running on an oval track

Bucky said:

In previous years, I've ran on an oval rubber track because I felt it
would be easier on the knees than asphalt. However, last year, I
started feeling some weird tingling sensations around the kneecaps
when I ran. Not really pain, but pretty distracting and disturbing
feeling. I saw an orthopedist about it, but he couldn't really give a
solid diagnosis since it wasn't actually painful.

Anyways, I suspected that it may have been to the leaning on the
curves. I don't run too much, about 3 miles 3x/week. But on the track,
leaning on the curve is about 1/2 the time. And the track is used by
others all the time, so I can only run CCW. My pace is about a 7:30
mile, which results in a significant lean on the curves.

So far this year, I've only ran on straight asphalt roads, and the
tingling sensation is minimal. However, I like running on the track
because I can time the exact distance. But I'm afraid to go to back to
the oval track. Any tips or advice?

Run opposite ways on the track to see if this helps even out the leaning.
Phil

On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:42:58 +1000, PhilS <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bucky said:

In previous years, I've ran on an oval rubber track because I felt it
would be easier on the knees than asphalt. However, last year, I
started feeling some weird tingling sensations around the kneecaps
when I ran. Not really pain, but pretty distracting and disturbing
feeling. I saw an orthopedist about it, but he couldn't really give a
solid diagnosis since it wasn't actually painful.

Anyways, I suspected that it may have been to the leaning on the
curves. I don't run too much, about 3 miles 3x/week. But on the track,
leaning on the curve is about 1/2 the time. And the track is used by
others all the time, so I can only run CCW. My pace is about a 7:30
mile, which results in a significant lean on the curves.

So far this year, I've only ran on straight asphalt roads, and the
tingling sensation is minimal. However, I like running on the track
because I can time the exact distance. But I'm afraid to go to back to
the oval track. Any tips or advice?

Run opposite ways on the track to see if this helps even out the leaning.
Phil

My wellness center rubber 1/10 mile track alternated direction every
other day to try to avoid that problem. However, if you only go on
clockwise days, then.......

Bucky said:

In previous years, I've ran on an oval rubber track because I felt it
would be easier on the knees than asphalt. However, last year, I
started feeling some weird tingling sensations around the kneecaps
when I ran. Not really pain, but pretty distracting and disturbing
feeling. I saw an orthopedist about it, but he couldn't really give a
solid diagnosis since it wasn't actually painful.

Anyways, I suspected that it may have been to the leaning on the
curves. I don't run too much, about 3 miles 3x/week. But on the track,
leaning on the curve is about 1/2 the time. And the track is used by
others all the time, so I can only run CCW. My pace is about a 7:30
mile, which results in a significant lean on the curves.

So far this year, I've only ran on straight asphalt roads, and the
tingling sensation is minimal. However, I like running on the track
because I can time the exact distance. But I'm afraid to go to back to
the oval track. Any tips or advice?

I get the impression that the track you refer to is a smaller
than 1/4 mile track if you're leaning that much of the time. The
obvious answer would be to switch directions, but you said that is
out. Try another track or speak to whoever is in charge and ask if
the track directions can be alternated on alternate days. Another
possibility, don't be so concerned with times, and run on the street
or trails.

Eric

PhilS said:

Quoted message said:

Run opposite ways on the track to see if this helps even out the leaning.
Phil

Yea Phil, how's that going to work with the other runners on the track
in his lane? You should have suggested he run backwards to even things
up.
Actually, it's amazing that he could have any problem on that low of
mileage. If he enjoys the track, I say run the track and work with
what develops. After decades of running on the street facing traffic,
I'm sure permanent changes in my muscles and ligaments have occurred.
If a mere "sensation" in the knees is causing a big distraction, then
he went to the wrong doctor because that is obsessive.

Bucky said:

In previous years, I've ran on an oval rubber track because I felt it
would be easier on the knees than asphalt. However, last year, I
started feeling some weird tingling sensations around the kneecaps
when I ran. Not really pain, but pretty distracting and disturbing
feeling. I saw an orthopedist about it, but he couldn't really give a
solid diagnosis since it wasn't actually painful.

You didn't say how long the track is.

There is way more to running injuries than impact. Softer surfaces aren't
always that much better. Avoiding systematic unevenness (road camber, tight
turns on small tracks) is often more important.

Quoted message said:

tingling sensation is minimal. However, I like running on the track
because I can time the exact distance.

No point timing "exact distance" unless you're doing speed work. If you're
putting the watch on yourself that closely, you're probably also running
too fast. You say you run 7:30 pace ... what's your 10k race pace ? Unless
you're sub 6:30 for 10k, you probably should slow down quite a bit.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

On 2007-04-02, PhilS <[email hidden]> wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And the track is used by
others all the time, so I can only run CCW. My pace is about a 7:30

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Run opposite ways on the track to see if this helps even out the leaning.

