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"Safety Cam" Initiative

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Recumbent bicycles
Published
24 May 2004
Last activity
28 May 2004
Original author
Robert Haston
Posts
13
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  1. I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop camera to catch
    drivers harassing them. After just having a car full of teenagers swerve at
    me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver couldn't merge down
    the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the driver charged if I
    had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these people, they often open
    their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
    something like: "you should be on the sidewalk" (establishing motive).

    Good video would obviously meant the difference between this jerk laughing
    it up with his friends and having his license revoked and facing assault
    with a deadly weapon.

    So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of their memory cards
    already). I figure aside from making some money, imagine the effect of just
    a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them rolling the tape on
    TV.

    I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could contact the camera
    makers for such cameras. I'm emailing them, too. If you think you would
    like such a product (it would also work as a conventional digital camera)
    let them know too.

    MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

    I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus 400, and have two Xd
    memory chips I would like to put to further use. Aside from a new market
    for your products, a "safety cam" that recorded a constant video and sound
    loop until you stopped it would be great public relations work.

    "Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal maneuvers and endanger
    other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or handlebar mounted camera
    that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when we selected, this
    would be a powerful tool for road safety. With well publicized use of
    these, aggressive drivers would have to consider that their behavior might
    be recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would be a powerful
    disincentive.
    Cyclists in particular would love this. "Road Ragers" harass cyclists by
    swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or parked cars,
    throwing things at them, yelling or honking loudly just as they pass, etc.
    Some have deliberately rammed cyclists.
    These drivers (who are probably the same self-righteous lot that make
    driving so aggravating) think it is fun, but the cyclist who sees a rear
    view mirror full of grill doesn't know whether the guy will hit them,
    accidentally or not. By the definition of the law, this is assault with a
    deadly weapon (though not with intent to kill).

    We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with a handlebar mount
    and a video loop mode. It would stop recording when we stop it, or an
    accident tips the bike and knocks it loose. The mount should also pivot, so
    as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such as the driver or
    passenger looking back to see the effects of their behavior (an obvious
    giveaway compared to the careless driver who just misjudged the cyclist's
    speed.
    For example, last week a teenager swerved at me while his three
    passengers gawked. He was so busy swerving to the right of the road; he
    wound up not merging down the road. This would have easily been recorded.
    Right now, instead of laughing it up with his friends, he would be facing
    certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing the Prosecutor had
    video of his driving.
    Believe it or not, it is typically easy to get these people to admit it
    when you catch up with them. For example (if I even get a word in before
    they start) I ask: "What was that all about" Instead of an apology or
    ignorance, they say: "You shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on the
    sidewalk".
    Now imagine how such people would behave once news stories of them
    endangering motorists, cyclists, or even pedestrians (complete with footage)
    got out?
    You would be doing a great service if you modified one of your small,
    inexpensive digital cameras for this. I would also like to have a cheaper,
    1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would also be good just to
    have running if you saw something interesting.

    Thank you

    --
    Robert Haston
    Satellite Beach, FL

  2. Lots of interesting possibilities with new digital photo technology.

    The recording system you describe would be interesting, although I
    haven't figured out the swivel tracking system yet. Maybe the answer
    is not a swiveling camera, since it would almost require a tracking
    device to be really effective, but an entire set of small cameras to
    cover rear, side and front.

    Meanwhile the monitor for a rear facing system like this might serve
    as a rearview mirror.

    I am thinking that the camera companies don't make this stuff. If you
    could track down the people who do it for police cars, that might
    point you in the right direction. BTW the police systems are really
    expensive.

    John Riley

  3. Helmet mounting would make a good reason for one and obviate 'swiveling'.

    Mirror split screen will obviate 'rearward camera'.

    Wide angle lens.

    A local attorney specializing in DUI defense instigated legislation
    mandating LEO's dash cameras - without any consideration for the costs. I
    understand LEOs love 'em.

