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RYE BREAD

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
11 June 2007
Last activity
14 June 2007
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  1. RJ said:

    I dug out the ABM, and I'm ready to make
    some pumpernickle rye bread.

    It would be impossible with the ABM. There are two types of
    pumpernickel, a Westfalian bread, nowadays. Both are made with coarse
    whole grain rye meal. The traditional kind, as exaemplified by the
    Prünte brand (see <http://www.pruente-brot.de/index759a.html>😉 is made
    by soaking the meal in hot water for several hours until the meal swells
    up. Neither yeast nor any sourdough starter is added. The dough is
    then briefly baked in sealed baking forms at about 200°C (400°F) and
    then baked (actually more like cooked) further for many hours (16-20) at
    very low temperatures (100-120°C/200-240°F). The sugars in the meal
    caramelise after such a long baking, giving the pumpernickel its dark
    colour and sweetish taste.

    The modern version, represented, for example, by the Delba brand, is
    designed for a much shorter baking time and is made with an addition of
    sourdough starter, yeast, and barley malt extract. Since little colour
    develops during the much shorter baking time, beet-sugar syrup is also
    added.

    Quoted message said:

    So far, recipes I've seen call for
    strong coffee, or cocoa powder
    to get the deep brown color.

    The modern idea of black or very dark coloured bread is to some extent a
    misunderstanding, I think. In Russia, for example, 'black' bread isn't
    really black, when made traditionally, i.e. with no colouring or sugar
    of any kind added. The distinction between black and white bread is
    more social than visual, for rye bread used to be a lot cheaper and
    lower classes could afford to buy it regularly. Of course, bread made
    with dark rye flour will always be darker than the one made with wheat
    flour, but it won't be black or even very dark. There is also grey
    bread, made with a mix of rye and wheat flour. Nowadays, all kinds of
    bread are to be found in Russia, though - and some are really dark,
    because of the colouring added.

    Quoted message said:

    I can't picture the old Slavs or Germans
    adding coffee or cocoa to their bread mix.
    For one thing, it's got to affect the flavor.

    They didn't, though nowadays some of them do.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone have a "classic" dark rye recipe ?

    A "classic" dark rye recipe would presume the use of a traditional oven,
    preferably Russian oven with its slowly, steadily falling temperature.
    Of the modern-day oven probably one Aga might prove to be an acceptable
    replacement.

    Here is one from a Russian cookbook (not available in any translation)
    and which I posted some 7 or 8 years ago.

    Russian Black Rye Bread

    Starter (made a day or two in advance):
    25 g (0.9 oz) yeast
    1.5 l (6.3 US cups) lukewarm water
    500 g (1.1 US pounds) dark rye flour

    Dissolve the yeast in water, pour in the flour, mix thoroughly and beat
    or knead to make dough. Leave in a warm place for 7-8 hours.
    Use this starter to repeat the process over and over again, for several
    days, if you wish to get a more acidic bread.

    Bread:
    starter (as above)
    8 kg (17.7 US pounds) flour
    4 l (4.2 US quarts) lukewarm water
    80 g (0.3 oz) salt

    Dissolve the starter in some water and add it to the rest of the water
    in the dough-trough. Add 1/3 of the flour, mix and knead thoroughly.
    Level the surface of the dough, sprinkle it with some flour, cover and
    leave to rise in a warm place for 12-14 hours. Add salt and the rest of
    the flour and knead thoroughly again. Let rise in a warm place again.
    When the dough has doubled or tripled in bulk and started to form
    bubbles, it's time to heat the oven. The oven is hot enough when some
    flour thrown in it becomes charred. Form a round or oval-shaped loaf,
    place it on a peel covered with bran or cabbage leaves, smooth out the
    surface of the loaf, sprinkling it with water, let rise a bit and put it
    in the oven, sliding it off the peel. Bake until ready (you can check
    it by piercing the dough with a firm straw or wooden splinter; when the
    straw comes out with no traces of the dough on it, the bread is ready).

