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S&S Torque couplings

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Cycling Equipment
Published
14 March 2005
Last activity
19 March 2005
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Rudi Lutz
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  1. Hi!
    I suspect this may have been asked before, but I have not found the
    previous discussion. Anyway, I am having a new custom Audax bike built for
    me and am considering having S&S torque couplings fitted. Does anyone have
    any experience of S&S torque couplings? Are they as good as claimed, or are
    there drawbacks? Also if I did have them and wanted to have a pretty strong
    case for protection in aircraft, is there a good cheaper alternative (e.g.
    some brand of ordinary suitcase at an ordinary price) that could be used
    instead of the "official" case?

    Thanks very much for any advice

    Rudi

  2. Rudi Lutz said:

    Hi!
    I suspect this may have been asked before, but I have not found the
    previous discussion. Anyway, I am having a new custom Audax bike built for
    me and am considering having S&S torque couplings fitted. Does anyone have
    any experience of S&S torque couplings? Are they as good as claimed, or are
    there drawbacks? Also if I did have them and wanted to have a pretty strong
    case for protection in aircraft, is there a good cheaper alternative (e.g.
    some brand of ordinary suitcase at an ordinary price) that could be used
    instead of the "official" case?

    Thanks very much for any advice

    Rudi

    They are the best way to make the frame foldable, period. They are
    secure, easy to use, the resulting frame rides normally.
    We have done a few coupled S&S frames and the 'official' case, with the
    things it comes with, is the best solution by far.

  3. We have S&S coupled bikes. If the couplers are properly tightened the
    bike is like an un-coupled bike - get into the habit of checking the
    couplers. Once tightened they do not loosen, IME, but if someone has
    had access to the bike then be suspicious. My bike was sitting at the
    LBS, sort of a sales leader for them so they put it on the sales floor
    rather than in the shop while awaiting a part. Apparently someone on
    the sales floor, probably a sales person, had loosened the couplers,
    possibly to show how they worked, and did not properly tighten them
    back up. I picked up the bike and rode up a big hill, almost 3000 ft
    of climbing. As I started back down I heard a rattling and stopped to
    investigate. Both couplers were loose with less than a full turn
    engaged on the threads. Good thing I caught it *before* hitting the
    big descent, with sections up to almost 20% grade - would have been
    ugly if the bike came apart at descent speeds. That was years ago and
    I have many thousands of miles on that bike since, including descents
    here in the states and in the Alps and Dolomites. Nary a problem
    since, but I keep the couplers tight and check them regularly.

    As for cases, we use the official soft cases. A lot of dealers we
    know, and tour operators with S&S coupled bikes, all recommended the
    soft case over the hard. The hard case is a bit more difficult to
    pack, esp with large frames and/or bigger wheels/tires since there is
    no give in the sides. Also, the feeling is the soft case offered
    better protection than the hard one; you can pack some soft material
    in the pockets on the outside of the bag and get some better
    cushioning. The hard case is not really hard - the case flexes some -
    which is the reason for the piers to hold the sides out and prevent
    them from flexing into the bike. There have been a number of
    incidents reported where airport security have opened the cases and
    have not realigned the piers in the case before closing, effectively
    leaving the case free to transmit any bumps to the bike encased
    inside. As for other cases, some folks have reported buying
    Samsonite cases of the proper dimensions and using those successfully.
    Basically, all you need is a case that is 26"x26"x10" - but those
    dimensions may not be all that common in the luggage industry.

    - rick

    On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:32:23 -0000, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hi!
    I suspect this may have been asked before, but I have not found the
    previous discussion. Anyway, I am having a new custom Audax bike built for
    me and am considering having S&S torque couplings fitted. Does anyone have
    any experience of S&S torque couplings? Are they as good as claimed, or are
    there drawbacks? Also if I did have them and wanted to have a pretty strong
    case for protection in aircraft, is there a good cheaper alternative (e.g.
    some brand of ordinary suitcase at an ordinary price) that could be used
    instead of the "official" case?

    Thanks very much for any advice

    Rudi

  4. Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:
    Rudi Lutz said:

    Hi!
    I suspect this may have been asked before, but I have not


    found the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    previous discussion. Anyway, I am having a new custom Audax bike


    built for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    me and am considering having S&S tor que couplings fitted. Does


    anyone have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    any experience of S&S torque couplings? Are they as good as


    claimed, or are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    there drawbacks? Also if I did have them and wanted to have a


    pretty strong

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    case for protection in aircraft, is there a good che aper


    alternative (e.g.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    some brand of ordinary suitcase at an ordinary price) that could be


    used

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    instead of the "official" case?

