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Saddle design evidence

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UK and Europe
Published
26 September 2004
Last activity
28 September 2004
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Anthony Cox
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21
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  1. Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    Clinical question
    Are there specific bicycle characteristics that modify the risk of
    erectile dysfunction?

    Bottom line
    Long-distance cyclists wishing to minimize the risk of erectile
    dysfunction should ride a road bicycle instead of a mountain bicycle,
    keep the handlebar height lower than saddle height, and use a saddle
    without a cutout, if perineal numbness is experienced. (LOE = 2b)
    <http://www.infopoems.com/resources/levels.html>

    Reference
    Dettori JR, Koepsell TD, Cummings P, Corman JM. Erectile dysfunction
    after a long-distance cycling event: associations with bicycle
    characteristics. J Urology 2004; 172:637-41.

    Study design: Cohort (prospective)

    Setting: Population-based

    Synopsis
    Erectile dysfunction (ED) following long-distance cycling is thought to
    be secondary to compression of the neurovascular bundle from sitting on
    the saddle. As a result, new bicycle saddles are marketed with "cutouts"
    or significant grooves intended to relieve pressure and decrease the
    risk of ED. To evaluate potential relationships between ED and various
    bicycle characteristics, the authors prospectively studied a cohort of
    463 cyclists who participated in 1 of 6 different recreational bicycle
    rides of at least 320 kilometers. Subjects were sexually active, 21
    years or older, and reported normal erectile function at the onset of
    the study. Data were collected 1 week before the event, and 1 week and 1
    month after the event. The style of saddle containing a deep split in
    the back and a groove down the middle was classified as a saddle with a
    cutout. ED was determined using a previously validated International
    Index of Erectile Function questionnaire. Follow-up data was available
    for 84% of the subjects at 1 week and 74% at 1 month. The cumulative
    incidence of ED was 4.2% and 1.8% at 1 week and 1 month after the ride,
    respectively. Bicycle characteristics associated with an increased risk
    of ED included a mountain bike compared with a road bike (relative risk
    [RR] = 4.1; 95% CI, 1.6 - 12.5), and the relative height of the
    handlebars parallel with or higher than the saddle compared with a
    handlebar height lower than the saddle (RR = 3.0; 95% CI, 1.1 - 9.3).
    Nearly one third of participants reported perineal numbness during the
    ride which was also associated with an increased risk of ED. In those
    subjects reporting perineal numbness, use of saddles with cutouts
    actually increased (rather than decreased, as expected by marketing
    claims) the risk of ED (RR = 6.0; 95% CI, 1.3 - 27.1). Saddle cutouts
    did decrease the risk of ED in subjects not reporting perineal numbness
    during the ride. It is uncertain whether patients with a past history of
    numbness and ED were more likely to use cutout saddles, possibly biasing
    the results. There were insufficient data to determine any association
    between ED and saddle width, padding, or tilt.

    --
    Anthony Cox

  2. On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:27:42 GMT, Anthony Cox
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    <yawn>

    If you care, buy a recumbent.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anthony Cox said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    I presume that this is SPAM when you read who posted it.

    --
    T h e - e x t e n d e r ! ! ! !

  4. In news:[email hidden],

    Just zis Guy said:

    On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:27:42 GMT, Anthony Cox
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    <yawn>

    If you care, buy a recumbent.

    Guy

    Can't see over the hedges.
    --

    Martin Bulmer

  5. On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:41:29 +0100, "Martin Bulmer"
    <[email hidden]> ("Martin Bulmer"

    ) said:

    In news:[email hidden],

    Just zis Guy said:

    On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:27:42 GMT, Anthony Cox
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    <yawn>

    If you care, buy a recumbent.

    Guy

    Can't see over the hedges.

    I can on my dual 26" tourer. My head height is about 2 ins higher than
    my wifes on her Dawes Kara-Kum.

    :-)
    --
    Matt K.
    "Shoes for industry!"

  6. Martin Bulmer said:

    Can't see over the hedges.

    Which is very nice at times when there is a not completely straight ahead
    headwind coming from behind that hedge...

    Roos

  7. Quoted message said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    Load of bollocks ;-)

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
    to get correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

    --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

  8. Roos Eisma said:

    "Martin Bulmer" <[email hidden]> writes:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Can't see over the hedges.

    Quoted message said:

    Which is very nice at times when there is a not completely straight ahead
    headwind coming from behind that hedge...

    And it depends on the 'bent, and it depends on the hedge. There are
    some I can't see over that I could see over on the upright, but having a
    reasonably high recumbent most of the ones I can't see over I couldn't
    see over without being on a tallbike anyway.
    OTOH, my default view is where I'm going, rather than at the road just
    in front of me. One of the things I prefer about the 'bent is I
    actually get to see a lot more than I used to, so "can't see over
    hedges" is mostly FUD AFAICT.

    Roos' bike puts about a head lower than mine. And when we are
    traversing a route where she's under wall/hedgerow level and I'm over on
    a windy day she gets noticeably quicker than me.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  9. Peter Clinch said:

    Roos' bike puts about a head lower than mine. And when we are
    traversing a route where she's under wall/hedgerow level and I'm over on
    a windy day she gets noticeably quicker than me.

    Sounds like a good excuse to me ;-)
    First one to the cafe buys the coffee..

    ...d

  10. They did mention the obvious confounding factor I suppose:

    "It is uncertain whether patients with a past history of
    numbness and ED were more likely to use cutout saddles, possibly
    biasing
    the results"

    The biggest risk factor (for those experiencing ED) was to use a cut
    out saddle - which is probably a surrogate for past hostory or concern
    at the very least.