    In some villages, potatoes are added to the bread (for 4 kg flour -
    1.5 l water, 1 kg potatoes, 40 g salt). Potatoes are boiled, then
    peeled, mashed or put through the grinder, and added to the dough at the
    same time as the first 1/3 of the flour).

    Scalded Black Rye Bread

    The same ingredients as above, plus caraway seeds to taste are used.

    Dilute the starter in lukewarm water. In the dough-through, pour in 1/3
    of the flour, then pour in *boiling* water, mix well, cover with a cloth
    and leave in a warm place for 2-3 hours. Add the diluted starter, mix
    and knead thoroughly and leave in a warm place for 16-18 hours. Add
    salt, the rest of the flour and the caraway, knead well again and leave
    again in a warm place. Continue as in the recipe above.

    Victor

  2. [email hidden] (Victor Sack) wrote in news:1hzm920.o2uc97kl63eoN%
    [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    It would be impossible with the ABM. There are two types of
    pumpernickel

    What about the scarlet pumpernickel...that Wayne and Shouster comedy
    routine that play on xmas day for years during my youth...You never even
    mentioned it.

    --

    The house of the burning beet-Alan

    It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
    Elbonian Folklore

  3. (Victor Sack) said:

    Scalded Black Rye Bread

    The same ingredients as above, plus caraway seeds to taste are used.

    Dilute the starter in lukewarm water. In the dough-through, pour in 1/3
    of the flour, then pour in *boiling* water, mix well, cover with a cloth
    and leave in a warm place for 2-3 hours. Add the diluted starter, mix
    and knead thoroughly and leave in a warm place for 16-18 hours. Add
    salt, the rest of the flour and the caraway, knead well again and leave
    again in a warm place. Continue as in the recipe above.

    Victor

    I really appreciate your again posting this recipe as I had not seen
    it, as well as your further clarification of the breads. It is a
    recipe I will try.

    In the above second pargraph, I am not sure what the "dough-through"
    means. Can you clarify.
    Many thanks.
    Dee Dee

  4. hahabogus said:
    (Victor Sack) said:

    It would be impossible with the ABM. There are two types of
    pumpernickel

    What about the scarlet pumpernickel...that Wayne and Shouster comedy
    routine that play on xmas day for years during my youth...You never even
    mentioned it.

    Wasn't there a comic strip of that name? That would make 'em two
    types...

    Victor

  5. Dee Dee said:
    (Victor Sack) said:

    Scalded Black Rye Bread

    The same ingredients as above, plus caraway seeds to taste are used.

    Dilute the starter in lukewarm water. In the dough-through, pour in 1/3
    of the flour, then pour in *boiling* water, mix well, cover with a cloth
    and leave in a warm place for 2-3 hours. Add the diluted starter, mix
    and knead thoroughly and leave in a warm place for 16-18 hours. Add
    salt, the rest of the flour and the caraway, knead well again and leave
    again in a warm place. Continue as in the recipe above.

    I really appreciate your again posting this recipe as I had not seen
    it, as well as your further clarification of the breads. It is a
    recipe I will try.

    In the above second pargraph, I am not sure what the "dough-through"
    means. Can you clarify.

    It was my misspelling... it is dough-trough (correctly spelt in the
    first recipe). It is a wooden container for preparing and kneading the
    dough, a shallow bucket, tub or trough. Here is a picture of one, but
    there were and still are many other types:
    <http://www.gramota.ru/book/village/images/kvasnja.gif>.

    The dough-trough is never supposed to be washed; it always has to retain
    some leftovers of the old sourdough which serve as a starter. This does
    not mean that still more starter cannot be added.

    Victor

  6. (Victor Sack) said:

    Here is a picture of one, but
    there were and still are many other types:
    <http://www.gramota.ru/book/village/images/kvasnja.gif>.

    The dough-trough is never supposed to be washed; it always has to retain
    some leftovers of the old sourdough which serve as a starter. This does
    not mean that still more starter cannot be added.

    Victor- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Many thanks for the added information/explanation.
    Dee Dee

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