Australia and New Zealand · Public discussion

Sandbagging at HCC crits

Bleve · 2006-11-02T03:12:15+00:00

HCC ran their first crit for 2006/2007 summer, it was good to see a few familiar faces, and generally the racing was good, apart from the usual first time out for the summertime riders jitters and crashes and a couple of A graders with heads buried somewhere dark who wanted to shave the ambulance when it was on the course. *but* D grade was another story. A very small number of riders who were obviously too strong broke D grade up in the first 5 minutes or so, ruining the race for the rest of D grade. One in particular, a certain Ben MacNee from Brunswick CC, who won D grade last night, got 5th in B grade at Glenvale 3 weeks ago : http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/AUS/2006/oct06/oct30cccc Ben MacNee has, in the past 4 weeks, won at Glenvale : D grade, C grade, and placed 5th in B grade. This is not the results that would suggest it right that he enter D grade at an HCC crit. In the past at Glenvale we've removed riders mid-race who were obviously mis-graded and blowing the lower grade bunches to pieces, hopefully HCC will consider the same course of action for this season. It's normal to have a bit of sorting out of grades early on in the season, but what happened yesterday evening was just plain wrong. This is not a reflection on the grading process (although it's been broken for years) but rather on the integrity and honour of the people who nominate their grade, despite knowing full well that it's the wrong grade for them.

Started by Bleve · 2 November 2006 · Last activity 3 November 2006 · 47 posts · 3,174 views

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Original section: Australia and New Zealand
Published: 2 November 2006
Last activity: 3 November 2006
Original author: Bleve
Posts: 47
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 3,174
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Race licensing

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Original post
Bleve
Archived post

2 November 2006, 03:12 UTC #1

HCC ran their first crit for 2006/2007 summer, it was good to see a
few familiar faces, and generally the racing was good, apart from the
usual first time out for the summertime riders jitters and crashes and
a couple of A graders with heads buried somewhere dark who wanted to
shave the ambulance when it was on the course.
*but*
D grade was another story. A very small number of riders who were
obviously too strong broke D grade up in the first 5 minutes or so,
ruining the race for the rest of D grade.
One in particular, a certain Ben MacNee from Brunswick CC, who won D
grade last night, got 5th in B grade at Glenvale 3 weeks ago :
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/AUS/2006/oct06/oct30cccc
Ben MacNee has, in the past 4 weeks, won at Glenvale : D grade, C
grade, and placed 5th in B grade. This is not the results that would
suggest it right that he enter D grade at an HCC crit.
In the past at Glenvale we've removed riders mid-race who were
obviously mis-graded and blowing the lower grade bunches to pieces,
hopefully HCC will consider the same course of action for this season.
It's normal to have a bit of sorting out of grades early on in the
season, but what happened yesterday evening was just plain wrong. This
is not a reflection on the grading process (although it's been broken
for years) but rather on the integrity and honour of the people who
nominate their grade, despite knowing full well that it's the wrong
grade for them.

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Bean Long
Archived post

2 November 2006, 04:00 UTC #2

Bleve said:
D grade was another story. A very small number of riders who were
obviously too strong broke D grade up in the first 5 minutes or so,
ruining the race for the rest of D grade.
I think this is another factor that killed me last night. I rode home
with a guy who raced in D as well... he sat on the wheel of the eventual
winner who had apparently been in B last year. He took the race out at
a fierce pace and I think I got burnt too early.
--
Bean
"I've got a bike
You can ride it if you like
It's got a basket
A bell that rings
And things to make it look good
I'd give it to you if I could
But I borrowed it" Pink Floyd
Remove "yourfinger" before replying

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Shabby
Archived post

2 November 2006, 04:05 UTC #3

Next time make sure his name is included in the title of the thread....
Surely CSV would be interested to hear about this.... anyone placing in B grade at Glenvale knows what grade they should be racing in.

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Bleve
Archived post

2 November 2006, 04:07 UTC #4

Bean Long said:
Bleve said:
D grade was another story. A very small number of riders who were
obviously too strong broke D grade up in the first 5 minutes or so,
ruining the race for the rest of D grade.
I think this is another factor that killed me last night. I rode home
with a guy who raced in D as well... he sat on the wheel of the eventual
winner who had apparently been in B last year. He took the race out at
a fierce pace and I think I got burnt too early.
If you're sure of this, name & shame them. And also, make an issue of
it to the race entry people. At Glenvale and Sandown, Lorraine
Collings has the following policy :
Gradings
All riders will start the new season racing in the grade they were
racing at the end of the 05/06 season, or higher. Riders who believe
they no longer have the ability to race at that level must notify
CCCC's Chief Handicapper, Lorraine Collings, in writing prior to racing
with the reasons behind their request
This generally works pretty well, when the h'capper knows the riders
anyway.