    "john riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    | Lots of interesting possibilities with new digital photo technology.
    |
    | The recording system you describe would be interesting, although I
    | haven't figured out the swivel tracking system yet. Maybe the answer
    | is not a swiveling camera, since it would almost require a tracking
    | device to be really effective, but an entire set of small cameras to
    | cover rear, side and front.
    |
    | Meanwhile the monitor for a rear facing system like this might serve
    | as a rearview mirror.
    |
    | I am thinking that the camera companies don't make this stuff. If you
    | could track down the people who do it for police cars, that might
    | point you in the right direction. BTW the police systems are really
    | expensive.
    |
    | John Riley

  4. "Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop camera to catch
    drivers harassing them. After just having a car full of teenagers swerve at
    me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver couldn't merge down
    the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the driver charged if I
    had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these people, they often open
    their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
    something like: "you should be on the sidewalk" (establishing motive).


    SNIP

    Sounds like a great idea, Robert.

    Its probably out of my 'low budget' price range but it is something I
    believe that I would find good use for.

    Goos luck.

    Lewis.

  5. In article <[email hidden]> Lewis

    Campbell said:


    Sounds like a great idea, Robert.

    Its probably out of my 'low budget' price range but it is something I
    believe that I would find good use for.

    Goos luck.

    Lewis.

    I agree, and not just for cyclists - I can think of other users of the
    cam that would find it useful.

    As far as pricewise - there are some pretty inexpensive digital cams out
    there. I just purchased an AIPTEK pen cam with 1.3 mp resolution for
    putting in an RC plane. Cost was about $60, and it's capable of doing
    320x240 res video at something like 15 fps till it runs out of memory. I
    know they make a higher end version that can use external memory up to
    256Mb. They are also small and light. So these might be a good basis for
    a helmet mounted camera.

    The downside is that if you are continuously running video, and doing
    some sort of FIFO to a memory chip, you're going to use a lot of power.
    Looking at the specs for some of the higher end digital cams that I've
    considered buying for other purposes it's typical to burn something like
    550 ma (1/2 an amp) during the write cycle to the memory. You'd be doing
    that more or less continuosly, so the drain would be the equivalent of a
    3w, 6volt light on the bike in terms of battery drain. You'd be much
    better off at this point in the technology to just trigger it for
    specific events and record for a few moments at a time.

    Cameras themselves can be pretty cheap - a decent, mini (matchbook sized)
    b/w camera is only $20 and can run off a 9 volt battery and produces
    video (NTSC) output. A pair of these on the front and back of the helmet
    would be cheap enough. To go color costs about $60. It's the storing and
    cycling of the data that's going to be hard to do. Still someone will
    crack that at some point.
    But you could probably buy a pen cam capable of low res video and audio
    with an extra memory card for under $120 these days, cheaper soon, and
    just wear it as a helmet cam and push the button when you want to record
    something.

    This basic idea was included in David Brin's book "Earth" where he
    postulated folks ubiquitously wearing sunglasses equipped with cameras to
    capture video called "Tru Vues" I think. The idea was that they were so
    widely available and distributed, that in any crowd some folks would be
    wearing them and think to push the button and start recording for
    evidence against assailants, goverment miscounduct, traffic accidents,
    etc. I guess we're there.

  6. Such cameras already exist.

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/02/1938203&mode=thread&tid=152&tid=158&tid=173&tid=185&tid=187&tid=99

    There are several referenced throughout the comments that you can buy right
    now!

    Like this one...

    http://www.mydejaview.com/pages/2/index.htm

    Gabe

    "Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop camera to catch
    drivers harassing them. After just having a car full of teenagers swerve


    at

    Quoted message said:

    me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver couldn't merge


    down

    Quoted message said:

    the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the driver charged if I
    had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these people, they often open
    their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
    something like: "you should be on the sidewalk" (establishing motive).

    Good video would obviously meant the difference between this jerk laughing
    it up with his friends and having his license revoked and facing assault
    with a deadly weapon.

