Running & Insurance?

i hope it all works out.
i cann't read this [censored] anymore.
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
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Quoted message said:

I gotta look at my fine print pronto.

That's the key, of course. You've got to shop around with health insurance
just like anything else. Of course, if you're taking your job's group plan,
there's no negotiating for just you -- that has to be done by the company.

On the other hand, I have found it is lots easier to get really good life
insurance at very good rates as a runner, due to the good actuarial-table
figures we present, and the (generally) good cholesterol, heart disease,
diabetes, nonsmoking, etc., etc. figures we present.

Maybe it works out fairly overall? Of course, I completely agree that it is
absurd for runners to pay a higher health insurance rate or to have certain
needed care be considered "excluded" from coverage because we are runners.
Since we have far lower rates of systemic (and far more serious,
life-threatening) ailments, it makes no sense not to cover us for the other
health care costs a few of us incur to gain those systemic benefits.

Oh c'mon, you've read the thousands of injury posts in here. Would you
insure you?

Quoted message said:

Oh c'mon, you've read the thousands of injury posts in here. Would you insure

you?

Yep. I have yet to consult a physician for a running-inflicted ailment despite
MANY years of running. Hey, if most people can get satisfactory answers on
here or by self-treating or reading the right references, why not? For the
most part, runners tend to be the more self-reliant type. The gravity of what
we AVOID by running far outweighs the significance of the occasional "injury."

Lance,
Why not handle this situation (when going for treatment of a running
injury) as you do your sex life, you know, "don't ask, don't tell"?

[email hidden] (Lanceandrew) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was speaking to a fellow runner yesterday on a typical running trail who
mentioned he's not going to be running an upcoming marathon because he "can't
afford to get injured". This gentleman was in his 50's and I knew he worked,
however he later mentioned that his HMO has denied medical payments to health
care providers for services relating to injuries sustained while/from running.

Now I may be late to this and this person tipped me off to this.....but anyone
got the scoop on the status of U.S. Sen. S. 423 "The Health Care Parity for
Legal Transportation and Recreational Activities Act." U.S. Reps introduced a
similar measure in the House, H.R.1749? Status?

I'm surprised "running" got looped into this (snowmobiling/horseback riding)
and I've not noted any outrage on this in Runner'sWorld or the like...have you?
I pay an outrageous amount of money to my lousy HMO (HIP) and can't believe
there's a possibility they would not honor medical costs derived out of some
unforseen running injury I might sustain. I gotta look at my fine print
pronto.

I think collectively we're missing the boat (runners). Sure we sustain some
injuries but on the whole and in the aggregate, I'd rather be in a Group Health
Care Insurance Policy comprised of runners than any craftsmen or engineers or
teachers. Why hasn't yet these groups like Running Club of America or whatever
that club's name is formed a group health insurance/hmo program yet?

Runners can organize in the throusands for clubs, races or discount buying
programs, why can't we do the same for acquring health insurance? Collectively
methinks our rates would be appreciably lower than they are in the pools/groups
we're in now. I have to acquire my insurance on the open market...and Last
time I went to see my physician for an annual check up...it seems to me I was
the person subsidizing the poor health specimens I saw in the waiting room,
that's for sure.

I really think an enterprising person can buy the mailing list from lots of
clubs and race events, comb through and find a 1/2 million or so runners to
form a health insurance buying group. Minimal standards/low bar. If you can
document you participate in 3 running events/year of at least 5K (of some
minimal certification/organization) you're a "runner". What would be really
slick is if the buying group had a "sliding scale" wherein the more you run,
the lower your monthly premium (to induce fitness).

I'm just wishful thinking. I pay almost $5,000/year for health insurance for
just me, one person. That's a damn joke...especially in light of all the
stuff I do to stay healthy (fish eating veg, non-smoker, active runner, etc.).
Now I might have to have legislation placed in law defend my ability to demand
my HMO pay for a running injury I might sustain? What my HMO should do i deny
payments for fees caused by clogged arteries or anything coming from fastfood!

[email hidden] (TopCounsel) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh c'mon, you've read the thousands of injury posts in here. Would you insure

you?

