running on roads or grass??

When's the marathon?

--
Colm

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
: Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
: Training for my first marathon and have been running on grass and over fields now for a while. It
: has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles for my long run, (taking it slowly). When
: should I start running on roads? Surely not on marathon day!!
:
: Liam
:
:

start now. start with 1 mile on the road on one of your runs. if it feels alright, do it for a few
days more, before increasing the distance. of course, how soon you increase the distance on the
roads will depend on how much time you have left before marathon day.

it might also be helpful if we knew what kind of shoes you are wearing. the specific brand and how
old they are.

jobs

Liam Muldowney <[email hidden]> wrote: ...

Quoted message said:

When should I start running on roads? Surely not on marathon day!!

Quoted message said:

Liam

Liam Muldowney said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running on grass and over fields now for a while. It
has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles for my long run, (taking it slowly). When
should I start running on roads? Surely not on marathon day!!

Liam

I always thougt that blacktop was easier on my legs than concrete. TRails and grass even better! ON
the other hand, grass takes more energy to run through. I'd try to do the long run once a week on
blacktop, at least some of it.

BTW, I cured a bad case of shin-splints a long time ago by changing shoe brands.

--
Bob Burns Mill Hall PA [email hidden]

I would ease into the road running. Asphalt roads might be a little better than concrete roads.

You do not want to get the first long run on marathon day!

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running

on

Quoted message said:

grass and over fields now for a while. It has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles
for my long run, (taking it slowly). When should I start running on roads? Surely not on
marathon day!!

Liam

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running

on

Quoted message said:

grass and over fields now for a while. It has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles
for my long run, (taking it slowly). When should I start running on roads? Surely not on
marathon day!!

The _Runner's World Complete Guide to Trail Running_ mentions an incident of a guy who did all his
marathon training on natural surface trails and wound up with multiple stress fractures in his
pelvis during the race because his bones were not used to the pounding of concrete. So your
instincts are correct--you shouldn't wait until marathon day to hit the street!

That said--shin splints can be caused by many different problems (in fact, there are two different
types of pain that are commonly labeled "shin splints, and they are preventable (even on concrete)
if you know what's causing them in the first place. Some possibilities: too fast a pace, increasing
distance too quickly, overstriding (esp. a problem if you run hills and go too fast on the
downhills), and bad shoes.

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

running on roads or grass??

Running on grass is highly preferable (pun intended) but if you get a low-grade of grass that makes
you cough a lot it can be counterproductive. I smoke 2 doobies of Hydro before my runs, and it works
great for me.

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running

on

Quoted message said:

grass and over fields now for a while. It has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles
for my long run, (taking it slowly). When should I start running on roads? Surely not on
marathon day!!

Liam

Running on grass & trails is great for strengthening some of the smaller muscle groups in your lower
legs & ankles. But road running is not as "harsh" as many claim. I find it easier to run on concrete
& asphalt simply because I can "hear" my foot-falls. When you can hear your foot-falls, you can
adjust easily the hardness of your landing until you're running quiet and soft. On grass, all of my
footfalls are quiet regardless of actual impact. On dirt and crushed gravel, my foot-falls are the
same volume no matter how hard or soft of an impact I make. Thus when I get tired, I don't have that
auditory cue that tells me I'm pounding the ground.

On marathon day, when you start to get tired, be sure to listen to your foot-falls, and adjust your
landing accordingly. It can really reduce orthopedic stress & potential injury. You'll enjoy your
long runs more, and recover faster.

Maybe Ozzie will post something on "running quietly." If not, look in his FAQ.

Good luck.

Liam Muldowney said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running on grass and over fields now for a while. It
has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles for my long run, (taking it slowly). When
should I start running on roads? Surely not on marathon day!!

My brother did all of his training on tracks and trails, and then went to run a marathon. The
marathon was on paved streets. He didn't realize that there is a difference in the surfaces, until
he blew his knees out during the race. That was 6 years ago. He still can't run.

Running on a hard surface requires a different technique. You have to bend more, to absorb the shock
of each landing. That takes more strength in some muscles, and it takes training. It takes time and
training to develop a technique that accommodates the hard surface without over-stressing any part
of your body.

If you are going to race on pavement, you need to train on pavement.

Running on grass is sweet but the darn dog poo is hidden among the grass.

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running

on

Quoted message said:

grass and over fields now for a while. It has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles
for my long run, (taking it slowly). When should I start running on roads? Surely not on
marathon day!!

My take on this may be a bit different than some. I do all my long runs (weather allowing) on
asphalt. The idea is to teach your legs and brain what it feels like to go long on the surface you
will be using on race day. These days, my other runs take place on a treadmill, but I used to mix
that a little bit more, with some runs on the streets around my house. I'm missing the outdoors 🙁,
but the treadmill is actually helping me run faster. 😉

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º
eNo
"If you can't go fast, go long."
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

After tying Salazar's record for marathon debut time with a 2:09 in Chicago, 2002, Alan Culpepper
answered that the one thing he would have done differently in training is to run more on the roads.
Indeed, while trails/grass are easier on you, you can't expect to handle 26.2 on roads if you don't
do any training on roads. My advice would be to continue doing ALMOST ALL of your easy running on
the grass. Start doing some medium-long runs on the pavement for a few weeks, and when you can
handle it start doing your long run and tempo (or most faster-paced) work on the pavement. That way
your body will get used to running long or hard on the pavement and condition itself to handle the
impact, yet the bulk of your training will be lower-impact trails/grass. This will give you the most
"bang for your buck". That all being said, I train nearly 100 mpw all on pavement. But it took me
quite awile to build up to that amount, and it's not by choice. If I had trails to run on I'd be
doing 70 mpw off the pavement and only 30 mpw on the pavement. Andy Hass

"Steve Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Liam Muldowney said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been

running on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

grass and over fields now for a while. It has stopped the shin splints

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm up to ten miles for my long run, (taking it slowly). When should I start running on roads?
Surely not on marathon day!!