    So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of their memory cards
    already). I figure aside from making some money, imagine the effect of


    just

    Quoted message said:

    a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them rolling the tape


    on

    Quoted message said:

    TV.

    I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could contact the camera
    makers for such cameras. I'm emailing them, too. If you think you would
    like such a product (it would also work as a conventional digital camera)
    let them know too.

    MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

    I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus 400, and have two Xd
    memory chips I would like to put to further use. Aside from a new market
    for your products, a "safety cam" that recorded a constant video and sound
    loop until you stopped it would be great public relations work.

    "Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal maneuvers and


    endanger

    Quoted message said:

    other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or handlebar mounted


    camera

    Quoted message said:

    that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when we selected, this
    would be a powerful tool for road safety. With well publicized use of
    these, aggressive drivers would have to consider that their behavior might
    be recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would be a powerful
    disincentive.
    Cyclists in particular would love this. "Road Ragers" harass cyclists


    by

    Quoted message said:

    swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or parked cars,
    throwing things at them, yelling or honking loudly just as they pass, etc.
    Some have deliberately rammed cyclists.
    These drivers (who are probably the same self-righteous lot that make
    driving so aggravating) think it is fun, but the cyclist who sees a rear
    view mirror full of grill doesn't know whether the guy will hit them,
    accidentally or not. By the definition of the law, this is assault with a
    deadly weapon (though not with intent to kill).

    We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with a handlebar mount
    and a video loop mode. It would stop recording when we stop it, or an
    accident tips the bike and knocks it loose. The mount should also pivot,


    so

    Quoted message said:

    as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such as the driver or
    passenger looking back to see the effects of their behavior (an obvious
    giveaway compared to the careless driver who just misjudged the cyclist's
    speed.
    For example, last week a teenager swerved at me while his three
    passengers gawked. He was so busy swerving to the right of the road; he
    wound up not merging down the road. This would have easily been recorded.
    Right now, instead of laughing it up with his friends, he would be facing
    certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing the Prosecutor had
    video of his driving.
    Believe it or not, it is typically easy to get these people to admit it
    when you catch up with them. For example (if I even get a word in before
    they start) I ask: "What was that all about" Instead of an apology or
    ignorance, they say: "You shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on


    the

    Quoted message said:

    sidewalk".
    Now imagine how such people would behave once news stories of them
    endangering motorists, cyclists, or even pedestrians (complete with


    footage)

    Quoted message said:

    got out?
    You would be doing a great service if you modified one of your small,
    inexpensive digital cameras for this. I would also like to have a


    cheaper,

    Quoted message said:

    1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would also be good just


    to

    Quoted message said:

    have running if you saw something interesting.

    Thank you

    --
    Robert Haston
    Satellite Beach, FL

  7. Great information!

    The dejaview seems darn close, just pretty pricey right now.

    As to the mount, just make it an option, just like we do with mirrors and
    lights.

    I would just like one that you could use all that expensive memory we have
    bought.

    I just figure the major manufacturers must be brought in if we want them
    cheap and allow use of their $$$ memory chips.

    "Gabriel DeVault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Such cameras already exist.


    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/02/1938203&mode=thread&tid=152&tid=158&tid=173&tid=185&tid=187&tid=99

    Quoted message said:


    There are several referenced throughout the comments that you can buy


    right

    Quoted message said:

    now!

    Like this one...

    http://www.mydejaview.com/pages/2/index.htm

    Gabe

    "Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop camera to catch
    drivers harassing them. After just having a car full of teenagers


    swerve

    Quoted message said:

    at

    Quoted message said:

    me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver couldn't merge


    down

    Quoted message said:

    the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the driver charged if


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these people, they often


    open

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
    something like: "you should be on the sidewalk" (establishing motive).

    Good video would obviously meant the difference between this jerk


    laughing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it up with his friends and having his license revoked and facing assault
    with a deadly weapon.

