Running and asthma

apusapus said:

For heaven's sake, the days of EIA limiting athletic performance are well behind us. Get thy
friend to a doctor of respiratory medicine. She'll be back placing in her age group within one
month of the establishment of an appropriate treatment regime.

Been there, done that. Best they can do....

Quoted message said:

What's next? "Please teach me how to injure myself"?

No, actually, I manage to do that quite well...

Any useful advice? Or is flaming the best you can do?

-Dondo

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Been there, done that. Best they can do....

I have *never* heard of anyone who *only* suffers from EIA failing to respond to the appropriate
medication. It can be a tricky task to discover the drug combination that works best, but any
half-competent specialist in respiratory medicine will get her there. If that's the best that her
present consultant can do, I suggest a change of consultant.

OTOH, if she has respiratory conditions of which you, she or her consultant are unaware...

The very LAST thing you should be doing is to attempt to de-motivate her. Asthma has a
psychological element. Self-belief and self-awareness are critically important in all forms of
disease management. She should always be working towards a goal, not looking back over her shoulder
at where she once was.

Roger.

apusapus said:

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The very LAST thing you should be doing is to attempt to de-motivate her. Asthma has a
psychological element. Self-belief and self-awareness are critically important in all forms of
disease management. She should always be working towards a goal, not looking back over her
shoulder at where she once was.

I agree. I am trying to "de-motivate" her in the sense that I want to her to see running as fun,
enjoyable, and thus encourage her to do more of it, irrespective of her absolute performance.

Currently, she's withdrawing from running because she no longer sees herself as competitive, and I
think that's wrong. She ought to try and recapture the fun of running rather than competing. That's
what I want to get her to see.

-Dondo

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree. I am trying to "de-motivate" her in the sense that I want to her to see running as fun,
enjoyable, and thus encourage her to do more of it, irrespective of her absolute performance.

Well then, my large plastic friend, what are *you* doing to assist? I always prefer leadership by
example. You still wrapped up in your competitive world, or are you prepared to take time out to
assist your friend on her new journey? I'm assuming that your friend means something to you i.e.
that she's worth all the effort this will entail.

Quoted message said:

Currently, she's withdrawing from running because she no longer sees herself as competitive, and I
think that's wrong.

Certainly is. If we only measure ourselves against others we're missing our biggest challenge -
beating yourself. It's not as silly as it sounds. Personal expectations can usually be beaten,
normally 'cause we set our aim rather low. She needs to set herself challenges, and recognise that
your perception of her isn't measured by 'who she beats' but by 'how she achieves'. Perhaps you both
need to work on this?

Quoted message said:

She ought to try and recapture the fun of running rather than competing. That's what I want to get
her to see.

Easiest way to do this is the 'complete change of environment' technique. That is, take her running
where she's never run before, preferably in a completely different terrain/environment. Let her set
the goals for the run. Let her choose the rewards for its completion. Be supportive without being
easy on her. Encourage her to work reasonably hard (but be alert for signs of respiratory failure -
always know where the local hospital is and how you'll get her there - understand the mechanisms of
asthma). Teach her to lead her sporting life in a different manner. To run where beauty exists. To
become part of the trail, rather than merely racing over it.

For most asthmatics - yup, I'm one - the pleasure of simply being able to run is more than
compensation for the loss of a competitive career. It hurts to begin with though; the loss of your
self-confidence as a [censored]-hot athletic marvel sure is painful. Once you've accepted your new
situation, your goals *do* change and life gets better. It's nice if you've got someone who's
prepared to run alongside you while you come to terms with events. That's your job, I think.

Roger.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:26:57 -0500, Captain Dondo <[email hidden]> wrote:

-Dondo

--

Quoted message said:

What am I on? 'm on my bike, o__ hours a day, busting my ass. ,>/'_ hat are you on? --Lance
Armstrong (_)\(_)

Sometimes I dream I'm Lance Armstrong, then I look down at my right testicle, and smile.

