running 300 miles w/o stopping?

rick++ wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Story of another extreme runner in this week's Time:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029875,00.html
The known record is 262 miles. (Some Tibetan monks rumored further.)

This is without stopping right? It doesn't say anything about walking. It's
certainly impressive, but other than impressing people with his biggie ego
what the hell is the point? It's like some climber who picks an obscure peak
in waziristan and goes for the speed ascent record or something - who the
hell cares. IMO If you're gonna do that kind of stuff, just do it for
yourself and for 'play' and spare the rest of us having to hear about it.

This sort of 'record' or whatever you might call it has nothing of the real
interest of say the fastest traverse of the AT. This guy couldn't win
badwater so he has to come up with another stunt in his bid to be "the ultra
of the ultramarathoners" as that article says.

To me none of these modern supported adventures will ever match the like of
the apache of lore covering vast distances while living off the land.

-Tony

17.17 minute miles
2.86 m.p.h.
must of had some sleep time to do in 75 hours 263 miles

under 18 minute miles
get a metal.

for a monk I don't think he was in a state of mind. were we would know
of.

as for a banker from Pittsburgh to phillie now sells food.

well i know were all my money got lost too.
truly dred......
truly dred......
fu w

biker's .

Tony said:

rick++ wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Story of another extreme runner in this week's Time:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029875,00.html
The known record is 262 miles. (Some Tibetan monks rumored further.)

This is without stopping right? It doesn't say anything about walking. It's
certainly impressive, but other than impressing people with his biggie ego
what the hell is the point? It's like some climber who picks an obscure peak
in waziristan and goes for the speed ascent record or something - who the
hell cares. IMO If you're gonna do that kind of stuff, just do it for
yourself and for 'play' and spare the rest of us having to hear about it.

This sort of 'record' or whatever you might call it has nothing of the real
interest of say the fastest traverse of the AT. This guy couldn't win
badwater

ummmm ... yes he could. First overall 2004, first male 2003. So at least
in the ultra running scene, he does have some solid creds to back up the
chest-thumping.

But the article's pretty silly. The reason that it's possible for a woman
to win the event is that the male field doesn't have much depth, and races
that long are fairly unpredictable (so if the top man has a bad race, the top
woman could quite possibly beat him, because there aren't half a dozen other
men a minute or two behind).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Tony said:

rick++ wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Story of another extreme runner in this week's Time:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029875,00.html
The known record is 262 miles. (Some Tibetan monks rumored further.)

This sort of 'record' or whatever you might call it has nothing of the real
interest of say the fastest traverse of the AT.

But is that more interesting than, say, the first running (ok, they
probably walked a little) winter traverse of the WS100 route
(approximate - some minor re-routing for winter conditions, as I
understand it). What was amazing to me is how closely they were able to
estimate their arrival time at the end.

This guy couldn't win

Quoted message said:

badwater

You might want to check 2004 results
http://www.badwater.com/results.html

where 2 of my other heroes (Monica and Pam) finished 3rd and 4th to
Dean's 1st.

so he has to come up with another stunt in his bid to be "the ultra

Quoted message said:

of the ultramarathoners" as that article says.

Dean K. doesn't have anything to prove to anyone, imnsho. He already has
a resume that borders on unbelievable. He's one of those purists that
ran the southpole marathon without snowshoes because it was a running
race, not a ss race.
http://www.ultramarathonman.com/

Admittedly, the outpouring of articles in non-running rags and some
running rags nationwide in the past couple months does seem to be
publicity for his book. But, heck, I'll buy it. Not only is Dean one of
those admirable runners, but he writes well also - not a ghost writer,
at least that's my understanding. He writes in TR and I thought I saw an
article in UR, but could be wrong.

Quoted message said:

To me none of these modern supported adventures will ever match the like of
the apache of lore covering vast distances while living off the land.

I agree. But they're different goals. Look at the distances that people
migrated in the past, obviously living off the land because that's all
there was.

But why do people run races at all.

Dot
long-time Dean K. fan 🙂

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

I've really grown to dislike the word "extreme". Moronic has just as
many letters, and usually means the same thing..........I've switched to
that.

Dot said:

Tony said:

rick++ wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Story of another extreme runner in this week's Time:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029875,00.html
The known record is 262 miles. (Some Tibetan monks rumored further.)

snip...

Quoted message said:

so he has to come up with another stunt in his bid to be "the ultra

Quoted message said:

of the ultramarathoners" as that article says.

