Road Cycling · Public discussion

Safe scouting?

Matthew · 2003-11-25T10:13:24+00:00

I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge. The information below is taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting http://www.usscouts.org/safety/g2ssIX.html#RTFToA10 Right Bike Ride only a bike that fits you. Select a bike that permits you to put both feet on the ground while sitting on the seat. The hand-grips should be no higher than your shoulder or lower than your seat. Wouldn't those recommendations gaurantee scouts are riding a bike that doesn't fit? I think fifty miles is going to be a long ride on a bike like that. At least they don't say, "Stay on the sidewalk." Matthew

Started by Matthew · 25 November 2003 · Last activity 29 November 2003 · 9 posts · 709 views

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01 / Original postSafe scouting?Matthew · 25 Nov 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–9Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #9Ryan Cousineau · 29 Nov 2003

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 25 November 2003
Last activity: 29 November 2003
Original author: Matthew
Posts: 9
Discussion status: Public discussion
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Original post
Matthew
Archived post

25 November 2003, 10:13 UTC #1

I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge. The information below is
taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting
usscouts.orgg2ssIX.html
<quote> Right Bike Ride only a bike that fits you. Select a bike that permits you to put both feet
on the ground while sitting on the seat. The hand-grips should be no higher than your shoulder or
lower than your seat. </quote>
Wouldn't those recommendations gaurantee scouts are riding a bike that doesn't fit? I think fifty
miles is going to be a long ride on a bike like that. At least they don't say, "Stay on the
sidewalk."
Matthew

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Slartibartfast
Archived post

25 November 2003, 10:13 UTC #2

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge. The information below is
taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting
usscouts.orgg2ssIX.html
If you get a chance, get a copy of the cycling merit badge booklet. (probably around 40 pages) I
have heard that it is really well done, and a great resource. I haven't seen it, but one of the
officers of the local cycling club says it is one of the best general cycling resources around
(scouts or no scouts)
Also, as part of the merit badge, they are supposed to *plan* a ride, with milepoints and
everything.

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The Real Bev
Archived post

25 November 2003, 10:13 UTC #3

Matthew said:

I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge. The information below is
taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting
usscouts.orgg2ssIX.html
<quote> Right Bike Ride only a bike that fits you. Select a bike that permits you to put both feet
on the ground while sitting on the seat. The hand-grips should be no higher than your shoulder or
lower than your seat. </quote>
Wouldn't those recommendations gaurantee scouts are riding a bike that doesn't fit? I think fifty
miles is going to be a long ride on a bike like that. At least they don't say, "Stay on the
sidewalk."
Perhaps BSA "biking" means "motorcycling," which actually makes sense.
--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Little Mary took her skis upon the snow to frisk. Wasn't she a silly girl her little * ?

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Ryan Cousineau
Archived post

25 November 2003, 10:13 UTC #4

In article <[email hidden]>,
Matthew said:
I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge. The information below is
taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting
usscouts.orgg2ssIX.html
<quote> Right Bike Ride only a bike that fits you. Select a bike that permits you to put both feet
on the ground while sitting on the seat. The hand-grips should be no higher than your shoulder or
lower than your seat. </quote>
Wouldn't those recommendations gaurantee scouts are riding a bike that doesn't fit? I think fifty
miles is going to be a long ride on a bike like that. At least they don't say, "Stay on the
sidewalk."
Heh. The "no higher than your shoulder" remark is what rats this recommendation out: it's aimed at
kids riding banana-seat bikes, for which these fit recommendations might, maybe make sense, and in
which there might actually be any danger of your handlebars coming above your shoulders. (I recently
had my handlebars above my shoulders while I was on my commuter road bike, but only for a very short
period of time, and I do not recommend the experience).
They also say "don't ride after dark", and recommend a water bottle for "long trips" (That's a
pretty short trip for most of us...).
Waitaminit. "Biking is unsafe on wet pavement and on windy days"? Well, there goes my commute. How
old are these Scouts? 8?
But then it goes on to recommend a maximum of 6h/day of riding. That's a pretty serious ride!
These rules are in dire need of some updating, or at the very least, consistency. You can almost
hear the ad hoc nature of them, each the result of a bike outing gone wrong.
At the very least, the rules should assume fitment to a typical MTB, which is what most novice
cyclist Scouts are likely to turn up on.
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

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Q.
Archived post

25 November 2003, 10:13 UTC #5

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote <snip>
Quoted message said:
Heh. The "no higher than your shoulder" remark is what rats this recommendation out: it's aimed at
kids riding banana-seat bikes, for which these fit recommendations might, maybe make sense, and in
which there might actually be any danger of your handlebars coming above your shoulders. (I
recently had my handlebars above my shoulders while I was on my commuter road bike, but only for a
very short period of time, and I do not recommend the experience).