    Quoted message said:

    They are the best way to make the frame foldable, period. They are
    secure, easy to use, the resulting frame rides normally.
    We have done a few coupled S&S frames and the 'official' case, with


    the

    Quoted message said:

    things it comes with, is the best solution by far.

    I read somewhere, can't recall where, that the Ritchey case for their
    foldable is a better case for S&S coupled bicycles than either S&S
    case.

    Has anyone experience with the Ritchey foldable, case or bicycle, in
    comparison? The coupling system is certainly much less expensive and
    lighter. Many custom Japanese builders have long had similar systems,
    the basic idea for which all got in turn from Herse.ˇ

  5. I heard the same thing that the Ritchey case was easier for S&S bikes.
    That's probably because it's slightly larger than the S&S cases.
    Strictly speaking, it's larger than the allowable limits (2" too big)
    though Ritchey claims the airlines let you slide. IMO it is not right
    for Ritchey to claim their case is airline legal when they know darn
    well it's not, but that's a different topic.

  6. 41 said:

    Qui Si Parla Campagnolo wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Rudi Lutz wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I suspect this may have been asked before, but I have not
    found the previous discussion. Anyway, I am having a new custom
    Audax bike built for me and am considering having S&S tor que
    couplings fitted. Does anyone have any experience of S&S torque
    couplings? Are they as good as claimed, or are there drawbacks?
    Also if I did have them and wanted to have a pretty strong case for
    protection in aircraft, is there a good che aper alternative (e.g.
    some brand of ordinary suitcase at an ordinary price) that could be
    used instead of the "official" case?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    They are the best way to make the frame foldable, period. They are
    secure, easy to use, the resulting frame rides normally.
    We have done a few coupled S&S frames and the 'official' case, with
    the things it comes with, is the best solution by far.

    Quoted message said:

    I read somewhere, can't recall where, that the Ritchey case for their
    foldable is a better case for S&S coupled bicycles than either S&S
    case.

    Quoted message said:

    Has anyone experience with the Ritchey foldable, case or bicycle, in
    comparison? The coupling system is certainly much less expensive and
    lighter. Many custom Japanese builders have long had similar systems,
    the basic idea for which all got in turn from Herse.?

    I'm sort of in the market for one of these bikes too. Ritchey does seem to have
    the bike and case packaged a little better, but as mentioned the case is
    technically oversized. The Ritchey case is collapsible but I think the S&S soft
    case is too.

    Also, while Ritchey's system is simpler and lighter, the bottom coupler looks
    inadequate to me. I worry about wear/corrosion problems because of the bare
    steel on steel interface, and no provision for torque loads in the downtube.
    The S&S coupler solves both these problems.

    That said, you can get a Dahon branded Ritchey bike for a lot less. It has 105
    instead of Ultegra but for several hundred dollars less who cares -- they're
    functionally identical.

    Actually I'd like to have a Ti frame with S&S couplers, so I don't have to worry
    about paint being scratched, which is inevitable with a travel bike. I've seen
    some steel S&S bikes that were pretty beat up looking.

    I've ridden an S&S bike. Indeed there's no difference from a normal one, except
    for a few extra ounces.

    Matt O.

  7. Per 41:

    Quoted message said:

    Has anyone experience with the Ritchey foldable, case or bicycle, in
    comparison? The coupling system is certainly much less expensive and
    lighter.

    Yes. I've got one bike with each system.

    No comparison. S&S wins hands-down for me.

    If I'd seen the Ritchey system up close before ordering the bike I got it on I
    would have held off until I found a builder that did S&S.

    I gave a little rant on this in another thread....but can't recall the Subject
    line.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  8. Rudi Lutz said:

    Hi!
    I suspect this may have been asked before, but I have not found the
    previous discussion. Anyway, I am having a new custom Audax bike built for
    me and am considering having S&S torque couplings fitted. Does anyone have
    any experience of S&S torque couplings? Are they as good as claimed, or are
    there drawbacks? Also if I did have them and wanted to have a pretty strong
    case for protection in aircraft, is there a good cheaper alternative (e.g.
    some brand of ordinary suitcase at an ordinary price) that could be used
    instead of the "official" case?