    They could have tried to adjust/control for this confounder by looking
    at the reasons for such saddle use in greater detail. No history 1 week
    prior to ride may be evidence that the saddles provide long-term
    protection at the risk of short-term discomfort.

    In epidemiology, frequently the biggest predictor of an outcome is a
    past event!
    e.g., previous DVT is the single biggest predictor (by a huge margin)
    of risk for a future DVT...

    As for recumbents... Well an ICE-Q would be v.nice, but a Roberts
    compact Audax may be more suited to my medium-term needs.
    regards,
    Daren
    --
    remove outer garment for reply

  11. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    Load of bollocks ;-)

    Isn't the sample size in your study rather, erm, limited or is there
    something Vernon should know?

    :-)

  12. Mark Thompson said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    Load of bollocks ;-)

    Isn't the sample size in your study rather, erm, limited or is there
    something Vernon should know?


    Yes. Unless there's something very unusual, it'd only be 2 bollocks.

    A

  13. Quoted message said:

    Isn't the sample size in your study rather, erm, limited or is there
    something Vernon should know?

    :-)

    Cycling long distance has never adversely affected his family jewels (smug
    smile)

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
    to get correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

    --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

  14. In message <[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy,
    you know?" <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    <yawn>

    If you care, buy a recumbent.

    If you have a recumbent, don't bother reading it.

    I just thought it might be of interest, given it is about cycling.

    --
    Anthony Cox

  15. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Isn't the sample size in your study rather, erm, limited or is there
    something Vernon should know?

    Quoted message said:

    Cycling long distance has never adversely affected his family jewels
    (smug smile)

    You just seemed so sure that it didn't affect other people too. I was
    wondering whether you'd been conducting extensive population based studies
    - who knows what happens to the bib-short wearer as he's lying unconscious
    beside his bike..!

  16. Quoted message said:

    You just seemed so sure that it didn't affect other people too. I was
    wondering whether you'd been conducting extensive population based studies
    - who knows what happens to the bib-short wearer as he's lying unconscious
    beside his bike..!

    The PSF is all-seeing and all-knowing ;-)

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
    to get correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

    --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

  17. Does anyone have any experience of changing to a "split saddle" after
    experiencing perineal numbness?
    Does it help?

    Steve (who just experienced a touch of perineal numbness .....)

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    They did mention the obvious confounding factor I suppose:

    "It is uncertain whether patients with a past history of
    numbness and ED were more likely to use cutout saddles, possibly
    biasing
    the results"

    The biggest risk factor (for those experiencing ED) was to use a cut
    out saddle - which is probably a surrogate for past hostory or concern
    at the very least.

    They could have tried to adjust/control for this confounder by looking
    at the reasons for such saddle use in greater detail. No history 1 week
    prior to ride may be evidence that the saddles provide long-term
    protection at the risk of short-term discomfort.

    In epidemiology, frequently the biggest predictor of an outcome is a
    past event!
    e.g., previous DVT is the single biggest predictor (by a huge margin)
    of risk for a future DVT...

    As for recumbents... Well an ICE-Q would be v.nice, but a Roberts
    compact Audax may be more suited to my medium-term needs.
    regards,
    Daren
    --
    remove outer garment for reply

  18. Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any experience of changing to a "split saddle" after
    experiencing perineal numbness?
    Does it help?

    Never had the numbness, just felt some pressure when I went down on the
    drops so got one of those saddles with holes in straight away. Seems to
    have worked fine - [censored] goes a bit numb on stupidly long rides but
    important bit is fine. Not sure how one goes about choosing a saddle that
    fits tho - seems like a bit of a lottery. A few weeks ago someone
    mentioned a company that gives you a load of saddles to try out for a small
    deposit. Anyone remember who they were?

  19. In news:[email hidden],

    Whingin' Pom said:

    On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:41:29 +0100, "Martin Bulmer"
    <[email hidden]> ("Martin Bulmer"

    ) said:

    In news:[email hidden],

    Just zis Guy said:

    On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:27:42 GMT, Anthony Cox
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    > Erectile dysfunction common with long-distance cycling

    <yawn>

    If you care, buy a recumbent.

    Guy

    Can't see over the hedges.

    I can on my dual 26" tourer. My head height is about 2 ins higher than
    my wifes on her Dawes Kara-Kum.

    :-)

    I'm trying to picture that. If you are recumbent, or even semi- , does that
    not require that your seat be considerably higher than hers?
    If so, can you still reach the road with your feet?
    --

    Martin Bulmer

  20. On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:10:35 +0100, "Martin Bulmer"
    <[email hidden]> ("Martin Bulmer"

    ) said:

    In news:[email hidden],

    Whingin' Pom said:


    I can on my dual 26" tourer. My head height is about 2 ins higher than
    my wifes on her Dawes Kara-Kum.

    :-)

    I'm trying to picture that. If you are recumbent, or even semi- , does that
    not require that your seat be considerably higher than hers?

    I'm reclined at about 35 degrees (I think!) as I like a
    not-too-laid-back position, it's one of the tallest recumbents out
    there and I'm not a short chap to start with. My wife has a very short
    frame with the seat down as far as it can go. She's v. short, I'm v.
    tall. :-)

    It is probably one of the few combinations of circumstances where a
    recumbent rider is taller than an upright rider, though.

    Quoted message said:

    If so, can you still reach the road with your feet?

    Yep. No worries.

    --
    Matt K.
    "Blessed are they that run around in circles, for they shall be
    known as wheels."

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