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Unregistered
Archived post

2 November 2006, 04:14 UTC #5

Bleve said:
HCC ran their first crit for 2006/2007 summer, ...
Don't hold back Carl, tell us what you really thought 🙂
At least this helps explain why D-grade ran at pretty much the same speed as C (36kph avg) and why it felt so 'kn hard ....
Do you happen to know how many partners in crime Mr MacNee dragged with him to the finish? - it was hard to tell from the group behind, what with being busy chewing on the bars an'all

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Bleve
Archived post

2 November 2006, 04:39 UTC #6

Unregistered said:
Bleve said:
HCC ran their first crit for 2006/2007 summer, ...
Don't hold back Carl, tell us what you really thought 🙂
At least this helps explain why D-grade ran at pretty much the same
speed as C (36kph avg) and why it felt so 'kn hard ....
It was way too fast for D grade, yes.
Quoted message said:
Do you happen to know how many partners in crime Mr MacNee dragged with
him to the finish? - it was hard to tell from the group behind, what
with being busy chewing on the bars an'all
7 in that break for most of it before it blew up again in the last
couple of laps. I'm sorry we didn't do a better job of preventing it,
it ruined your race. Unfortunately, as it stands at the moment there
is no consistent grading system in place and this will always happen as
the gradings are generally done in good faith. It's complicated by
MacNee being a junior and the race officials not knowing his (or anyone
else's really....) history.

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Bean Long
Archived post

2 November 2006, 04:41 UTC #7

Bleve said:
If you're sure of this, name & shame them. And also, make an issue of
it to the race entry people. At Glenvale and Sandown, Lorraine
I was speaking to the race organiser this morning and she said she knew
"exactly who the guy was AND which grade he was racing in next week" :-)
--
Bean
"I've got a bike
You can ride it if you like
It's got a basket
A bell that rings
And things to make it look good
I'd give it to you if I could
But I borrowed it" Pink Floyd
Remove "yourfinger" before replying

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Unregistered
Archived post

2 November 2006, 05:27 UTC #8

quote='Bleve'Unregistered said:
Bleve said:
HCC ran their first crit for 2006/2007 summer, ...
Don't hold back Carl, tell us what you really thought 🙂
At least this helps explain why D-grade ran at pretty much the same
speed as C (36kph avg) and why it felt so 'kn hard ....
It was way too fast for D grade, yes.
Quoted message said:
Do you happen to know how many partners in crime Mr MacNee dragged with
him to the finish? - it was hard to tell from the group behind, what
with being busy chewing on the bars an'all
7 in that break for most of it before it blew up again in the last
couple of laps.[/QUOTE]
ummm... that might make me a partner in crime I think - not sure, it all got pretty confused after the fall at the hairpin - but in defence m'lud it was my first HCC crit and I was just doing whatever I could to hang on
Bleve said:
I'm sorry we didn't do a better job of preventing it,
it ruined your race. Unfortunately, as it stands at the moment there
is no consistent grading system in place and this will always happen as
the gradings are generally done in good faith. It's complicated by
MacNee being a junior and the race officials not knowing his (or anyone
else's really....) history.
Thanks anyway for explaining wtf was going on and bringing it to public attention. It's one thing someone suspecting they might be a bit strong for the grade they've entered but not really knowing, it's completely another if they've already won in a higher grade this season.
Perhaps the guy should be asked to return his prizemoney AND forced to start in A Grade next week to give him a taste of his own medicine

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Bleve
Archived post

2 November 2006, 05:40 UTC #9

Unregistered wrote:
[chomp]
Quoted message said:
Thanks anyway for explaining wtf was going on and bringing it to public
attention. It's one thing someone _suspecting_ they might be a bit
strong for the grade they've entered but not really knowing, it's
completely another if they've already *won* in a higher grade this
season.
Yes.
Quoted message said:
Perhaps the guy should be asked to return his prizemoney AND forced to
start in A Grade next week to give him a taste of his own medicine
The former I have already suggested to the organisers, and as a bare
minimum I'd think that was fair, but personally, I'd like to see him
suspended from racing for a month or so. It's not my decision, that's
just an opinion. I'm just there as a safety marshal more than anything
else, mainly to try and reduce the risk of inter-grade incidents and to
try and give a few errant D graders some tips in terms of race manners
etc to make it safer for everyone.

