"Safety Cam" Initiative

Lots of interesting possibilities with new digital photo
technology.

The recording system you describe would be interesting,
although I haven't figured out the swivel tracking system
yet. Maybe the answer is not a swiveling camera, since it
would almost require a tracking device to be really
effective, but an entire set of small cameras to cover rear,
side and front.

Meanwhile the monitor for a rear facing system like this
might serve as a rearview mirror.

I am thinking that the camera companies don't make this
stuff. If you could track down the people who do it for
police cars, that might point you in the right direction.
BTW the police systems are really expensive.

John Riley

"Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop
camera to catch drivers harassing them. After just having
a car full of teenagers swerve at me (while the passengers
gawked) so obviously the driver couldn't merge down the
road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the driver
charged if I had video. Better yet, when I catch up with
these people, they often open their mouth and basically
admit what they just did, by at least saying something
like: "you should be on the sidewalk" (establishing
motive).

SNIP

Sounds like a great idea, Robert.

Its probably out of my 'low budget' price range but it is
something I believe that I would find good use for.

Goos luck.

Lewis.

Helmet mounting would make a good reason for one and obviate
'swiveling'.

Mirror split screen will obviate 'rearward camera'.

Wide angle lens.

A local attorney specializing in DUI defense instigated
legislation mandating LEO's dash cameras - without any
consideration for the costs. I understand LEOs love 'em.

"john riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
| Lots of interesting possibilities with new digital photo
| technology.
|
| The recording system you describe would be interesting,
| although I haven't figured out the swivel tracking system
| yet. Maybe the answer is not a swiveling camera, since it
| would almost require a tracking device to be really
| effective, but an entire set of small cameras to cover
| rear, side and front.
|
| Meanwhile the monitor for a rear facing system like this
| might serve as a rearview mirror.
|
| I am thinking that the camera companies don't make this
| stuff. If you could track down the people who do it for
| police cars, that might point you in the right direction.
| BTW the police systems are really expensive.
|
| John Riley

In article <[email hidden]> Lewis

Campbell said:

Sounds like a great idea, Robert.

Its probably out of my 'low budget' price range but it is
something I believe that I would find good use for.

Goos luck.

Lewis.

I agree, and not just for cyclists - I can think of other
users of the cam that would find it useful.

As far as pricewise - there are some pretty inexpensive
digital cams out there. I just purchased an AIPTEK pen cam
with 1.3 mp resolution for putting in an RC plane. Cost was
about $60, and it's capable of doing 320x240 res video at
something like 15 fps till it runs out of memory. I know
they make a higher end version that can use external memory
up to 256Mb. They are also small and light. So these might
be a good basis for a helmet mounted camera.

The downside is that if you are continuously running video,
and doing some sort of FIFO to a memory chip, you're going
to use a lot of power. Looking at the specs for some of the
higher end digital cams that I've considered buying for
other purposes it's typical to burn something like 550 ma
(1/2 an amp) during the write cycle to the memory. You'd be
doing that more or less continuosly, so the drain would be
the equivalent of a 3w, 6volt light on the bike in terms of
battery drain. You'd be much better off at this point in the
technology to just trigger it for specific events and record
for a few moments at a time.

Cameras themselves can be pretty cheap - a decent, mini
(matchbook sized)
b/w camera is only $20 and can run off a 9 volt battery and
produces video (NTSC) output. A pair of these on the front
and back of the helmet would be cheap enough. To go color
costs about $60. It's the storing and cycling of the data
that's going to be hard to do. Still someone will crack
that at some point. But you could probably buy a pen cam
capable of low res video and audio with an extra memory
card for under $120 these days, cheaper soon, and just
wear it as a helmet cam and push the button when you want
to record something.

This basic idea was included in David Brin's book "Earth"
where he postulated folks ubiquitously wearing sunglasses
equipped with cameras to capture video called "Tru Vues" I
think. The idea was that they were so widely available and
distributed, that in any crowd some folks would be wearing
them and think to push the button and start recording for
evidence against assailants, goverment miscounduct, traffic
accidents, etc. I guess we're there.