Quoted message said:

I've been trying to encourage her to change her view of running and cycling from the
ultra-competitive view she has held to one that's more recreational, run-for-the-fun-of-it kind
of thing.

Quoted message said:

This lady is tough as nails, she's doing what she can to deal with this. What I am looking for is
some "de-motivational" help - how do you shift your focus from running marathons and 10Ks, placing
in your age group, to barely being able to run 9-10 minute pace? Any way to make that fun?

How can I help someone through this transition?

Well, to be nice about it, either you have to change your outlook or leave her alone and get out of
her life altogether!

Why? I am highly a competitive person, who has allergies and asthma, the type that is worse than
excersize enduced, but I manage it. My doctor helps me. I am managing it well. I just finished the
NYC Marathon on Sunday. Guess What! So did my doctor! Your friend needs to be encouraged. You would
be a real friend to do so.

Steven

feel real good.

apusapus said:

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not looking for sympathy, medical advice, or anything like that. This lady is tough as nails,
she's doing what she can to deal with this. What I am looking for is some "de-motivational" help
- how do you shift your focus from running marathons and 10Ks, placing in your age group, to
barely being able to run 9-10 minute pace? Any way to make that fun?

[censored] WARNING: Roger never was, never will be, and never played a doctor on TV or in real life. His
advice is gained by info he/she/it gathers from the internet. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS TROLL!

apusapus said:

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Been there, done that. Best they can do....

I have *never* heard of anyone who *only* suffers from EIA failing to respond to the appropriate
medication. It can be a tricky task to discover the drug combination that works best, but any
half-competent specialist in respiratory medicine will get her there. If that's the best that her
present consultant can do, I suggest a change of consultant.

OTOH, if she has respiratory conditions of which you, she or her consultant are unaware...

The very LAST thing you should be doing is to attempt to de-motivate her. Asthma has a
psychological element. Self-belief and self-awareness are critically important in all forms of
disease management. She should always be working towards a goal, not looking back over her shoulder
at where she once was.

Roger.

apusapus said:

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree. I am trying to "de-motivate" her in the sense that I want to her to see running as fun,
enjoyable, and thus encourage her to do more of it, irrespective of her absolute performance.

Well then, my large plastic friend, what are *you* doing to assist? I always prefer leadership by
example. You still wrapped up in your competitive world, or are you prepared to take time out to
assist your friend on her new journey? I'm assuming that your friend means something to you i.e.
that she's worth all the effort this will entail.

Well, seeing as I'm married with children, and spending lots of time with another woman is not
necessarily the road to marital bliss, I'm somewhat socially limited in what I can do... But - we've
been riding bikes quite a bit, at her pace (which is still pretty darn fast). We're off this weekend
for a 100 mile bike ride, where I've encouraged her to ride with me - in spite of my buddies wanting
to "time trial" the event, we're going at a somewhat leisurely pace.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She ought to try and recapture the fun of running rather than competing. That's what I want to
get her to see.

Easiest way to do this is the 'complete change of environment' technique. That is, take her
running where she's never run before, preferably in a completely different terrain/environment.
Let her set the goals for the run. Let her choose the rewards for its completion. Be supportive
without being easy on her. Encourage her to work reasonably hard (but be alert for signs of
respiratory failure - always know where the local hospital is and how you'll get her there -
understand the mechanisms of asthma). Teach her to lead her sporting life in a different manner.
To run where beauty exists. To become part of the trail, rather than merely racing over it.

Yup. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do this - I'm not a road runner, though I
occasionally (a couple of times a year) do some trail running. I'm limited in my ability to run with
her, as, asthma and all, she can kick my ass when it comes to running. Perhaps that's all the
encouragement she needs - I can run with her so she can drop me at will
:-)

-Dondo

[censored] WARNING: Roger is not now, nor was he ever a runner in real life. His/her/it's advice is
strictly info gathered from Google searches. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS [censored]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

apusapus said:

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree. I am trying to "de-motivate" her in the sense that I want to her to see running as fun,
enjoyable, and thus encourage her to do more of it, irrespective of her absolute performance.