Dean K. doesn't have anything to prove to anyone, imnsho. He already has
a resume that borders on unbelievable. He's one of those purists that
ran the southpole marathon without snowshoes because it was a running
race, not a ss race.
http://www.ultramarathonman.com/

Devils advocate here...

Clearly, I think he is trying to prove something, as he
considers it "destiny." A potentially dangerous attitude
IMO since pushing too far beyond physiological limits is
not a very sound endurance strategy (and I don't buy this
stuff about better "genes," not at that distance, or his
merely being "curious" about how far he can go before he's
stopped in his tracks.) I see similar sorts of people not
infrequently, whether runners, climbers, or distance hikers
trying to set some new endurance/time record. Mentally and
physically they're usually a bit wacked out (quite a bit),
dehydrated, on the edge of sanity, often lose track of
reality (if not hallucinatory) and generally egotistically,
rather than altruistically, motivated. Falling asleep while
doing these stunts is perhaps more dangerous and will happen.
Of course they seem to enjoy it.

Quoted message said:

Admittedly, the outpouring of articles in non-running rags and some
running rags nationwide in the past couple months does seem to be
publicity for his book.

ya think 😉

Quoted message said:

But, heck, I'll buy it. Not only is Dean one of
those admirable runners,

Admirable might be if he did it for charity and raised
$1000 per mile to help sick kids, regardless of some
record.

Quoted message said:

but he writes well also - not a ghost writer,
at least that's my understanding. He writes in TR and I thought I saw an
article in UR, but could be wrong.

Quoted message said:

To me none of these modern supported adventures will ever match the like of
the apache of lore covering vast distances while living off the land.

I agree. But they're different goals. Look at the distances that people
migrated in the past, obviously living off the land because that's all
there was.

But why do people run races at all.

Ego, something to prove? Perhaps the question is
what does this prove besides a new record and
ability to sell a few books? At least the plains
indians had sustainable pragmatic goals and no
book deals.

I've often wondered what people like Bob Marshall
were trying to prove. Then again his pyschology
seems somewhat simpler: he apparently just enjoyed
long endurance treks in his altruistic goals and
pursuits.

Tony' qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:

It's
certainly impressive, but other than impressing people with his biggie ego
what the hell is the point?

<gratuitous violence on>
The same could be said of doing 10hr training runs.
<GBH off>

Tony wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

snip<
This sort of 'record' or whatever you might call it has nothing of the real
interest of say the fastest traverse of the AT. This guy couldn't win
badwater so he has to come up with another stunt in his bid to be "the

ultra

Quoted message said:

of the ultramarathoners" as that article says.

As others have pointed out, he did win badwater - but that doesnt change my
opinion of this 300 miles without stopping stunt.

-T

Tom Phillips wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

snip<

Quoted message said:

Admittedly, the outpouring of articles in non-running rags and some
running rags nationwide in the past couple months does seem to be
publicity for his book.

ya think 😉

Quoted message said:

But, heck, I'll buy it. Not only is Dean one of
those admirable runners,

Admirable might be if he did it for charity and raised
$1000 per mile to help sick kids, regardless of some
record.

Actually this is a great point. It really just seems like Dean is tooting
his own horn a bit too much. Ego goes with the territory but the mainstream
media coverage is over the top.

-T

steve common wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tony' qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:

It's
certainly impressive, but other than impressing people with his biggie ego
what the hell is the point?

<gratuitous violence on>
The same could be said of doing 10hr training runs.

Nothing wrong with that if you don't feel the need to tell the whole world
about it...

-T

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tony said:

rick++ wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Story of another extreme runner in this week's Time:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029875,00.html
The known record is 262 miles. (Some Tibetan monks rumored further.)

This sort of 'record' or whatever you might call it has nothing of the

real

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

interest of say the fastest traverse of the AT.

But is that more interesting than, say, the first running (ok, they
probably walked a little) winter traverse of the WS100 route
(approximate - some minor re-routing for winter conditions, as I
understand it). What was amazing to me is how closely they were able to
estimate their arrival time at the end.

This guy couldn't win

Quoted message said:

badwater

You might want to check 2004 results
http://www.badwater.com/results.html

I take back that as a motivating factor. I saw some other article about Dean
recently and it must have referenced the 2003 results. I'm sure I saw this
year's result in Ultrarunning, but I don't pay much attention to every top
runner.

Quoted message said:

where 2 of my other heroes (Monica and Pam) finished 3rd and 4th to
Dean's 1st.

so he has to come up with another stunt in his bid to be "the ultra

Quoted message said:

of the ultramarathoners" as that article says.