    So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of their memory cards
    already). I figure aside from making some money, imagine the effect of


    just

    Quoted message said:

    a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them rolling the tape


    on

    Quoted message said:

    TV.

    I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could contact the camera
    makers for such cameras. I'm emailing them, too. If you think you


    would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    like such a product (it would also work as a conventional digital


    camera)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    let them know too.

    MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

    I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus 400, and have two


    Xd

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    memory chips I would like to put to further use. Aside from a new


    market

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for your products, a "safety cam" that recorded a constant video and


    sound

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    loop until you stopped it would be great public relations work.

    "Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal maneuvers and


    endanger

    Quoted message said:

    other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or handlebar mounted


    camera

    Quoted message said:

    that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when we selected, this
    would be a powerful tool for road safety. With well publicized use of
    these, aggressive drivers would have to consider that their behavior


    might

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would be a powerful
    disincentive.
    Cyclists in particular would love this. "Road Ragers" harass


    cyclists

    Quoted message said:

    by

    Quoted message said:

    swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or parked cars,
    throwing things at them, yelling or honking loudly just as they pass,


    etc.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Some have deliberately rammed cyclists.
    These drivers (who are probably the same self-righteous lot that make
    driving so aggravating) think it is fun, but the cyclist who sees a rear
    view mirror full of grill doesn't know whether the guy will hit them,
    accidentally or not. By the definition of the law, this is assault with


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    deadly weapon (though not with intent to kill).

    We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with a handlebar


    mount

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and a video loop mode. It would stop recording when we stop it, or an
    accident tips the bike and knocks it loose. The mount should also


    pivot,

    Quoted message said:

    so

    Quoted message said:

    as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such as the driver


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    passenger looking back to see the effects of their behavior (an obvious
    giveaway compared to the careless driver who just misjudged the


    cyclist's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    speed.
    For example, last week a teenager swerved at me while his three
    passengers gawked. He was so busy swerving to the right of the road; he
    wound up not merging down the road. This would have easily been


    recorded.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Right now, instead of laughing it up with his friends, he would be


    facing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing the Prosecutor


    had

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    video of his driving.
    Believe it or not, it is typically easy to get these people to admit


    it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    when you catch up with them. For example (if I even get a word in before
    they start) I ask: "What was that all about" Instead of an apology or
    ignorance, they say: "You shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on


    the

    Quoted message said:

    sidewalk".
    Now imagine how such people would behave once news stories of them
    endangering motorists, cyclists, or even pedestrians (complete with


    footage)

    Quoted message said:

    got out?
    You would be doing a great service if you modified one of your small,
    inexpensive digital cameras for this. I would also like to have a


    cheaper,

    Quoted message said:

    1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would also be good


    just

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    have running if you saw something interesting.

    Thank you

    --
    Robert Haston
    Satellite Beach, FL

  8. "Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Robert states:"I just figure the major manufacturers must be brought in if
    we want them cheap and allow use of their $$$ memory chips."

    To which I reply, we also need volume to attract manufacturers to such a
    product. Take all the recumbent riders [censored] at car and truck drivers and
    I'm afraid the potential still falls short


    [...]

    Yeah, but what about car drivers worried about road rage and accident
    documentation?

    There has been some talk about "black boxes" (flight data recorders)
    for cars that would record several parameters that could be used in
    accident analysis. Of course it could be self-incriminating, so I am
    not sure how far it has gone.

    Point is, reading the article (two links in) it seems like HP doesn't
    know what they have. There was no indication that they saw any
    application for the technology in personal security.

    John Riley

  9. Quoted message said:

    "Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Robert states:"I just figure the major manufacturers must be brought in if
    we want them cheap and allow use of their $$$ memory chips."

    I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night. 320x240x40
    frames of black & white would cost about £20 in SRAM memory chips. I'd
    have thought this might be enough - especially as there are video
    digitiser chips available that include real-time compression.