'nuff said.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Elflord said:

You didn't say how long the track is.

It's a standard 1/4 mile outdoor track. I know it doesn't look like
it, but the curves really are half of the distance.

Quoted message said:

There is way more to running injuries than impact. Softer surfaces aren't
always that much better. Avoiding systematic unevenness (road camber, tight
turns on small tracks) is often more important.

that's what I've kind of realized the past year. I used to think it
was all about softer surface, but there's more to it.

Quoted message said:

No point timing "exact distance" unless you're doing speed work. If you're
putting the watch on yourself that closely, you're probably also running
too fast. You say you run 7:30 pace ... what's your 10k race pace?

Here's the thing, I don't race. I only run for fitness. The way that I
push myself is to try to decrease my 3 mi time every week from the
beginning of the season to the end. On a track, this is very easy to
pace myself because I can check the exact split every 1/4 mile.

Bucky said:

Here's the thing, I don't race. I only run for fitness. The way that I
push myself is to try to decrease my 3 mi time every week from the
beginning of the season to the end. On a track, this is very easy to
pace myself because I can check the exact split every 1/4 mile.

Any reason why you couldn't just pick landmarks and how long it takes to
run between them? I have a few trail sections (0.5 to 1 mi, but I don't
know exact distance) that get run fairly frequently just cuz of where
they are. Some times I just run them, but other times I may push -
partly depending on that run's objective, partly depending on my mood.

If you're running for fitness, wouldn't that be mostly at conversational
effort? Time trialing on a weekly basis in a "season" sounds a little
more intense and less year round than running for fitness.

Do you run races, but not race them? Lots of people do that for fitness
and fun.

Just a different perspective. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

Dot

--
"The goal is training and adaptation, not destruction and injury."
- John Hardy
http://www.mountainrunning.coolrunning.com.au/misc/training.shtml

Bucky said:

Quoted message said:

No point timing "exact distance" unless you're doing speed work. If you're
putting the watch on yourself that closely, you're probably also running
too fast. You say you run 7:30 pace ... what's your 10k race pace?

Here's the thing, I don't race. I only run for fitness. The way that I
push myself is to try to decrease my 3 mi time every week from the
beginning of the season to the end. On a track, this is very easy to
pace myself because I can check the exact split every 1/4 mile.

Bingo. That's why you're getting injured.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bucky said:

Elflord said:

You didn't say how long the track is.

It's a standard 1/4 mile outdoor track. I know it doesn't look like
it, but the curves really are half of the distance.

Indeed, but at 1/4 mile, they're not so sharp that a 7:30 pace
needs much lean.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No point timing "exact distance" unless you're doing speed work. If you're
putting the watch on yourself that closely, you're probably also running
too fast. You say you run 7:30 pace ... what's your 10k race pace?

Here's the thing, I don't race. I only run for fitness. The way that I
push myself is to try to decrease my 3 mi time every week from the
beginning of the season to the end. On a track, this is very easy to
pace myself because I can check the exact split every 1/4 mile.

As Donovan said: Bingo.

Running for fitness means most, to all, of your mileage is at a
conversational pace. There isn't much health benefit associated
with times (the little that is is more associated with going
anaerobic -- which you can do by weights instead, or by intentional
anaerobic running workouts).

Trying to decrease your 3 mile time every week is a recipe for
injury. (Or the time for any other distance longer than about 1 mile.)

If you _must_ time trial weekly, keep it down to 1 mile, and most of
your mileage conversational. (Most meaning greater than 80%.) If
monthly, then your 3 mile once a month, followed by an easy week that's
all conversational.

It's also the case, per Dot's comment, that, to the extent you need
that feedback of time trials, you can do it on 'from this tree to
that mail box'. The distance won't change between runs, so serves
fine as a reference time.
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

"Bucky" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

So far this year, I've only ran on straight asphalt roads, and
the tingling sensation is minimal. However, I like running on
the track because I can time the exact distance. But I'm afraid
to go to back to the oval track. Any tips or advice?

Track can be lethal. I just discovered I can get injured running
as little as a couple of miles in the CW direction (see my post in
the weekly training run thread).

Although it is not considered optimal, I don't have a problem with
your training approach of running low mileage at a fast pace. But
I'd definitely suggest switching your training runs to asphalt.
You can always go to the track for a single weekly time trial.

Of course, the best way to measure your progress is to actually
race, if you have that opportunity.

(Robert Grumbine) said:

Trying to decrease your 3 mile time every week is a recipe for
injury. (Or the time for any other distance longer than about 1 mile.)
If you _must_ time trial weekly, keep it down to 1 mile, and most of
your mileage conversational.

hmm, I didn't know that. I guess I'll keep the track time trials to a
minimum, or maybe switch to a weekly 1 mile time trial. Then do an
asphalt straightaway the rest of the days. Thanks for everyone's
inputs.