Such cameras already exist.

slashdot.orgarticle.plOpen ↗
read&tid=152&tid=158&tid=173&tid=185&tid=187&tid=99

There are several referenced throughout the comments that
you can buy right now!

Like this one...

mydejaview.comindex.htmOpen ↗

Gabe

"Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
arthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop
camera to catch drivers harassing them. After just having
a car full of teenagers swerve

at

Quoted message said:

me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver
couldn't merge

down

Quoted message said:

the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the
driver charged if I had video. Better yet, when I catch up
with these people, they often open their mouth and
basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
something like: "you should be on the sidewalk"
(establishing motive).

Good video would obviously meant the difference between
this jerk laughing it up with his friends and having his
license revoked and facing assault with a deadly weapon.

So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of
their memory cards already). I figure aside from making
some money, imagine the effect of

just

Quoted message said:

a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them
rolling the tape

on

Quoted message said:

TV.

I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could
contact the camera makers for such cameras. I'm emailing
them, too. If you think you would like such a product (it
would also work as a conventional digital camera) let them
know too.

MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus 400,
and have two Xd memory chips I would like to put to
further use. Aside from a new market for your products, a
"safety cam" that recorded a constant video and sound loop
until you stopped it would be great public relations work.

"Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal
maneuvers and

endanger

Quoted message said:

other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or
handlebar mounted

camera

Quoted message said:

that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when we
selected, this would be a powerful tool for road safety.
With well publicized use of these, aggressive drivers
would have to consider that their behavior might be
recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would be a
powerful disincentive. Cyclists in particular would love
this. "Road Ragers" harass cyclists

by

Quoted message said:

swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or
parked cars, throwing things at them, yelling or honking
loudly just as they pass, etc. Some have deliberately
rammed cyclists. These drivers (who are probably the same
self-righteous lot that make driving so aggravating)
think it is fun, but the cyclist who sees a rear view
mirror full of grill doesn't know whether the guy will
hit them, accidentally or not. By the definition of the
law, this is assault with a deadly weapon (though not
with intent to kill).

We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with a
handlebar mount and a video loop mode. It would stop
recording when we stop it, or an accident tips the
bike and knocks it loose. The mount should also
pivot,

so

Quoted message said:

as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such
as the driver or passenger looking back to see the effects
of their behavior (an obvious giveaway compared to the
careless driver who just misjudged the cyclist's speed.
For example, last week a teenager swerved at me while his
three passengers gawked. He was so busy swerving to the
right of the road; he wound up not merging down the road.
This would have easily been recorded. Right now, instead
of laughing it up with his friends, he would be facing
certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing the
Prosecutor had video of his driving. Believe it or not, it
is typically easy to get these people to admit it when you
catch up with them. For example (if I even get a word in
before they start) I ask: "What was that all about"
Instead of an apology or ignorance, they say: "You
shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on

the

Quoted message said:

sidewalk". Now imagine how such people would behave once
news stories of them endangering motorists, cyclists, or
even pedestrians (complete with

footage)

Quoted message said:

got out? You would be doing a great service if you
modified one of your small, inexpensive digital cameras
for this. I would also like to have a

cheaper,

Quoted message said:

1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would
also be good just

to

Quoted message said:

have running if you saw something interesting.

Thank you

--
Robert Haston Satellite Beach, FL

Great information!

The dejaview seems darn close, just pretty pricey right now.

As to the mount, just make it an option, just like we do
with mirrors and lights.

I would just like one that you could use all that expensive
memory we have bought.

I just figure the major manufacturers must be brought in if
we want them cheap and allow use of their $$$ memory chips.

"Gabriel DeVault" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Such cameras already exist.

slashdot.orgarticle.plOpen ↗
read&tid=152&tid=158&tid=173&tid=185&tid=187&tid=99

Quoted message said:

There are several referenced throughout the comments that
you can buy

right

Quoted message said:

now!

Like this one...

mydejaview.comindex.htmOpen ↗

Gabe

"Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
arthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop
camera to catch drivers harassing them. After just
having a car full of teenagers

swerve

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver
couldn't merge

down

Quoted message said:

the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the
driver charged if

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these
people, they often

open

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by
at least saying something like: "you should be on the
sidewalk" (establishing motive).

