Running Routes - Design

I doubt if much of runs would be in a street-map program.
I try to run on scenic mountain, river, and trails as
much as possible.

Aftyer a year or two of running one becomes a pretty
good judge of pace, time and distance. I usually know
all three pretty well without needing technical aid.

Wow. That's amazing Rick.

I've been running for about 3 years but I still cannot tell the difference between 19km and say 21km. Nor 24km - 26 km, 30km-32km. My pace varies week to week and I would never be able to verify what I did or did not run. I can tell between short distances but when I am out there for the long runs, I loose track somewhere after an hour and a half.

I've thought about using a Forerunner to enable me to go off-road and still be able to keep track of distance.
http://www.garmin.com/products/forerunner301/

I have quite a few maps I have made (100+) of varying distance that I pull from. I try to keep it fresh every week and run something new.

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I doubt if much of runs would be in a street-map program.
I try to run on scenic mountain, river, and trails as
much as possible.

Aftyer a year or two of running one becomes a pretty
good judge of pace, time and distance. I usually know
all three pretty well without needing technical aid.

Thanks for the hint, Heloise.

William Ducklow said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a route
that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and take it
with me on my run.

Why not just get in your car and drive out the mileage?
tell you a lot more about a route than using a computer...

Quoted message said:

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software
program? Do you run by time? GPS?

I generally bike or hike the routes I then run, so
I know the distance and terrain. Always prefer to
get off the roads.

William Ducklow wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a route
that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and take it
with me on my run.

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software
program? Do you run by time? GPS?

About 20 years ago I read a book (don't remember which) that talked about
runners becoming obsessed with pace and distance. The author suggested
recording either distance or time, but not both. Since then I record only
time for 99% of my exercise, including running and cycling.

More recently I also frequently record heart rate average as a general gauge
of effort, which works better than pace since I run on trails that would be
difficult to measure with even a GPS or bike computer. For my long runs I
have a goal time and goal effort range, say 2 1/2 hours keeping the heart
rate under 145.

For runners who must know their flat-pavement paces well for road races, a
more regular checking of pace is important, but the above advice is well
taken by all runners IMO.

-Tony

William Ducklow said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a

route

Quoted message said:

that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and

take it

Quoted message said:

with me on my run.

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software

Quoted message said:

program? Do you run by time? GPS?

Yes, yes, and yes.

I'm one of those obsessive types when it comes to running pace/time,
etc. I do realize the limitations of software and GPS devices. In spite
of that, I get a kick out of playing with the data. If it's a route
that I have never run before, then I do what you do. I use Garmin
MapSource to get an approximation of the distance. If it's a
complicated route (lots of turns), then I'll paste the turns onto
notepad and crop it down to a 3" x 3" piece of paper and tuck it into
my lumbar pack. I use a ForeRunner 201 gps while running. I then import
the tracks onto Garmin MapSource. I also use MotionBased at
http://www.motionbased.com to overlay the tracks onto a satellite photo
or a street map and to share it with the rest of the world. If it's a
trail run I'll just collect the data on my GPS and use it for the next
time I run the same trail. If it's a trail that someone else has
uploaded to motionbased.com, then I'll use that to set the GPS
waypoints.

My wife once asked me why I don't just run out the door and turn around
at the halfway point. My teenage son butted in with, "Don't bother
turning around." Do you think I need therapy?

Phil M.

Phil M. said:

Do you think I need therapy?

Have you ever seen Tony Shalhoub in "Monk"?

for a new route, or if I'm running somewhere unfamiliar (e.g., getting
a run in while on a trip), then I just go by time. I also have found
park trails with mileage marked off. (granted these are paved trails,
not dirt paths, so little difference from road running except the
scenery)

I have checked out mileage using a car, but I never have used a map or
GPS for my routes. I have checked the mapped route of a race using the
car also.

Part of the fun of running without a map is the adventure of not kowing
what is ahead. Doing that, even in big city runs, I have seen deer, and
other animals, rivers and streams, and beautiful sunsets and scary
storms.

I record my runs and really just track mileage. IOW, I track the miles
Year-To-Date, but not other totals. It's all on paper, though I keep
thinking I should put it in a spreadsheet to make nice charts and
graphs. But I'm happy now, just running along.

Enjoy,
Ed

<Bill Murray/Stripes voice> "Yes, Sir! Ruuunning Therapy, Sir!" </voice>

Something aerobic and about 8.xx miles give or take .005? Come on. Wada ya
say?

<smiles all the way>
Piedmont Donald

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<much snipage>
My wife once asked me why I don't just run out the door and turn around
at the halfway point. My teenage son butted in with, "Don't bother
turning around." Do you think I need therapy?

Phil M.

Tom Phillips said:

Phil M. said:

Do you think I need therapy?

Have you ever seen Tony Shalhoub in "Monk"?

I look exactly like that guy.

Phil M.

Phil M. said:

William Ducklow said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a

route

Quoted message said:

that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and

take it

Quoted message said:

with me on my run.

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software

Quoted message said:

program? Do you run by time? GPS?

Yes, yes, and yes.

I'm one of those obsessive types when it comes to running pace/time,
etc. I do realize the limitations of software and GPS devices. In spite
of that, I get a kick out of playing with the data. If it's a route

i hear you brother! Every day i go out i say to myself "leave the stupid
GPS at home" but i bring it every run. and i find myself checking my
pace every minute and if it shows i'm going slower than i feel i curse
the GPS as inaccurate and if it says i'm running faster i brighten up
and pat myself on the back for the effort i'm putting in.