Yep. I have yet to consult a physician for a running-inflicted ailment despite
MANY years of running. Hey, if most people can get satisfactory answers on
here or by self-treating or reading the right references, why not? For the
most part, runners tend to be the more self-reliant type. The gravity of what
we AVOID by running far outweighs the significance of the occasional "injury."

True. Remember, we only hear the [censored] here, for every "injury
post" there's thousands of silent, happy, healthy, runners.

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was speaking to a fellow runner yesterday on a typical running trail who
mentioned he's not going to be running an upcoming marathon because he
"can't
afford to get injured". This gentleman was in his 50's and I knew he
worked,
however he later mentioned that his HMO has denied medical payments to
health
care providers for services relating to injuries sustained while/from
running.

This one is easy: Never, ever, tell the truth to:

a) Your insurance company
b) Your doctor

In this day and age being fully truthful with these people can get you
denied future insurance quicker than anything. Give them the minimal amount
of information needed to properly take care of you.

And, of course, always pay can when you can afford it, and always tell the
doctor to not write anything down he doesn't have to. Only give family
history when absolutely necessary to properly treat you, which is almost
never.

BG

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The gravity of what
we AVOID by running far outweighs the significance of the occasional
"injury."

Ain't that the truth. In fact I should get a damn discount. In my 20
years of running I have been to the doctor for some running problem
maybe 5 times and 15 wellness checkups. I'll bet they would love to have
everyone in the HMO like me(well physically, anyway).

-DF

Yeah but all the insurance companies want to do is rip everyone off. We need
to get El-zaquira or whatever his name is to go in and behead a couple
insurance execs, maybe then they'd quit stealing the people blind.

(Bethowmuch) said:

Yeah but all the insurance companies want to do is rip everyone off. We need
to get El-zaquira or whatever his name is to go in and behead a couple
insurance execs, maybe then they'd quit stealing the people blind.

Can I volunteer as an executioner? I always wanted to behead someone,
and to have them do it to me. Only who goes first?
But I read the brain stays conscious for 20 seconds after being
severed from the body, so you have 20 seconds to tell the head what
you've done, and show it it's body laying/kicking around there.

I've heard both ways. "Extreme sports" like parachuting and technical climbing
are often explicitly excluded from personal insurance of all kinds.
I dont know if adventure running falls into this category.

On the other hand I've heard of some companies that give wellness discounts
for those who maintain a certain level of aerobic exercise.

Lanceandrew said:

I was speaking to a fellow runner yesterday on a typical running trail who
mentioned he's not going to be running an upcoming marathon because he "can't
afford to get injured". This gentleman was in his 50's and I knew he worked,
however he later mentioned that his HMO has denied medical payments to health
care providers for services relating to injuries sustained while/from running.

Now I don't know what the future holds, and I don't know the details
about this friend's individual case and individual bizarre insurance
coverage, BUT... never in my entire career have I been asked whether
the circumstances of any injury/illness was related to athletics done as
personal choice. I get asked by insurers the circumstances of
illness/injury all the time, but ONLY as it pertains to whether it was a
workplace injury (as in "why are we paying for this when Workman's Comp
should be paying for this"😉 and whether it was an auto accident (as in
"why are we paying for this when No-Fault Auto Ins coverage should be
paying for this"😉.

I strongly doubt that care would not be covered for running injuries
because think of the extensions of this logic. Anything that you chose
to do yourself that wasn't necessary to do would not be covered? Well,
sex isn't necessary, it's a choice, so no coverage for Viagra, Birth
Control Pills, and pregnancy care. Straining your back moving furniture
or shoveling snow was a personal choice you could have avoided, so we
won't cover that. You caught cold & flu from your sick child? Well you
didn't have to have children in the first place and you should have
taught your 3 year old to cover her nose and mouth when coughing (yeah,
right), so your coverage is denied.

I'm not too worried about this.
-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

I'm not too worried about this.
-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse
_

appreciate your comments however you might be interested to learn (as you're in
ny state) there's been a lobbying effort to get our senators (clinton and
shumer) to support bill 423 which very much included _running_ by name, in
language.

http://www.abateny.org/leg/federal/healthcr.html

i don't think it's far-fetched at all to see some insurance companies seek to
have "marathoning" (not running per say but participating in a marathon) for
example lumped right in there w/other high risk endeavors not covered.

there are marathons every weekend in america and lots of people in every race
end up in the care of the on-site physicians, medical tents, etc.