Good video would obviously meant the difference between
this jerk

laughing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it up with his friends and having his license revoked
and facing assault with a deadly weapon.

So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of
their memory cards already). I figure aside from making
some money, imagine the effect of

just

Quoted message said:

a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them
rolling the tape

on

Quoted message said:

TV.

I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could
contact the camera makers for such cameras. I'm emailing
them, too. If you think you

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like such a product (it would also work as a
conventional digital

camera)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

let them know too.

MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus
400, and have two

Xd

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

memory chips I would like to put to further use. Aside
from a new

market

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for your products, a "safety cam" that recorded a
constant video and

sound

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

loop until you stopped it would be great public
relations work.

"Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal
maneuvers and

endanger

Quoted message said:

other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or
handlebar mounted

camera

Quoted message said:

that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when
we selected, this would be a powerful tool for road
safety. With well publicized use of these, aggressive
drivers would have to consider that their behavior

might

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would
be a powerful disincentive. Cyclists in particular would
love this. "Road Ragers" harass

cyclists

Quoted message said:

by

Quoted message said:

swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or
parked cars,
throwing things at them, yelling or honking loudly just
as they pass,

etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some have deliberately rammed cyclists. These drivers
(who are probably the same self-righteous lot that make
driving so aggravating) think it is fun, but the cyclist
who sees a rear view mirror full of grill doesn't know
whether the guy will hit them, accidentally or not. By
the definition of the law, this is assault with

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

deadly weapon (though not with intent to kill).

We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with
a handlebar

mount

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and a video loop mode. It would stop recording when we
stop it, or an accident tips the bike and knocks it
loose. The mount should also

pivot,

Quoted message said:

so

Quoted message said:

as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such
as the driver

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

passenger looking back to see the effects of their
behavior (an obvious giveaway compared to the careless
driver who just misjudged the

cyclist's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speed. For example, last week a teenager swerved at me
while his three passengers gawked. He was so busy
swerving to the right of the road; he wound up not
merging down the road. This would have easily been

recorded.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right now, instead of laughing it up with his friends,
he would be

facing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing
the Prosecutor

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

video of his driving. Believe it or not, it is typically
easy to get these people to admit

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when you catch up with them. For example (if I even get
a word in before they start) I ask: "What was that all
about" Instead of an apology or ignorance, they say:
"You shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on

the

Quoted message said:

sidewalk". Now imagine how such people would behave once
news stories of them endangering motorists, cyclists, or
even pedestrians (complete with

footage)

Quoted message said:

got out? You would be doing a great service if you
modified one of your small, inexpensive digital cameras
for this. I would also like to have a

cheaper,

Quoted message said:

1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would
also be good

just

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

have running if you saw something interesting.

Thank you

--
Robert Haston Satellite Beach, FL

Robert states:"I just figure the major manufacturers must be
brought in if we want them cheap and allow use of their $$$
memory chips."

To which I reply, we also need volume to attract
manufacturers to such a product. Take all the recumbent
riders [censored] at car and truck drivers and I'm afraid the
potential still falls short

Tom

Just in from a close encounter. Young guys, two lane road
heavy on the horn. When I stopped got off the bike and
hollered "Just exactly what the F*** do you want??" He
stopped honking rolled up the windows, gave me the finger
and took off.

Can we edit the sound to omit our own cursing?? It does
sound soooo tacky after the fact.

T

"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Robert states:"I just figure the major manufacturers must
be brought in if we want them cheap and allow use of their
$$$ memory chips."

To which I reply, we also need volume to attract
manufacturers to such a product. Take all the recumbent
riders [censored] at car and truck drivers and I'm afraid the
potential still falls short

[...]

Yeah, but what about car drivers worried about road rage and
accident documentation?

There has been some talk about "black boxes" (flight data
recorders) for cars that would record several parameters
that could be used in accident analysis. Of course it could
be self-incriminating, so I am not sure how far it has gone.