Quoted message said:

that I have never run before, then I do what you do. I use Garmin
MapSource to get an approximation of the distance. If it's a
complicated route (lots of turns), then I'll paste the turns onto
notepad and crop it down to a 3" x 3" piece of paper and tuck it into
my lumbar pack. I use a ForeRunner 201 gps while running. I then import
the tracks onto Garmin MapSource. I also use MotionBased at
http://www.motionbased.com to overlay the tracks onto a satellite photo
or a street map and to share it with the rest of the world. If it's a
trail run I'll just collect the data on my GPS and use it for the next
time I run the same trail. If it's a trail that someone else has
uploaded to motionbased.com, then I'll use that to set the GPS
waypoints.

My wife once asked me why I don't just run out the door and turn around
at the halfway point. My teenage son butted in with, "Don't bother
turning around." Do you think I need therapy?

Phil M.

Phil M. said:

Tom Phillips said:

Phil M. said:

Do you think I need therapy?

Have you ever seen Tony Shalhoub in "Monk"?

I look exactly like that guy.

My, what a strange (er, handsome) looking
runner 😉

He's was also a runner, ya know. But an
obsessive compulsive geeky phobic runner
(you had to see the episode...)

I use a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet to keep track of my runs. Here is the
website.

http://www.davidhays.net/running/runlog/runlog.html

I am aware that most of you already use this or have heard of it, but for
posterity I thought I should add a link to this thread.

"William Ducklow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a route
that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and take it
with me on my run.

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software
program? Do you run by time? GPS?

I do all three. I sometimes use Streets & Trips to get a close
approximation of where I want to run and then take a GPS to track actual
distance. After I've run a circuit with my GPS then I know how long it
is and don't need the GPS anymore. Other times, I just run for a certain
time and know approximately how far it was based on my pace.

William Ducklow said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a route
that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and take it
with me on my run.

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software
program? Do you run by time? GPS?

"William Ducklow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a route
that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and take it
with me on my run.

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software
program? Do you run by time? GPS?

I have run on time, but often pick a route (we do a lot of out and back
runs) depending on what everyone wants to do (terrain-wise).

Lately I have been using GPS to allow more freedom to go as I feel in terms
of what path to take.

Some people do not run on streets for long runs for instance so that program
would be useless.

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I doubt if much of runs would be in a street-map program.
I try to run on scenic mountain, river, and trails as
much as possible.

Aftyer a year or two of running one becomes a pretty
good judge of pace, time and distance. I usually know
all three pretty well without needing technical aid.

be careful with that assumption. I have been running for almost 30 years
and tend to overestimate running pace. Others report the same thing when
they either use GPS or follow up a run with a calibrated bike computer. It
especially gets tricky when one starts to run on trails where the terrain
varies. I am willing to bet that most people would overestimate the
distance covered in a long run (assuming no mile markers).

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

William Ducklow said:

Hello everyone.

For my long runs, I sit down with MS Streets & Trips and design a

route

Quoted message said:

that matches the distance of what I want to run. I print that and

take it

Quoted message said:

with me on my run.

I have always wondered what everyone else does. Do you use a software

Quoted message said:

program? Do you run by time? GPS?

Yes, yes, and yes.

I'm one of those obsessive types when it comes to running pace/time,
etc. I do realize the limitations of software and GPS devices. In spite
of that, I get a kick out of playing with the data. If it's a route
that I have never run before, then I do what you do. I use Garmin
MapSource to get an approximation of the distance. If it's a
complicated route (lots of turns), then I'll paste the turns onto
notepad and crop it down to a 3" x 3" piece of paper and tuck it into
my lumbar pack. I use a ForeRunner 201 gps while running. I then import
the tracks onto Garmin MapSource. I also use MotionBased at
http://www.motionbased.com to overlay the tracks onto a satellite photo
or a street map and to share it with the rest of the world. If it's a
trail run I'll just collect the data on my GPS and use it for the next
time I run the same trail. If it's a trail that someone else has
uploaded to motionbased.com, then I'll use that to set the GPS
waypoints.

My wife once asked me why I don't just run out the door and turn around
at the halfway point. My teenage son butted in with, "Don't bother
turning around." Do you think I need therapy?

Phil M.

Your son's comment made me laugh out loud! Thanks.

Therapy might not help you; sometimes people are too far gone.

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I doubt if much of runs would be in a street-map program.
I try to run on scenic mountain, river, and trails as
much as possible.

It's the only way to fly...

Quoted message said:

Aftyer a year or two of running one becomes a pretty
good judge of pace, time and distance. I usually know
all three pretty well without needing technical aid.

I have two or three mountainous trail runs of 18 to 27 miles and known
elevation change, and I know my typical pace on these runs.

Using these data points, I have a pretty good idea of distance on unfamiliar
routes. That's good enough for me.

Typically, I lose about 8-9 minutes for every 1000' of climb (and equal
descent) on a long trail run.

-- Dan

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from
[email hidden] of 15 Mar 2005:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My wife once asked me why I don't just run out the door and turn around
at the halfway point. My teenage son butted in with, "Don't bother
turning around." Do you think I need therapy?

Phil M.

Your son's comment made me laugh out loud! Thanks.

Teenagers. Gotta love 'em.

Phil M.