    I've installed S+S couplers and sold many, both in tandems
    and singles. Yes they are exactly as described - quick,
    simple, rigid, trouble free ( at least for the first ten or
    so years so far!)

    After exhaustive searches through scientific instrument
    cases, musician's cases, etc I think S+S has the perfect
    answer to a carry-on hard case for a bike. The problem is
    daunting any other way.

    One modern drawback - If by chance a security goon removes
    your S+S bicycle from its case it is very unlikely to go
    back in. I don't have any suggestion for that. The case is
    absolutely as small as it can possibly be and force doesn't
    help.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  9. I am in the process. Steel frame at shop being retro fitted with
    couplers. I called Sands Machine on the phone to ask the hard/soft
    case question. They were clear in saying that the hard case provides
    the best protection. I found a used one and bought it. Time will
    tell. Some in my bike club really like the soft case and have had no
    crush problems so far. Just to add a bit of info, even if the hard
    case is the best protection, even empty it is one heavy sucker...with
    wheels. The soft case has backpack straps, but does not have wheels.

  10. eflayer2 said:

    I am in the process. Steel frame at shop being retro fitted with
    couplers. I called Sands Machine on the phone to ask the hard/soft
    case question. They were clear in saying that the hard case provides
    the best protection. I found a used one and bought it. Time will
    tell. Some in my bike club really like the soft case and have had no
    crush problems so far. Just to add a bit of info, even if the hard
    case is the best protection, even empty it is one heavy sucker...with
    wheels. The soft case has backpack straps, but does not have wheels.

    Hard vs soft case... For a regular bike, I have both a hard case
    (Trico Ironcase) and a soft case (Pika Packworks). While the hard case
    my theoretically protect the bike better, I prefer the soft case. The
    soft case is much lighter, easier to handle, easier to store
    (especially when travelling), and easier to carry. I've never had
    anything break on the bike with it. It takes a little longer to pack.
    I believe most pros use soft packs. I got the Pika because it was
    recommended by some USPS riders to me and it was what they personally
    used.

  11. Eagle Jackson said:

    I got the Pika because it was
    recommended by some USPS riders to me and it was what they personally
    used.

    They get free bikes and probably free cases too! Bike breaks in transit,
    heck, they got more.

    --
    Skuke
    Reverse the domain name to send email

  12. Maybe, just maybe, they recommended the Pika pack because they really
    liked it!

  13. Eagle Jackson said:

    Maybe, just maybe, they recommended the Pika pack because they really
    liked it!

    Nah. I'm too cynical to believe that. :-)

    I've traveled on several occasions using a hard case. They are heavy,
    cumbersome, difficult to store, hard to manuever, and hard to fit into a
    vehicle. But I trust them to get my bike to my destination and back home
    without a scratch.

    I worked with a woman who previously owned a bike touring company with her
    husband. They traveled a lot with bikes as a result. She had a soft case
    and wound up at some destination with two destroyed wheels. She's been
    using hard cases ever since and has not had a problem.

    Getting home with trashed wheels would be a real bummer. But arriving at
    your vacation destination with trashed wheels pretty much could ruin the
    beginning of the trip if not the whole thing if it were a short duration
    trip.
    --
    Skuke
    Reverse the domain name to send email

  14. Some genereal comments on couplers and cases -

    I have three bikes with S&S couplers (just didn't know when to stop)
    and I believe completely in the S&S system. I lube them with a couple
    of drops of the recommended teflon treatment once a year and they stay
    tightly closed. I had a Landshark retrofitted with couplers and could
    not feel any difference in ride or handling afterwards. I've never
    owned a Ritchey Breakway, but a couple of owners have told me they find
    the connectors fiddly, and I'd agree that the lower bracket does not
    inspire confidence.

    I agree with the previous poster's comments about ti's suitability for
    a travel bike - I have a Roark ti that looks as good after 12 trips
    around the world as it did when new. No paint to scratch! Other things
    do inevitably get scratched in transit so you might want to go easy on
    carbon fiber components, whose structural integrity can possibly be
    compromised by surface damage. I also recommend that you consider a
    compact style frame for slightly easier packing, and slightly
    deeper-vee/stronger wheels with a lower spoke count, especially if you
    use the S&S hard case (see below). At first I shied away from
    threadless headsets, due to concern about adjusting them on the road,
    but then I realized if you just left the stem in place no adjustment
    should be needed.

    A couple of previous posters mentioned they had read positive comments
    awhile back about the Ritchey case, and I suspect they may have been
    referring to a post I wrote in response to somebody trying to decide
    between S&S's hard and soft case.