My brother did all of his training on tracks and trails, and then went to run a marathon. The
marathon was on paved streets. He didn't realize that there is a difference in the surfaces, until
he blew his knees out during the race. That was 6 years ago. He still can't run.

Running on a hard surface requires a different technique. You have to bend more, to absorb the
shock of each landing. That takes more strength in some muscles, and it takes training. It takes
time and training to develop a technique that accommodates the hard surface without over-stressing
any part of your body.

I would state this a bit differently: you can't get by road running without proper technique, but
even on softer surfaces, one should practice good technique. Road running/racing forces you to use
proper technique because your body immediately complains in the less forgiving environment. During
many of my outdoor asphalt runs, I can sense my body adjusting, until by the end of the run, I can
hardly hear my foot strike. This sort of feedback may be missing on softer surfaces, but, again, one
should still practice proper technique. One reason I like running on treadmills is that even though
the surface is more forgiving, foot-strike tends to be louder, thus providing feedback, if not
through your joints.

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º
eNo
"If you can't go fast, go long."
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

Do most of you live in rural areas? If not, where are you finding all these grass trails to run on?
I live in suburbia, as many do, and grass is hard to come by unless you run across people's lawns,
which has its own risks (or so I hear...).

eNo wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running

on

Quoted message said:

grass and over fields now for a while. It has stopped the shin splints

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm up to ten miles for my long run, (taking it slowly). When should I start running on roads?
Surely not on marathon day!!

My take on this may be a bit different than some. I do all my long runs (weather allowing) on
asphalt. The idea is to teach your legs and brain

what

Quoted message said:

it feels like to go long on the surface you will be using on race day.

These

Quoted message said:

days, my other runs take place on a treadmill, but I used to mix that a little bit more, with some
runs on the streets around my house. I'm missing the outdoors 🙁, but the treadmill is actually
helping me run faster. 😉

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, go
long." ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

It seems to me I heard somewhere that AW wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

"Liam Muldowney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most of the books and magazine articles I've read say that running on concrete is a no no.
Training for my first marathon and have been running

on

Quoted message said:

grass and over fields now for a while. It has stopped the shin splints and I'm up to ten miles
for my long run, (taking it slowly). When should I start running on roads? Surely not on
marathon day!!

Quoted message said:

Running on grass & trails is great for strengthening some of the smaller muscle groups in your
lower legs & ankles. But road running is not as "harsh" as many claim. I find it easier to run on
concrete & asphalt simply because I can "hear" my foot-falls. When you can hear your foot-falls,
you can adjust easily the hardness of your landing until you're running quiet and soft. On grass,
all of my footfalls are quiet regardless of actual impact. On dirt and crushed gravel, my foot-
falls are the same volume no matter how hard or soft of an impact I make. Thus when I get tired, I
don't have that auditory cue that tells me I'm pounding the ground.

A big me too. I've run for about 25 years, 27 marathons, and probably 90% has been on either
concrete or asphalt. I've always thought that between the cushioning in shoes and the natural flex
structure of legs and feet the hardness of the running surface is an insignificant factor. The
surface is also more likely to be even, reducing the possibility of trips and falls.

IMO trails and grass have one advantage--they flex the muscles differently from the hard flat
surfaces, thus adding a touch of cross-stressing and all-around strengthening.

I've had only three problems in those years. I had plantar fasciitis with an incipient spur, but my
podiatrist (whose brother was also a podiatrist and an ultra runner) said it was not related to
running. Later, I had what was apparently adhesions in a thigh muscle--a fall while hiking broke
them loose, they healed within days, and have never come back. And, finally, I'm developing
arthritis in the spine, one hip, and one knee. The knee problem showed up one day after doing some
plumbing repairs, not while I was running, though I needed time off to recover from it. Neither the
spine nor the hip have interfered with running or with golf, where I walk. I've begun running again,
building my mileage, and the knee continues to feel better.
--
Don [email hidden]

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do most of you live in rural areas? If not, where are you finding all

these

Quoted message said:

grass trails to run on? I live in suburbia, as many do, and grass is hard

to

Quoted message said:

come by unless you run across people's lawns, which has its own risks (or

so

Quoted message said:

I hear...).

There was a thread a while back around running in cemeteries... Most urban areas have those. Golf
courses are another avenue if you're fast enough to dodge the errant balls. BTW, all urban all the
time this side of the world.

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º
eNo
"If you can't go fast, go long."
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

I live in a city (Dublin) but in the centre, where I work, is a large park. The perimeter is about 8
miles so it's a perfect lunchtime workout. The perimeter is all trail.

--
Colm

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
: Do most of you live in rural areas? If not, where are you finding all these grass trails to run
: on? I live in suburbia, as many do, and grass is hard to come by unless you run across people's
: lawns, which has its own risks (or so I hear...).