Lanceandrew said:

i don't think it's far-fetched at all to see some insurance companies seek to
have "marathoning" (not running per say but participating in a marathon) for
example lumped right in there w/other high risk endeavors not covered.

At first glance this isn't as unreasonable as seems. Didn't an
article linked earlier say the risk of death during or soon after
a marathon is around 1-in-50,000?

The problem with that argument is that marathons isn't like, oh,
sky-diving. Sky-diver's don't train by jumping off 10-story
buildings every weekend, but to complete a marathon you have to
invest a substantial amount of time in significant aerobic
exercise over a long period of time.

(P.S., at the risk of being a grammar Nazi it's "per se", from
Latin. Said by someone who once spelled "voila" as "walla".)

Quoted message said:

there are marathons every weekend in america and lots of people in every race
end up in the care of the on-site physicians, medical tents, etc.

But almost nobody runs a marathon every week, and the ones who do
treat them as long training runs. Few people run more than two
marathons/year, and anyone who does will have a good grasp of
their own needs - they won't overhydrate, etc.

sky divers do train on landing, yet despite this it's common to hear of those
that break and ankle/leg in landing.

and the people that methinks die in marathons are the first timers, not the
experienced marathoners. lots of people don't learn of pre-existing
conditions until they stress their physiology/body.

wanna see a marathoner that's just dropped dead? 2 People died in the beijing
marathon last week.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-10/18/content_2105103.htm

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Lanceandrew) said:

ky divers do train on landing, yet despite this it's common to hear of those
that break and ankle/leg in landing.

and the people that methinks die in marathons are the first timers, not the
experienced marathoners. lots of people don't learn of pre-existing
conditions until they stress their physiology/body.

wanna see a marathoner that's just dropped dead? 2 People died in the
beijing
marathon last week.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-10/18/content_2105103.htm

Were they run over by tanks?

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

[email hidden] (Lanceandrew) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm just wishful thinking. I pay almost $5,000/year for health insurance for
just me, one person. That's a damn joke...especially in light of all the
stuff I do to stay healthy (fish eating veg, non-smoker, active runner, etc.).
Now I might have to have legislation placed in law defend my ability to demand
my HMO pay for a running injury I might sustain?

What legislation do you need besides that which enforces signed
contracts?

If you are not happy with an insurance policy, can't you negotiate
different terms?

Are the terms not clear in the policy? How can a contract change
without your consent?

Or are you merely complaining that an insurance package offered to you
is changing in its content from one year to another?

If they don't offer the coverage you want, can't you shop around?

(I don't live in the United States, so I don't know what kind of
communism you are dealing with).

Kaz Kylheku said:

What legislation do you need besides that which enforces signed
contracts?

You still need the terms to be spelled out and mutually agreeable.

Quoted message said:

If you are not happy with an insurance policy, can't you negotiate
different terms?

If you're an individual, you're lucky to find _any_ insurer
willing to underwrite a policy.

Quoted message said:

Are the terms not clear in the policy? How can a contract change
without your consent?

Because 1) the contracts have weasel words allowing them to make
such changes and 2) it's not remotely cost-effective for you to
challenge it.

Quoted message said:

If they don't offer the coverage you want, can't you shop around?

In practice, no. You may only have a single company offering
insurance coverage to individuals in your state. Even if there is
a law requiring all insurers to offer such insurance as a
condition of business, there's no law requiring that the rates be
reasonable.

Quoted message said:

(I don't live in the United States, so I don't know what kind of
communism you are dealing with).

It's incredibly broken and has absolutely no defenders other than
the people raking in the money. (That is, the insurance companies
and the politicians who get substantial campaign donations from
them.) Patients aren't happy with their health insurance being
decided by a beancounter and subject to massive change (and new
deductables, etc.) when they change jobs, doctors aren't happy
with the paperwork, delayed (and reduced) payments, etc.

Joshua Steinberg <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm not too worried about this.
-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

Nor am I Josh, but it was a MAGNIFICENT troll, was it not? Look at all
the suckers that replied... I rock!