    I have owned TWO S&S hard cases and I hated both of them. The wheels
    wobble so badly the case threatens to tip over at any moment. The
    latching hardware is s**t - every single clip on my two cases has
    turned into a pile of loose hardware at some point in time (usually
    when it's least convenient). The typical packing configuration leaves
    the cassette sitting upright in the middle of the case where it
    threatens to scratch anything near it no matter how much you swaddle it
    in padding.

    The case barely holds a 700c rim with a deflated tire. I found that I
    really needed to remove the tire completely from the upper rim to
    comfortably seat the lid of the case. If you don't, the wheel will
    stick inside the lid when the case is opened, which pops open the
    stress-relief inserts. And I guaranee you the TSA inspectors are not
    going to re-set those inserts before they reclose your case. Once I
    discovered my wheel was badly taco'd after transit although there was
    no visible damage to the case. This is why I suggested deeper-vee rims.
    Low spoke count would make it easier to position the stress-relievers
    and easier to stuff clothing and small parts through the wheels to
    recapture wasted packing space.

    By contrast the Ritchey case neatly hides the cassette in a half-round
    cup that sticks out the back of the case. The case is just an inch or
    two bigger than the S&S case but everything seems to fit MUCH more
    easily, including my shorts and jerseys (convenient padding), shoes,
    and helmet (try that in an S&S case). There are several handy inner
    pockets, and a collapsible plastic wall around the perimeter seems to
    keep undue pressure off the goodies inside.

    Two negatives on the Ritchey case: It's apparently slightly oversize by
    official airline standards (but mine has never been questioned over the
    course of 5 round-the-world trips). And it doesn't have wheels. Of
    course you could use a standard baggage trolley if you needed to.

    Hope this is helpful.

    P.S. I have a Bike Friday AirFriday too. Any offers?

  15. Maybe the ticket is the deluxe case from Ritchey. Soft case with
    wheels:
    http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Breakaway+Travel+Bag+Deluxe+with+wheels&vendorCode=RITCHEY&major=9&minor=1

    Rudi Lutz said:

    Hi!
    I suspect this may have been asked before, but I have not found


    the

    Quoted message said:

    previous discussion. Anyway, I am having a new custom Audax bike


    built for

    Quoted message said:

    me and am considering having S&S torque couplings fitted. Does anyone


    have

    Quoted message said:

    any experience of S&S torque couplings? Are they as good as claimed,


    or are

    Quoted message said:

    there drawbacks? Also if I did have them and wanted to have a pretty


    strong

    Quoted message said:

    case for protection in aircraft, is there a good cheaper alternative


    (e.g.

    Quoted message said:

    some brand of ordinary suitcase at an ordinary price) that could be


    used

    Quoted message said:

    instead of the "official" case?

    Thanks very much for any advice

    Rudi

  16. eflayer2 said:

    Maybe the ticket is the deluxe case from Ritchey. Soft case with
    wheels:

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Breakaway+Travel+Bag+Deluxe+with+wheels&vendorCode=RITCHEY&major=9&minor=1

    How about the S&S soft case with the backpack straps?

    Matt O.

  17. Per Matt O'Toole:

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Breakaway+Travel+Bag+Deluxe+with+wheels&vendorCode=RITCHEY&major=9&minor=1

    How about the S&S soft case with the backpack straps?

    I keep bringing this up.... but nobody ever replies: How about two cases - both
    of which are within regular luggage limits.

    Given a breakdown bike and a willingness to stuff clothes and whatever in with
    the bike it seems like two cases would have a substantial advantage in handling
    ease, packability into a car, and re-packing ease for the luggage checkers
    (assuming they would wind up more than large enough for each "half" of the
    bike....)...

    Since nobody seems db doing it, there's probably a flaw in the above
    reasoning...but what?
    --
    PeteCresswell

  18. My impression is that if you have a coupled bike, it is difficult to
    find a case that is within the 63 inch airline guideline. If you find
    normal luggage big enough to hold a 700 c wheel (27 inches), the
    rectangle usually will be bigger than 63 inches. Do a google on
    luggage and try to find something at least 27" high. There is not much
    out there and if it is, it is usually too long to fit under the
    guidelines. That's why the s and s hard case is so well known cause it
    is almost the only one that fits the 63 inch guideline. Now, granted,
    it sounds like most airlines will let a little bigger go through, but
    I'd hate to be the one they measure and say, "sorry, that will be an
    extra $80." On the other hand, most annecdotal eveidence would suggest
    they never measure if you are in the ball park, which is why Ritchey
    can probably get by with a slightly larger than conforming bag.