Dean K. doesn't have anything to prove to anyone, imnsho. He already has
a resume that borders on unbelievable. He's one of those purists that
ran the southpole marathon without snowshoes because it was a running
race, not a ss race.
http://www.ultramarathonman.com/

My point wasn't that he's a wanna-be or an unknown, but that it's just a
kind of random (and to me) pointless 'record' - this 300 mile nonstop run.
While it's great for people to be pushing the limits and being active all
over the planet in countless ways, many of the these extreme adventurers are
doing things that are chosen to be noteworthy, to stand out, even if they're
very obscure - so they can say they were the first, that nobody has ever
done this particular thing before or faster. To me this is such a stunt.

Quoted message said:

Admittedly, the outpouring of articles in non-running rags and some
running rags nationwide in the past couple months does seem to be
publicity for his book. But, heck, I'll buy it. Not only is Dean one of
those admirable runners, but he writes well also - not a ghost writer,
at least that's my understanding. He writes in TR and I thought I saw an
article in UR, but could be wrong.

Quoted message said:

To me none of these modern supported adventures will ever match the like

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the apache of lore covering vast distances while living off the land.

I agree. But they're different goals. Look at the distances that people
migrated in the past, obviously living off the land because that's all
there was.

I'm just saying there are truely noteworthy records, then there are more
obscure records, and then there are stunts. That's a truely hard stunt, but
I don't want to hear about it until after he's done it if at all. It reminds
me of those football players saying what they're going to do ahead of time -
even if they back it up most people would wish they'd just shut up.

Quoted message said:

But why do people run races at all.

To escape for a very brief time from the matrix.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

Dot
long-time Dean K. fan 🙂

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

Why do it? I guess to prove it can be done and he the guy to do it.

But why is it less of an accomplishment if he does it in silence?

Tony qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:

steve common wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tony' qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:

It's
certainly impressive, but other than impressing people with his biggie ego
what the hell is the point?

<gratuitous violence on>
The same could be said of doing 10hr training runs.

Nothing wrong with that if you don't feel the need to tell the whole world
about it...

-T

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

But the article's pretty silly. The reason that it's possible for a woman
to win [Badwater] is that the male field doesn't have much depth, and
races
that long are fairly unpredictable (so if the top man has a bad race, the
top
woman could quite possibly beat him, because there aren't half a dozen
other
men a minute or two behind).

I think women also have an advantage in conditions of extreme heat, due to
lower bmi (eg, 5'6" 115 lbs vs. a 5'10 160 lb guy) and better skin
vascularization (better convective cooling).

-- Dan

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Story of another extreme runner in this week's Time:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029875,00.html
The known record is 262 miles. (Some Tibetan monks rumored further.)

Karnazes did 262 miles in 75 hours... (83.84 miles/day)

But Yiannis Kouros ran 637 miles in 6 days (106.2 miles/day) in New York on
5/26/88. On the way, he covered 253 miles in the first 48 hours. Both of
these are world records.

Puts him at about 77% wava, roughly (using 340 miles for Kouros' split at
72h, and that's charitable). When I was 80% wava in the marathon in the
early 80's, I was about 1000th on the national rankings.

So he's a good runner, in the top 1%, but not world class by a longshot.

-- Dan

Tony said:

Tom Phillips wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Admirable might be if he did it for charity and raised
$1000 per mile to help sick kids, regardless of some
record.

Actually this is a great point. It really just seems like Dean is tooting
his own horn a bit too much. Ego goes with the territory but the mainstream
media coverage is over the top.

I'm not sure how much is him instigating it or some mainstream media
picked it up somewhere and ran with it. Let's face it: the US needs some
clean sports heroes right now.

http://www.ultramarathonman.com/charity.php

In San Francisco Chronicle article
"Karnazes increasingly devotes himself to promoting one of his favorite
causes, organ donation. His epic, 262- mile run raised pledges of $5,000
for Organs 'R' Us, a medical charity."

You might also read this interview and dialog at the bottom. This is
more typical
http://runtrails.blogspot.com/2005/02/interview-with-dean-karnazes.html

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

Tony said:

Dot wrote in message ...

My point wasn't that he's a wanna-be or an unknown, but that it's just a
kind of random (and to me) pointless 'record' - this 300 mile nonstop run.

Isn't that what 99% of Guinness World Records are?

Quoted message said:

While it's great for people to be pushing the limits and being active all
over the planet in countless ways, many of the these extreme adventurers are
doing things that are chosen to be noteworthy, to stand out, even if they're
very obscure - so they can say they were the first, that nobody has ever
done this particular thing before or faster. To me this is such a stunt.