<snip>
Happens to be the law in Massachusetts too ... that's not to say the laws here make sense though (c:
Those darned lowrider bike gangs are such a problem in Boston ...
C.Q.C.

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Matthew
Archived post

25 November 2003, 16:09 UTC #6

"Slartibartfast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge.

The
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
information below is taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting
usscouts.orgg2ssIX.html
If you get a chance, get a copy of the cycling merit badge booklet. (probably around 40 pages) I
have heard that it is really well done, and a great resource. I haven't seen it, but one of the
officers of the local cycling club says it is one of the best general cycling resources around
(scouts or no scouts)
Also, as part of the merit badge, they are supposed to *plan* a ride, with milepoints and
everything.
The merit badge book is indeed a much better resource. It was written by Effective Cycling
instructors. I was just suprised the BSA Safe Scouting document wasn't updated as well. But it will
be a good lesson for the scouts in critical reading.
Right now I am thinking I will have them follow the recommendation for their first 10 mile ride and
then mention that other sources show that riding with a higher saddle position is more effecient.
Then they can try the better, higher position and decide for themselves which is better on the next
10 mile ride.
To finish off the lesson in critical reading I'll have them discuss why they think BSA
recommended the lower position. Then they can prepare a letter to BSA outlining why Safe Scouting
should be updated.
Matthew

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Matthew
Archived post

25 November 2003, 16:09 UTC #7

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>,
Matthew said:
I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge.

The
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
information below is taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting
usscouts.orgg2ssIX.html
<quote> Right Bike Ride only a bike that fits you. Select a bike that permits you to put

both
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
feet on the ground while sitting on the seat. The hand-grips should be

no
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
higher than your shoulder or lower than your seat. </quote>
Wouldn't those recommendations gaurantee scouts are riding a bike that doesn't fit? I think
fifty miles is going to be a long ride on a bike

like
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
that. At least they don't say, "Stay on the sidewalk."
Heh. The "no higher than your shoulder" remark is what rats this recommendation out: it's aimed at
kids riding banana-seat bikes, for which these fit recommendations might, maybe make sense, and in
which there might actually be any danger of your handlebars coming above your shoulders. (I
recently had my handlebars above my shoulders while I was on my commuter road bike, but only for a
very short period of time, and I do not recommend the experience).
They also say "don't ride after dark", and recommend a water bottle for "long trips" (That's a
pretty short trip for most of us...).

Funny too, because water is one of the "scout essentials;" something you should have with you on
every outing.
Quoted message said:
Waitaminit. "Biking is unsafe on wet pavement and on windy days"? Well, there goes my commute. How
old are these Scouts? 8?

By definition a scout is between 12 and 18. I think you are right; biking in the rain and wind is
more dangerous and requires additional planning and perhaps gear but it is not unsafe.
Quoted message said:
But then it goes on to recommend a maximum of 6h/day of riding. That's a pretty serious ride!
The culminating test for the merit badge is a 50 mile ride that is completed in under 8 hours.
Unless conditions are bad or the scouts choose a route in the Rockies I'm sure they will finish in
well under 6 hours but again, the recommendations show a lack of consitency.
Quoted message said:

These rules are in dire need of some updating, or at the very least, consistency. You can almost
hear the ad hoc nature of them, each the result of a bike outing gone wrong.
At the very least, the rules should assume fitment to a typical MTB, which is what most novice
cyclist Scouts are likely to turn up on.

All in all, I think this will be a good experience for the scouts. Our first meeting will be a class
on basic bicycle maintenence where they will learn how to care for their bikes and what basic tools
and gear they should carry on each ride. Then we hit a desert trail for lessons in bike handling.
That should almost guarantee experience with fixing flats and will emphasize the lesson, "Be
prepared."
Matthew

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Fritz M
Archived post

25 November 2003, 18:11 UTC #8

Ryan Cousineau said:
They also say "don't ride after dark".
Interesting.
My son's Bear cub scout handbook says something along the lines of "Avoid riding after dark. If you
ride after dark, use a headlight and rear reflector."
RFM

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Ryan Cousineau
Archived post

29 November 2003, 18:08 UTC #9

In article <[email hidden]>,
Matthew said:
"Slartibartfast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I was asked to help a group Boy Scouts with their Cycling Merit Badge.

The
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
information below is taken from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting
usscouts.orgg2ssIX.html
Quoted message said:
Right now I am thinking I will have them follow the recommendation for their first 10 mile ride
and then mention that other sources show that riding with a higher saddle position is more
effecient. Then they can try the better, higher position and decide for themselves which is better
on the next 10 mile ride.
10 miles is likely an hour of riding for these poor kids. Show some mercy and shorten the "low
saddle" part of the lesson! Of course, most of these kids will show up with maladjusted
saddles (low)....
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

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