    (Pete Cresswell) said:

    Per Matt O'Toole:

    http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Breakaway+Travel+Bag+Deluxe+with+wheels&vendorCode=RITCHEY&major=9&minor=1

    Quoted message said:


    How about the S&S soft case with the backpack straps?

    I keep bringing this up.... but nobody ever replies: How about two


    cases - both

    Quoted message said:

    of which are within regular luggage limits.

    Given a breakdown bike and a willingness to stuff clothes and


    whatever in with

    Quoted message said:

    the bike it seems like two cases would have a substantial advantage


    in handling

    Quoted message said:

    ease, packability into a car, and re-packing ease for the luggage


    checkers

    Quoted message said:

    (assuming they would wind up more than large enough for each "half"


    of the

    Quoted message said:

    bike....)...

    Since nobody seems db doing it, there's probably a flaw in the above
    reasoning...but what?
    --
    PeteCresswell

  19. eflayer2 said:

    My impression is that if you have a coupled bike, it is difficult to
    find a case that is within the 63 inch airline guideline. If you find
    normal luggage big enough to hold a 700 c wheel (27 inches), the
    rectangle usually will be bigger than 63 inches.

    The usual limit is 157.5 cm (62.01"😉 for (l + w + h), see:
    http://www.delta.com/travel/plan/baggage_info/allowances_onflight/index.jsp
    for one example.
    That makes it very difficult to meet with standard 700c or 27" wheels
    since the wheels themselves would be about 54" for l + h, leaving only
    8" for width.

    Quoted message said:

    Do a google on
    luggage and try to find something at least 27" high. There is not much
    out there and if it is, it is usually too long to fit under the
    guidelines. That's why the s and s hard case is so well known cause it
    is almost the only one that fits the 63 inch guideline. Now, granted,
    it sounds like most airlines will let a little bigger go through, but
    I'd hate to be the one they measure and say, "sorry, that will be an
    extra $80." On the other hand, most annecdotal eveidence would suggest
    they never measure if you are in the ball park, which is why Ritchey
    can probably get by with a slightly larger than conforming bag.

    Or even if you're considerably over. I've flown several times with my
    folding kayak that fits in a bag which measures 48" x 14" x 18" or a
    total of 80". I've always been questioned about the weight (which is
    within the 50 lb. guidelines), but so far no one has even commented on
    the size.

  20. I believe the ss hard case is 26x26x10 which makes it fit the limit.
    And from what I hear the deflated 700c's have to be stuffed in there.
    But people have been using them a long time so it must work ok,,,even
    if a bit of a hassle.

    Peter said:
    eflayer2 said:

    My impression is that if you have a coupled bike, it is difficult


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    find a case that is within the 63 inch airline guideline. If you


    find

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    normal luggage big enough to hold a 700 c wheel (27 inches), the
    rectangle usually will be bigger than 63 inches.

    The usual limit is 157.5 cm (62.01"😉 for (l + w + h), see:


    http://www.delta.com/travel/plan/baggage_info/allowances_onflight/index.jsp

    Quoted message said:

    for one example.
    That makes it very difficult to meet with standard 700c or 27" wheels

    Quoted message said:

    since the wheels themselves would be about 54" for l + h, leaving


    only

    Quoted message said:

    8" for width.

    Quoted message said:

    Do a google on
    luggage and try to find something at least 27" high. There is not


    much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    out there and if it is, it is usually too long to fit under the
    guidelines. That's why the s and s hard case is so well known


    cause it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is almost the only one that fits the 63 inch guideline. Now,


    granted,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it sounds like most airlines will let a little bigger go through,


    but

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'd hate to be the one they measure and say, "sorry, that will be


    an

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    extra $80." On the other hand, most annecdotal eveidence would


    suggest

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they never measure if you are in the ball park, which is why


    Ritchey

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    can probably get by with a slightly larger than conforming bag.

    Or even if you're considerably over. I've flown several times with


    my

    Quoted message said:

    folding kayak that fits in a bag which measures 48" x 14" x 18" or a
    total of 80". I've always been questioned about the weight (which is

    Quoted message said:

    within the 50 lb. guidelines), but so far no one has even commented


    on

    Quoted message said:

    the size.

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