Well then, my large plastic friend, what are *you* doing to assist? I always prefer leadership by
example. You still wrapped up in your competitive world, or are you prepared to take time out to
assist your friend on her new journey? I'm assuming that your friend means something to you i.e.
that she's worth all the effort this will entail.

Quoted message said:

Currently, she's withdrawing from running because she no longer sees herself as competitive, and
I think that's wrong.

Certainly is. If we only measure ourselves against others we're missing our biggest challenge -
beating yourself. It's not as silly as it sounds. Personal expectations can usually be beaten,
normally 'cause we set our aim rather low. She needs to set herself challenges, and recognise that
your perception of her isn't measured by 'who she beats' but by 'how she achieves'. Perhaps you
both need to work on this?

Quoted message said:

She ought to try and recapture the fun of running rather than competing. That's what I want to
get her to see.

Easiest way to do this is the 'complete change of environment' technique. That is, take her running
where she's never run before, preferably in a completely different terrain/environment. Let her set
the goals for the run. Let her choose the rewards for its completion. Be supportive without being
easy on her. Encourage her to work reasonably hard (but be alert for signs of respiratory failure -
always know where the local hospital is and how you'll get her there - understand the mechanisms of
asthma). Teach her to lead her sporting life in a different manner. To run where beauty exists. To
become part of the trail, rather than merely racing over it.

For most asthmatics - yup, I'm one - the pleasure of simply being able to run is more than
compensation for the loss of a competitive career. It hurts to begin with though; the loss of your
self-confidence as a [censored]-hot athletic marvel sure is painful. Once you've accepted your new
situation, your goals *do* change and life gets better. It's nice if you've got someone who's
prepared to run alongside you while you come to terms with events. That's your job, I think.

Roger.

[censored] WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:54:21 -0000, "apusapus" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<WANKERESE DELETED>

Quoted message said:

Roger.

Captain Dondo said:

Let me begin by saying that I am not a runner (this is obvious from my sig...) but I have running
friends.

Quoted message said:

One, a particularly close friend, has recently developed excercise induced asthma. She's having a
very hard time dealing with this; she can no longer keep up with her running buddies and cannot
run long nor race.

Quoted message said:

I've been trying to encourage her to change her view of running and cycling from the
ultra-competitive view she has held to one that's more recreational, run-for-the-fun-of-it kind
of thing.

Quoted message said:

I'm not looking for sympathy, medical advice, or anything like that. This lady is tough as nails,
she's doing what she can to deal with this. What I am looking for is some "de-motivational" help -
how do you shift your focus from running marathons and 10Ks, placing in your age group, to barely
being able to run 9-10 minute pace? Any way to make that fun?

Quoted message said:

How can I help someone through this transition?

---Well, maybe she doesn't need to. I have exer.-enduced asthma. So does my training partner. We are
both far under 3 hours for the marathon. I just got proper medication from my doctor...Serevent
inhaler 30 minutes prior to hard workouts or races in cold/humid conditions. Andy Hass

Sorry bud, but I agree with Roger. In my humble opinion, exercise induced asthma doesn't exist.
Asthma, on the other hand, does. EIA is probably caused by the increased irritation of air /
allergens / toxins insulting the bronchial tree when somebody breathes faster and deeper when
running, thus causing acute exacerbation of uncontrolled asthma.

Two examples of runners with 'EIA'. Firstly - me. I used to have very bad asthma and couldn't run at
all. Firstly, I got my treatment regime sorted out. Secondly, I slowly built up my running, being
mindful of my asthma. Since taking up running, my asthma has improved beyond my, and my doctors
wildest expectations. Moral: just because life [censored] on you, it doesn't mean you can't bounce back.

Second example - Paula Radcliffe. Arguably the best runner in the world, who suffers from 'EIA' (OK
- maybe her salbutamol is performance enhancing, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt). Moral:
who says you can't be competitive with asthma?