I'm just saying there are truely noteworthy records, then there are more
obscure records, and then there are stunts.

But who's to decide what what's noteworthy, obscure, or stunt? Some of
the things that people rant and rave about here, I'm clueless about and
they're never mentioned in the other running groups. OTOH, things that
people rant and rave about in the other running groups, people here
wonder "huh?".

That's a truely hard stunt, but

Quoted message said:

I don't want to hear about it until after he's done it if at all. It reminds
me of those football players saying what they're going to do ahead of time -
even if they back it up most people would wish they'd just shut up.

I agree, but the primary reason I was aware of it (300-mi run) is these
online running groups - never directly popped up in my usual reading. I
think the media have blown some things up.

FWIW, someone in another group who knows Dean, indicated "he is actually
a lighthearted and very amusing guy, who doesn't take himself all that
seriously" - with respect to that article. That's consistent with Dean's
own writing style, which is a dry humor when recounting adventure runs.
His training articles are matter of fact.

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

Tom Phillips said:

Dot wrote:

Devils advocate here...

You guys are just jealous 😉

<some of this other stuff would be answered by one of my other responses
- got backwards in which I answered first>

I see similar sorts of people not

Quoted message said:

infrequently, whether runners, climbers, or distance hikers
trying to set some new endurance/time record. Mentally and
physically they're usually a bit wacked out (quite a bit),
dehydrated, on the edge of sanity, often lose track of
reality (if not hallucinatory) and generally egotistically,
rather than altruistically, motivated. Falling asleep while
doing these stunts is perhaps more dangerous and will happen.
Of course they seem to enjoy it.

I agree to some extent, although I don't think they're as wacked out as
you think. OTOH, considering some things that Alaskans do, it might just
be a matter of perspective 😉 Consider that our best known sporting
event is the Iditarod, then there's people that decided they should try
to run, bike, or ski the route.

Seriously though, the combination of redline attitude and inexperience
with the distance and weather conditions can be truly dangerous. Ye old
saying that the brain is the first thing to go when hypothermic is so
often ignored. (an incident occurred this weekend in a 100-miler but I
don't know the details)

Record-setting pushes can be equivalent to get-home-itis in pilots.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree. But they're different goals. Look at the distances that people
migrated in the past, obviously living off the land because that's all
there was.

But why do people run races at all.

Ego, something to prove?

Were you referring to the general question? A lot of people run races
for the cameraderie, logistical support, etc. Some do run them for money
or ego.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps the question is
what does this prove besides a new record and
ability to sell a few books?

If referring to the 300-mi attempt. I think it's just that. He ran 262
miles on rolling terrain in rain and thinks that 300 mi would be
possible on flatter course, even though it would be boring. Wouldn't you
be even a little bit curious to find out whether you could run 300 mi,
if you had already run 262 mi? I know I'd be. Actually, the 262 did
involve some stopping to change.

Even if you're not curious, it's just the find-a-flatter course so I can
BQ or PR at a larger scale 😉

Quoted message said:

At least the plains
indians had sustainable pragmatic goals and no
book deals.

Hey, I've heard the aid stations at ultras are pretty well stocked. I
mean everybody knows that food comes from grocery stores, not from the
ground 😉

Quoted message said:

I've often wondered what people like Bob Marshall
were trying to prove.

Up here they're generally called long work days 🙂
I also think he was an intensely curious person and wanted to learn more
about ecology where he was.
(Although you're referring to something else.)

I'm sure you've experienced it in your own stuff - x amount of work
needs to get done in y amount of time. Only so many hours in a day, so
many days between snow cover, only a couple years of funding in a project.

Then again his pyschology

Quoted message said:

seems somewhat simpler: he apparently just enjoyed
long endurance treks in his altruistic goals and
pursuits.

That too. He was lucky to get paid for something he enjoyed. His book
Arctic Village is really interesting reading. One of my study areas is
not too far from Wiseman where he spent a lot of time.

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

Tony said:

Tom Phillips wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

snip<

Quoted message said:

Admittedly, the outpouring of articles in non-running rags and some
running rags nationwide in the past couple months does seem to be
publicity for his book.

ya think 😉

Quoted message said:

But, heck, I'll buy it. Not only is Dean one of
those admirable runners,

Admirable might be if he did it for charity and raised
$1000 per mile to help sick kids, regardless of some
record.

Actually this is a great point. It really just seems like Dean is tooting
his own horn a bit too much. Ego goes with the territory but the mainstream
media coverage is over the top.