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Tamyka Bell
Archived post

2 November 2006, 05:44 UTC #10

Bleve said:

Unregistered wrote:
[chomp]
Quoted message said:
Thanks anyway for explaining wtf was going on and bringing it to public
attention. It's one thing someone _suspecting_ they might be a bit
strong for the grade they've entered but not really knowing, it's
completely another if they've already *won* in a higher grade this
season.
Yes.
Agreed. But even so, if I _suspected_ before the race that I
might be a bit strong for the grade I've entered, I'd try to
change. And if I didn't realise until the race was already
underway, I'd be too damn embarrassed to head off the front,
blowing the field apart, etc. I'd sit near the front of the
bunch, do plenty of turns, join a breakaway but not try to
start one myself, etc.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Perhaps the guy should be asked to return his prizemoney AND forced to
start in A Grade next week to give him a taste of his own medicine
The former I have already suggested to the organisers, and as a bare
minimum I'd think that was fair, but personally, I'd like to see him
suspended from racing for a month or so. It's not my decision, that's
just an opinion. I'm just there as a safety marshal more than anything
else, mainly to try and reduce the risk of inter-grade incidents and to
try and give a few errant D graders some tips in terms of race manners
etc to make it safer for everyone.
I hope they take your opinion seriously - it'd serve as a
good deterrant for others.
Tam

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Wilchemy
Archived post

2 November 2006, 05:50 UTC #11

I note that in the handicappers notes on results section of HCC website that said rider has been bumped to B grade for future races.

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Unregistered
Archived post

2 November 2006, 05:50 UTC #12

Bleve said:
[chomp] I'm just there as a safety marshal more than anything
else, mainly to try and reduce the risk of inter-grade incidents and to
try and give a few errant D graders some tips in terms of race manners
etc to make it safer for everyone.
And can I sincerely thank you on behalf of all the participants for doing just that - fantastic work Carl!

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Bleve
Archived post

2 November 2006, 05:51 UTC #13

Tamyka Bell said:
I hope they take your opinion seriously - it'd serve as a
good deterrant for others.
I doubt that it would, but it might serve as a deterrent for him.

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Bleve
Archived post

2 November 2006, 06:02 UTC #14

Unregistered said:
Bleve said:
[chomp] I'm just there as a safety marshal more than anything
else, mainly to try and reduce the risk of inter-grade incidents and
to
try and give a few errant D graders some tips in terms of race manners
etc to make it safer for everyone.
And can I sincerely thank you on behalf of all the participants for
doing just that - fantastic work Carl!
Thankyou, but remember that my job is an easy one, it's the people
doing the entries, organising all the permits etc that have the hard
job to do. Be sure to thank them as they make a much bigger
contribution than I do.

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Bleve
Archived post

2 November 2006, 06:07 UTC #15

Bean Long said:
Bleve said:
If you're sure of this, name & shame them. And also, make an issue of
it to the race entry people. At Glenvale and Sandown, Lorraine
I was speaking to the race organiser this morning and she said she knew
"exactly who the guy was AND which grade he was racing in next week" :-)
That's a good result.

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Paulie-AU
Archived post

2 November 2006, 06:17 UTC #16

At the Balmoral Crits (Bris) we have had a junior insistent on Blowing D Grade to pieces at the beginning and again about 3 laps from the finish. For the rest of the race he hides down the back. It would be great if they moved him on.
Takes a bit of fun out of it. 😠

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Tamyka Bell
Archived post

2 November 2006, 06:26 UTC #17

Paulie-AU said:

At the Balmoral Crits (Bris) we have had a junior insistent on Blowing D
Grade to pieces at the beginning and again about 3 laps from the finish.
For the rest of the race he hides down the back. It would be great if
they moved him on.
Takes a bit of fun out of it. 😠
--
Paulie-AU
It's annoying at the finish, but it could be fun at the
start - we really should talk more in D Grade. When he
takes off at the start, we point him out to the other D
graders. Let him solo breakaway, or with one or two others.
Let him fatigue. Then pick up the bunch pace high enough
that we blow past him faster than he can recover to catch
on. Work hard as a bunch, lap him. Goodbye. Should work
really nicely on the weekend of Southbank Crits, with low
race numbers.
T

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Tamyka Bell
Archived post

2 November 2006, 06:27 UTC #18

Paulie-AU said:

At the Balmoral Crits (Bris) we have had a junior insistent on Blowing D
Grade to pieces at the beginning and again about 3 laps from the finish.
For the rest of the race he hides down the back. It would be great if
they moved him on.
Takes a bit of fun out of it. 😠
--
Paulie-AU
Oh and by the way, Lotte really needs that new bike...
T

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Paulie-AU
Archived post

2 November 2006, 06:37 UTC #19

Tamyka Bell said:
Paulie-AU wrote:
Oh and by the way, Lotte really needs that new bike...
T

I have found a bling MTB. If I bought 2 I am sure I could get hers at a price she is happy with. 😄

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gplama
Archived post

2 November 2006, 06:44 UTC #20

Unregistered said:

Perhaps the guy should be asked to return his prizemoney AND forced to start in A Grade next week to give him a taste of his own medicine
No! We don't want him getting in our way.. send him to B 🙂

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