this fashion, making this spray combination more effective
at killing these potentially lethal bacteria than chlorine bleach or any
commercially available kitchen cleaner."
<http://my.execpc.com/~mjstouff/articles/vinegar.html>
[References: Science News 9/29/96; Science News 8/8/98].

Pastorio

Quoted message said:

Since other tests have indicated that one third of chickens sold in the US
have some samlonella, a little disinfectant is a good idea.

Water and a very small amount of bleach is all that is necessary. A
little goes along way. Since bleach comes in various strengths of
hypochlorite, follow the directions on the bottle, wear gloves, and avoid
breathing fumes.

best bet: The spray disinfectants in the grocery store that contain
hypochlorite will do the job best, since they have detergents in them -
compatible detergents, unlike some dishwashing detergents with "special
chemicals" added to differentiate them, chemcials that might react with the
bleach.

CAUTION: Mixing bleach with some other cleaners releases chlorine
gas, which causes the lung tissue to chemically "burn" and then weep for
several weeks, which when inhaled in sufficient amounts slowly drowns the
person who inhaled the gas. Or the gas wil contact the liquid on the
eyeball and react and blind you.
And BTW, mixing it in the toilet and quickly flushing often releases
the gas out the vent stack in the roof, poisoning those outside and on your
sewer line.

fwiw

Quoted message said:

thanks in advance, oh and dinner tonite (and for my lunches this week):
chicken cordon blue: marinated in rasberry pecan vinagrette, spiced
and blue cheese wrapped in bacon, grilled with some mushrooms and
onions (got off foodtv)

i'm lucky that if i make something good i don't mind eating it for
lunch 3-4 days in a row!

thanks again - james...

james said:

hi there - i'm a lurker, but enjoy readind posts. most of my meals

are

Quoted message said:

made with chicken, vegetables, soups, sauces etc. i cook a few times

a

Quoted message said:

week and do batch cooking, so always have a meal to grab for work. (i
get compliments from co-workers on meals, even though i just follow
recipes, or am creative on my own with spices).

since i cook with raw chicken often, what is a good easy to make
kitchen santizer? i've used a small amount of bleach/water, i've

used

Quoted message said:

ammonia/water/vinegar, but want the best for getting rid of any
possible bacteria on countertops.

is there anything you use that you make? (as opposed to store bought
cleaners with their many promises.

Ordinary hot soapy water is your friend. And It's not practical to
sterilize your entire kitchen nor is it necessary... simply wash the
food prep surfaces as well as you wash your hands (no point making
surfaces cleaner than the hands that will be touching the food), and
keep all surfaces dry, moisture promotes bactarial growth. Wash cutting
boards immediately after use and whenever possible further sanitize by
exposing them to UV rays... and the last I checked sunlight is still
free... let as much sunlight and fresh air into your kitchen as
possible too. Do NOT spray anything with clorine, not unless you are
willing to wear a respirator and proctective clothing.

Sheldon