Point is, reading the article (two links in) it seems like
HP doesn't know what they have. There was no indication
that they saw any application for the technology in
personal security.

John Riley

Quoted message said:

"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Robert states:"I just figure the major manufacturers must
be brought in if we want them cheap and allow use of
their $$$ memory chips."

I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night.
320x240x40 frames of black & white would cost about £20 in
SRAM memory chips. I'd have thought this might be enough -
especially as there are video digitiser chips available that
include real-time compression.

Video cameras can have quite high current consumption -
about 200ma @5-12V for some of the ones I'm familiar with. A
system including a camera and digitiser might eat as many
batteries or as much dynamo-power as a headlight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To which I reply, we also need volume to attract
manufacturers to such a product. Take all the recumbent
riders [censored] at car and truck drivers and I'm afraid the
potential still falls short

[...]

I had a similar idea a few years back.

google.co.ukgroupsOpen ↗
google.com&rnum=6&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-
8%26q%3D%2Bvideo%2B%2522Kit%2Bwolf%2522%26btnG%3DSearch

I have since heard of so-called 'digital chaperones' for
healthcare workers. I can think of a thousand reasons why
they don't seem to have caught on... I think a black-box for
bikes and cars seems a far preferable application of this
technology.

But would an accident video be admissable as evidence? When
I worked in a medical photography dept. we had a top-notch
digital camera, but it never got used for medico-legal work
because of the worry that digital pictures can be tampered
with so easily. On the other hand, if a photographic record
led to the police being able to find a hit & run driver
with scratches all over their car, I guess it would have
done its job.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but what about car drivers worried about road rage
and accident documentation?

There has been some talk about "black boxes" (flight data
recorders) for cars that would record several parameters
that could be used in accident analysis. Of course it
could be self-incriminating, so I am not sure how far it
has gone.

Point is, reading the article (two links in) it seems like
HP doesn't know what they have. There was no indication
that they saw any application for the technology in
personal security.

I wonder what the privacy / civil liberties / wider
issues are?

A few possible scenarios:

Your black-box runs out of batteries, but the guilty party's
insurer's know that it was installed on your bike. They
argue your failure to produce its evidence is suggestive of
liability.

Someone sets up a website of 'close-shaves'. A nutcase
carries out reprisals against the owners of the vehicles. As
if this wasn't bad enough, one of the vehicles had been
stolen so an innocent person gets hurt.

Someone fakes evidence against a driver and takes it to
the police.

Our close-shave website gets made into reality TV. A few
drivers mend their ways, but many cyclists are put off.

After a minor accident you are assaulted so that the
driver can recover your video & its incriminating evidence
against him.

Kit

kit said:

I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night.
320x240x40 frames of black & white would cost about £20 in
SRAM memory chips....

I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on the
SRAM website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

more than one type.

webopedia.comSRAM.htmlOpen ↗

there's a sram bike company and sram computer memory...

cheers kat

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2hl75dFef44sU3@uni-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

kit said:

I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night.
320x240x40 frames of black & white would cost about £20
in SRAM memory chips....

I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on
the SRAM website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Ummm...I suspect he probably knows that. Having seen a few
of Tom's posts...he's a bit of a jokester...which is good.

rr

Vixen2yall said:

more than one type.

webopedia.comSRAM.htmlOpen ↗

there's a sram bike company and sram computer memory...

cheers kat

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2hl75dFef44sU3@uni-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

kit said:

I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night.
320x240x40 frames of black & white would cost about £20
in SRAM memory chips....

I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on
the SRAM website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

ah, my mistake. i'll keep that in mind next time. thanks for
the heads up.

cheers kat

"Randy Rhine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ktGdnRFn44cxqyvdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ummm...I suspect he probably knows that. Having seen a few
of Tom's posts...he's a bit of a jokester...which is good.

rr

Vixen2yall said:

more than one type.

webopedia.comSRAM.htmlOpen ↗

there's a sram bike company and sram computer memory...

cheers kat

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kit wrote:

>I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night.
>320x240x40 frames of black & white would cost about £20
>in SRAM memory chips....

I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on
the SRAM website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area