-T

Over the top? No, rather par for the course.
Media coverage is always about ego. Don't have
something to sell or promote? The media won't
cover it. There's a reason they cover big name
athletes and never the Special Olympics kids...

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

Dot wrote:

Devils advocate here...

You guys are just jealous 😉

Yep, that's it. If only I could run all day every
day 🙂

Quoted message said:

<some of this other stuff would be answered by one of my other responses
- got backwards in which I answered first>

I see similar sorts of people not

Quoted message said:

infrequently, whether runners, climbers, or distance hikers
trying to set some new endurance/time record. Mentally and
physically they're usually a bit wacked out (quite a bit),
dehydrated, on the edge of sanity, often lose track of
reality (if not hallucinatory) and generally egotistically,
rather than altruistically, motivated. Falling asleep while
doing these stunts is perhaps more dangerous and will happen.
Of course they seem to enjoy it.

I agree to some extent, although I don't think they're as wacked out as
you think.

I meant the ones I have personally met while engaged
in their endeavor. They were all pretty wacked. One
guy did fall asleep and nearly went off the side of
a fourteener (for a peak bagging record, of course.)
Another one hallucinated while on a vertical climb,
while another record trekker babbled incessantly like
he was on amphetamines and remembered things he didn't
actually do (I suppose it could have been the Power
Bars?) A couple others I've encountered (mountain
runners, one a noted marathon winner) ended up seriously
injured. If not the power bar diet I _suppose_ it could
be the elevation, or the water :^)

OTOH, considering some things that Alaskans do, it might just

Quoted message said:

be a matter of perspective 😉 Consider that our best known sporting
event is the Iditarod, then there's people that decided they should try
to run, bike, or ski the route.

Seriously though, the combination of redline attitude and inexperience
with the distance and weather conditions can be truly dangerous. Ye old
saying that the brain is the first thing to go when hypothermic is so
often ignored. (an incident occurred this weekend in a 100-miler but I
don't know the details)

Record-setting pushes can be equivalent to get-home-itis in pilots.

AKer's are of course excused for obvious reasons 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree. But they're different goals. Look at the distances that people
migrated in the past, obviously living off the land because that's all
there was.

But why do people run races at all.

Ego, something to prove?

Were you referring to the general question? A lot of people run races
for the cameraderie, logistical support, etc. Some do run them for money
or ego.

No, just to Dean K. I'm no judge of motive. Just
speculating. But media attention tends to gravitate
to those to are promoting something...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps the question is
what does this prove besides a new record and
ability to sell a few books?

If referring to the 300-mi attempt. I think it's just that. He ran 262
miles on rolling terrain in rain and thinks that 300 mi would be
possible on flatter course, even though it would be boring. Wouldn't you
be even a little bit curious to find out whether you could run 300 mi,
if you had already run 262 mi? I know I'd be. Actually, the 262 did
involve some stopping to change.

I don't think I'd be interested in Doug's mileages 🙂

I would think one would have to stop. I mean, the guy's
gotta pee (and maybe walk a little?)

Quoted message said:

Even if you're not curious, it's just the find-a-flatter course so I can
BQ or PR at a larger scale 😉

But isn't that ego?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

At least the plains
indians had sustainable pragmatic goals and no
book deals.

Hey, I've heard the aid stations at ultras are pretty well stocked. I
mean everybody knows that food comes from grocery stores, not from the
ground 😉

And I thought all you AKers went out and bagged your
own caribou? No?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've often wondered what people like Bob Marshall
were trying to prove.

Up here they're generally called long work days 🙂
I also think he was an intensely curious person and wanted to learn more
about ecology where he was.
(Although you're referring to something else.)

Referring to his preservation efforts. Two sides
of the same coin perhaps.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure you've experienced it in your own stuff - x amount of work
needs to get done in y amount of time. Only so many hours in a day, so
many days between snow cover, only a couple years of funding in a project.

I think he did it for sheer enjoyment. I do it
because I'm impatient.

Quoted message said:

Then again his pyschology

Quoted message said:

seems somewhat simpler: he apparently just enjoyed
long endurance treks in his altruistic goals and
pursuits.

That too. He was lucky to get paid for something he enjoyed. His book
Arctic Village is really interesting reading. One of my study areas is
not too far from Wiseman where he spent a lot of time.

Dot

Not lucky he died in his 30s. People have wondered
(or wondered at the time) if his marathon treks
were cause and effect. But if I remember he died
on a train from a massive MI.