I think firstly, she needs to see another doc to get her meds sorted out. Secondly, she needs to
educate herself about her asthma - know thyself and prevent the disease. Thirdly, she need to ease
back into running - don't push it at first - and soon she'll be back where she was before, probably
even better because the knows her lungs' capabilities that much better.

Asthma is a pain in the [censored], but many, many top athletes suffer from it. Me included.....
only kidding!!

Best wishes, Dave

--
To email, remove SPAM.com and replace with wadham DOT oxford DOT ac DOT uk

If you're trying to de-motivate her, have her read anything wriiten by you. I just got through your
post, and I've got to say that I'm as de-motivated as I've ever been.

Miss Anne Thrope said:

If you're trying to de-motivate her, have her read anything wriiten by you. I just got through
your post, and I've got to say that I'm as de-motivated as I've ever been.

Would that that lack of motivation applied to your trolling.

-Dondo

Captain Dondo said:

apusapus said:

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The very LAST thing you should be doing is to attempt to de-motivate her. Asthma has a
psychological element. Self-belief and self-awareness are critically important in all forms of
disease management. She should always be working towards a goal, not looking back over her
shoulder at where she once was.

I agree. I am trying to "de-motivate" her in the sense that I want to her to see running as fun,
enjoyable, and thus encourage her to do more of it, irrespective of her absolute performance.

Currently, she's withdrawing from running because she no longer sees herself as competitive, and I
think that's wrong. She ought to try and recapture the fun of running rather than competing.
That's what I want to get her to see.

She should treat EIA much as any other setback - it's something to work to overcome. Rare is the
elite athlete who doesn't get injured from time to time, but the common denominator is that they
all work as had at their recovery as they do at their other training. The ones who say, "eh, guess
I'm screwed, I'll drop out" don't last. Think about it:

EIA - Paula Radcliffe, and about 20% of the other elite athletes out there... and a _ton_ of elite
swimmers. (Chlorine). Cancer - Lance Armstrong, Peggy Flemming, many others HIV - Magic Johnson,
Greg Lougains, Rudy Galindo...

... the list goes on.

The odds are good that she can beat her EIA if she puts her mind to it. She needs to sit down,
figure out her current capabilities with EIA, and figure out a reasonable set of goals to work
towards, and consult the hell out of a good respiratory specialist. She can be competitive again,
and it's that competitive fire that should drive her to work at recovery. If that means running
9-10 minute miles for the next month, so be it - she should be out there running 9-10 minute miles
knowing that that's what it takes to get back to competition. It's the same things you have to do
when you get injured - therapy, recovery, and building back up to where you were before.

Giving up and becoming demotivated are exactly the wrong thing. You're right that it'll be easier
if she finds running at a slower pace fun, but whatever motivation helps her remain focused is
good. If that's "What lovely trees!", great, and if it's "I'm going to kick ass at next year's
<whatever> race," equally great.

-Dave

--
work: dga - at - lcs.mit.edu me: angio - at - pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
angio.netangio.netOpen ↗ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed...) bulk emailers: I do
not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

But then that's completely normal for you.

(Miss Anne Thrope) said:

If you're trying to de-motivate her, have her read anything wriiten by you. I just got through your
post, and I've got to say that I'm as de-motivated as I've ever been.

Quoted message said:

Ah! I had a firm grasp of the wrong end of the [censored].

An admission from an usenet masturbator.

I assumed you had

Quoted message said:

designs on the young lady. I see now that 'friend' meant 'friend'.

Quoted message said:

Two possibilities spring to mind.

Woman advice from a terminal virgin BAHAHAHAHAWAAAAAA.

"apusapus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Captain Dondo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Been there, done that. Best they can do....

I have *never* heard of anyone who *only* suffers from EIA failing to respond to the appropriate
medication. It can be a tricky task to discover the drug combination that works best,

So doctor how about some advice.

Quoted message said:

The very LAST thing you should be doing is to attempt to de-motivate her. Asthma has a
psychological element. Self-belief and self-awareness are critically important in all forms of
disease management.

All hail doctor fraser BAAAAHAAAAAWAAAAA. Almost as real as Dr Dolittle.