    Video cameras can have quite high current consumption - about 200ma @5-12V
    for some of the ones I'm familiar with. A system including a camera
    and digitiser might eat as many batteries or as much dynamo-power as a
    headlight.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    To which I reply, we also need volume to attract manufacturers to such a
    product. Take all the recumbent riders [censored] at car and truck drivers and
    I'm afraid the potential still falls short


    [...]

    I had a similar idea a few years back.

    http://www.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=4e0e1a4e.0208081402.4f83c444%40posting.google.com&rnum=6&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3D%2Bvideo%2B%2522Kit%2Bwolf%2522%26btnG%3DSearch

    I have since heard of so-called 'digital chaperones' for healthcare
    workers. I can think of a thousand reasons why they don't seem to have
    caught on... I think a black-box for bikes and cars seems a far preferable
    application of this technology.

    But would an accident video be admissable as evidence? When I worked in a
    medical photography dept. we had a top-notch digital camera, but it never
    got used for medico-legal work because of the worry that digital pictures
    can be tampered with so easily. On the other hand, if a photographic
    record led to the police being able to find a hit & run driver with
    scratches all over their car, I guess it would have done its job.

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, but what about car drivers worried about road rage and accident
    documentation?

    There has been some talk about "black boxes" (flight data recorders)
    for cars that would record several parameters that could be used in
    accident analysis. Of course it could be self-incriminating, so I am
    not sure how far it has gone.

    Point is, reading the article (two links in) it seems like HP doesn't
    know what they have. There was no indication that they saw any
    application for the technology in personal security.

    I wonder what the privacy / civil liberties / wider issues are?

    A few possible scenarios:

    Your black-box runs out of batteries, but the guilty party's insurer's
    know that it was installed on your bike. They argue your failure to
    produce its evidence is suggestive of liability.

    Someone sets up a website of 'close-shaves'. A nutcase carries out
    reprisals against the owners of the vehicles. As if this wasn't bad
    enough, one of the vehicles had been stolen so an innocent person gets
    hurt.

    Someone fakes evidence against a driver and takes it to the police.

    Our close-shave website gets made into reality TV. A few drivers mend
    their ways, but many cyclists are put off.

    After a minor accident you are assaulted so that the driver can recover
    your video & its incriminating evidence against him.

    Kit

  10. kit said:

    I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night. 320x240x40
    frames of black & white would cost about £20 in SRAM memory chips....

    I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on the SRAM
    website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

    --
    Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

  11. more than one type.

    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/SRAM.html

    there's a sram bike company and sram computer memory...

    cheers
    kat

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    kit said:

    I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night. 320x240x40
    frames of black & white would cost about £20 in SRAM memory chips....

    I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on the SRAM
    website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

    --
    Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

  12. Ummm...I suspect he probably knows that. Having seen a few of Tom's
    posts...he's a bit of a jokester...which is good.

    rr

    Vixen2yall said:

    more than one type.

    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/SRAM.html

    there's a sram bike company and sram computer memory...

    cheers
    kat

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    kit said:

    I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night. 320x240x40
    frames of black & white would cost about £20 in SRAM memory chips....

    I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on the SRAM
    website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

    --
    Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

  13. ah, my mistake. i'll keep that in mind next time. thanks for the heads up.

    cheers
    kat

    "Randy Rhine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Ummm...I suspect he probably knows that. Having seen a few of Tom's
    posts...he's a bit of a jokester...which is good.

    rr

    Vixen2yall said:

    more than one type.

    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/SRAM.html

    there's a sram bike company and sram computer memory...

    cheers
    kat

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    kit wrote:

    >I looked at the prices of memory chips the other night. 320x240x40
    >frames of black & white would cost about £20 in SRAM memory chips....

    I see a lot of bicycle components but no memory chips on the SRAM
    website. <http://www.sram.com/>. 😉

    --
    Tom Sherman – Quad City Area


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